My first e-bike (Turbo Creo SL Comp Evo)

[Deacon Blues]

Most of my rides range from 40 to 70 km. The Vado has no problem covering that distance. As for human output on the hills, I'm in good enough shape that I can produce the needed 'human' watts, but, to be honest, I don't want to any more.
This is a personal thing, and even though I can still get up those hills on my 18 pound Defy I'd rather not. To me it is all about enjoying the ride.

 

[e-levity]

I'm still not sure how much boost the Creo puts out?...
Some docs say 180% boost. I take this as meaning if I put in 100w then the bike supplies an additional 180w.
Other sources say '2x you' which could mean the above or it could mean that you put in 100w to get an additional 100w...

From the Specialized web site: "The lightweight SL 1.1 motor doubles your effort with as much as 240 watts of silent and powerful assistance to amplify your ride."

The Support Level power settings are multiplication factors, and the Peak Power settings determine the upper limit that the motor will supply using that multiplication factor. For the Creo (and Levo SL) this means that if you set Peak Power to 100% you can get up to ~240 watts additional power at any Support Level if you put enough power.

Examples: If you set Turbo Support Level at 100% the motor will provide twice the power you put in (multiplication factor 2:1). At 120 watt rider input the motor will max out at 240 watts giving 360 watts total. Further power has to come from you - if you put in 240 watts the total will be 600 watts (360+240). If you set the Support Level to 50% the multiplication factor is 1:1 so at a Peak Power setting of 100% you will have to put in 240 watts to get the motor to deliver a full 240 watts. The total, 480 watts, is less than if you set the Support Level to 100%. If you set Peak Power levels less than 100% motor output will be limited to that fraction of 240 watts. If you set Eco to 25% and limit Peak Power to 25% you will have a multiplication factor of 0.5:1 up to a maximum assistance of 60 watts which is achieved once you provide 120 watts..

Hope this is helpful.

 

[rob_s]

So this is why I'm confused.
According to Captain Slow, putting in 100w gets a max 100w boost. He says this from experience of owning a Creo.
From the above example of e-levity, putting in 100w gets a max 200w boost.

 

[darlingbastard]

I was also under the impression the creo only doubled your power at max assistance. The official copy plastered on retailer sites seems to indicate only 100%.

“The lightweight SL 1.1 motor doubles your effort with as much as 240 watts of silent and powerful assistance to amplify your ride”

 

[Stefan Mikes]

The lightweight SL 1.1 motor doubles your effort

I think @Captain Slow knows it better. Doubling your effort means you put in 100 W and the motor gives 100 W making 200 W altogether. Your effort is doubled.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I meant you own and ride the Creo, Captain. Mr. e-levity is a Vado rider and he tries to figure out the information from the Specialized website. My understanding of "doubling the effort" is the same as yours. Yes, if the rider is very strong, he might input 240 W and have his effort doubled to 480 W with the equal power from the motor.

 

[arnoldc]

So this is why I'm confused.
According to Captain Slow, putting in 100w gets a max 100w boost. He says this from experience of owning a Creo.
From the above example of e-levity, putting in 100w gets a max 200w boost.

e-levity is right. One has to understand the settings, i.e., profile too. The default is 35/35, 60/60, 100/100 and that's the reason why I made two custom profiles. I have not used the default one since making the custom ones. I use custom 1 when our ride is mostly flat and I want to maximize the battery. I used custom 2 on my last 104 km ride with very long (20++ km ) ascents, in Sport.

I have not used Turbo with my Evo, I experienced it only when I test rode the S-Works Creo SL prior to my purchase.

 

[e-levity]

... Mr. e-levity is a Vado rider and he tries to figure out the information from the Specialized website...

Mr. e-levity is also a Levo SL rider. The Levo SL has the same motor as the Creo SL so he has experience with power delivery from the SL 1.1 motor.

In addition, he has used BLEvo riding a Levo to monitor rider and motor power levels and confirm the multiplication factor.


I understand that the wording Specialized uses can be somewhat confusing and could be made clearer.
Here's part of reply from Specialized Rider Care to a similar question raised on the emtb forum.

Mission Control - Understanding Support vs Peak Power in Mission Control App v2.0

Hi Specialized I have a 2019 Turbo Levo. I'm wanting clarification of Support vs Peak Power plse. Have read forum answers where I can and I think I've established that at 100% Support and 100% Peak Power, with a 500w battery, say rider input of 100 watts then bike will deliver 320w (3.2 x...

www.emtbforums.com

Specialized Rider care reply:

Support = the multiplier of rider power added by the motor
Peak Power = maximum electrical power available to supply the motor

In terms of support, each e-Bike motor is slightly different. 100% on the slider means 4.1x rider power for 2019 Levo...

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Oh, Mr. @e-levity,

Support = 100% * rider power added by the motor.
Rider power = 100 W.
Support = 100% * 100 W = 100 W added by the motor.

Turbo Levo is very much differently tuned than Turbo Creo. The only proof would be available if @Captain Slow used BLEvo.

 

[e-levity]

OK, here's a simple test you can try to convince yourself.

