Turbo Creo 2 Comp E5 (aluminum) is out, is a Vado SL 2 next?

[Stefan Mikes]

Well but that doesn't explain the relative difference between the two.

Maybe the real question is, why is the Creo 2 Comp (carbon) in Europe 'cheap' at 6,000 EUR (incl. VAT) compared to 6,500 USD (excl. sales tax)?

Edit: Across the board the price in $ is higher than in EUR. 9k vs 8.5 for the Expert; 14k vs 13 for the S-Works. But then for the E5 the roles are reversed... So seems like bad value for us Europoors. I find it interesting.

Although we do not know what's happening behind the scenes in the corporation, I can only guess road and gravel e-bikes are not really popular in Europe because of the speed restriction of 25 km/h.

 

[jabberwocky]

On the Turbo Creo 2 Comp E5, I see that the shifters (and brakes) are SRAM Apex mechanical. I have never used any SRAM shifters. One of my cycling buddies says that the Apex are the lowest-end shifters SRAM makes, are mushy, troublesome, and non-intuitive to use (the double tap). Has anyone used these, and do you agree? I was pretty bummed to hear this...I am spoiled having Ultegra on my current (non-e) road bike, but I'm really only riding that on the smart trainer these days; on the road I'm riding my Kona Dew-e DL. I'm not super picky about things like this normally, but if I do decide to pursue this bike, I would hate to end up with unusable shifters.

I don't have direct experience with Apex but its well regarded. I ran first gen Sram Red on my road bike for many years and did like it a lot. Note that Srams lowest end is much more mid-range than Shimanos low end (I've seen Apex compared roughly to 105 in quality).

The doubletap is different than Shimano. You have one lever that does everything, a light tap shifts one way and a longer push shifts the other. When I built my road bike, my previous bikes had run Shimano and I got used to it very quickly. My current gravel bikes (electric and non) run Shimano and when I ride the road bike on the trainer I adjust back to the Sram doubletap pretty fast.

The main thing I liked about my Sram was the brake lever is much more solid feeling (since it isn't doubling as a shift lever, it only moves forward and back) and the sram hoods were more narrow and comfy for me (I have small hands and have always found shimano hoods to be a bit bulky). Your mileage may vary. I'd try and test ride a bike with it if you can.

 

[EmilyRides]

Thanks @jabberwocky, that is really good intel. I didn't know the first thing about Apex or anything SRAM-related, so what my friend told me was the first and only thing I'd heard about it. She is very bike-knowledgeable, so I respect her opinion, but I do know that everyone is different. I like hearing about the SRAM brake lever and the hoods, as I also have smaller hands and also find Shimano hoods bulky.

I definitely want to find a bike to test ride with Apex if at all possible; I'm sure it won't be "e", but that's fine for a test ride. I ride the smallest size of any bike model, so that always makes finding anything to test ride more of a challenge. If and when I decide to take the plunge, I may have to call around to different dealers to see if I can find anything with Apex to ride. It will most likely be a gravel bike, I assume?

 

[direwolf]

Thanks @jabberwocky, that is really good intel. I didn't know the first thing about Apex or anything SRAM-related, so what my friend told me was the first and only thing I'd heard about it. She is very bike-knowledgeable, so I respect her opinion, but I do know that everyone is different. I like hearing about the SRAM brake lever and the hoods, as I also have smaller hands and also find Shimano hoods bulky.

I definitely want to find a bike to test ride with Apex if at all possible; I'm sure it won't be "e", but that's fine for a test ride. I ride the smallest size of any bike model, so that always makes finding anything to test ride more of a challenge. If and when I decide to take the plunge, I may have to call around to different dealers to see if I can find anything with Apex to ride. It will most likely be a gravel bike, I assume?

I forgot to mention one thing about SRAM -- their hydraulic road/gravel brakes are pretty bad. I think this opinion is fairly widely shared. Their MTB brakes are probably better. It's fine for most situations, but it's terrible for serious hills. I gravel bike in the mountains, and I eventually replaced the calipers with a Hope 4-piston setup because I was losing so much braking power on the descents. They also use DOT hydraulic fluid (which is pretty noxious) instead of mineral oil, like Shimano and Campag. If you're biking on mostly flat terrain, the SRAM is fine.

 

[jabberwocky]

Thanks @jabberwocky, that is really good intel. I didn't know the first thing about Apex or anything SRAM-related, so what my friend told me was the first and only thing I'd heard about it. She is very bike-knowledgeable, so I respect her opinion, but I do know that everyone is different. I like hearing about the SRAM brake lever and the hoods, as I also have smaller hands and also find Shimano hoods bulky.

I definitely want to find a bike to test ride with Apex if at all possible; I'm sure it won't be "e", but that's fine for a test ride. I ride the smallest size of any bike model, so that always makes finding anything to test ride more of a challenge. If and when I decide to take the plunge, I may have to call around to different dealers to see if I can find anything with Apex to ride. It will most likely be a gravel bike, I assume?

I do think there is some debate in the roadie world about where the various equivalences are between Sram and Shimano groups. Sram has 4 road groups, so people kinda assume they are equivalent to the top 