1. Activate Mission Control on your phone and go to the LET'S RIDE icon.
2. Click on the STATS menu at the top and set two windows to report RIDER POWER and MOTOR POWER (just press and hold a window to see choices).
3. While riding compare the two readings with your Tune Settings.

For example if you set Eco to 50% Support & 50% Peak Power you should observe that Motor Power is similar to Rider Power (i.e., 1X additional power)
If you set the Support and Peak Levels to 100% you should see Motor Power twice the Rider Power (i.e., the bike motor "doubles your effort").
Intermediate Support and Peak Settings will give corresponding proportional values.
This is what I see riding my Levo SL which uses the same motor and battery as the Creo SL.
(By the way, the max power output of my Levo SL is reported as ~300 watts, and I can get this with only 150 watt input )

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Let @Captain Slow do it

 

[arnoldc]

Part of the various statistics coming from the TCU are the rider power and motor power. However, I don't use the Mission Control app and I believe the motor power is not broadcasted via ANT+ to my Garmin.

I bought the BLEvo app as I see the fantastic statistics it provides.

For Garmin users with Connect IQ, the ebike Connect IQ data field can expose the motor power if you pay the author a small amount. I intend to do so.

 

[BrianC]

Hello fellow riders. I'm fortunate enough to have both a 2019 Turbo Levo, that has given me a new lease of MTB life, and very recently a Creo SL Evo. I'd like to acquire a 650B wheelset for that bike. Any experiences with that? What is the maximum size that can fitted? I've read 47 mm in several places, but also 54 mm.

 

[NBS]

I can’t answer your question, but since you have both the Creo and the Levo maybe you can answer one of mine . I have a Creo, and have friends that have new Levos and Vados and want to join me in a road ride. Usually they are slower than me, and I know that bike is heavier so I was thinking of riding my regular road bike. But I also know both the Levo and Vado have much bigger batteries than the Creo. Any idea of what is a realistic comparison? I do need to put in a fair bit of effort on my Creo to keep up with faster riders but I don’t expect they will want to put in that much work. On my regular road bike with a reasonable effort I would expect to be about the same pace as on the Creo in eco (although Creo would be less effort). No idea what that would mean on a Vado or Levo

 

[Stefan Mikes]

How long distances do you cover @NBS on the Creo, at what speed, in what terrain and weather conditions?

 

[arnoldc]

Because of the lockdown, I have not been riding real roads lately and boredom kicked in.

I changed the Evo wheelset to a disc road type (from my TCR Advanced) using adapters. Tires are tubeless Giant Gavia SL 700x25C.

Then I realized I can't test them...

 

[NBS]

The answer to that all depends on the weather and who I am riding with, but we have had a lot of wind so far this season, and there is a always a lot of climbing. I live on the benches heading up to a couple of ski resorts, so even if I don't climb those canyons, the flattest ride I can find always involves some climbing just to get back and forth from where I live. I recently did a 49.5 mile ride with 3,800 ft climbing @ avg 17 mph, riding with a fast friend and working hard, mostly in eco but in sport on the steepest sections and near the end when I was tired. On a recent 32 mile ride with 3,100 ft of climbing (about 5 miles @ 8%) ridden at a much more comfortable pace I only averaged 14 mph. On a 15 mile "noodle around the neighborhood" ride with 1,000 ft of climbing on a super windy day entirely in eco but with a bare minimum amount of effort from me, I averaged only 12 mph, absolutely no faster than I would have been on my regular bike at that effort, and possibly slower (slower than usual but it was crazy windy so hard to tell). Given that the Creo is a good 50% heavier than my road bike I am starting to believe that when eco is set to the default 35% assist it is mostly just making up for the extra weight I am pushing on the bike so I don't go that much faster, just can get away with less effort. The ride I am considering doing with my eBiking buddies on my non e-bike is 37 miles but only 850 ft climbing and I would expect to easily average 15 mph without undue effort. If my friends weren't on eBikes they would probably be closer to 11-12 mph

 

[arnoldc]

Arnold are those adaptors you made or can they be purchased? What are the specs on the TCR Advanced i.e. is that QR with 100/130 mm spacing or say thru axle with 100/142? I'd really like to find a cost effective way to get a 2nd set of wheels for my Creo.

The adaptors I got from a source in China, arrived before our turn for lockdown. Yes thru axle, both hubs are 12mm already, rear is 142 and front is 100. The hubs are Novatec, it's got lots of conversions available, in fact they were QR before.

 

[arnoldc]

Would you mind sending a link for those adaptors? It's easy to find wheels that are 100x112 and 142x12 so if I got the adaptors first then I could look for wheels.

Thanks

Link to the supplier? I don't have a direct link, they're a listing on a South East Asia online shop called Lazada which has a local listing for every country like Malaysia, Singapore, and the Philippines. I think you'll have success with Aliexpress instead.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@NBS in case of your group ride with friends riding Vados and Levos, all depends on how fit and strong your friends are (I assume you are a sporty person yourself). If they use a lot of motor assistance, their larger batteries will dry up soon, especially on the climbing. I think only a real group ride can yield a true answer.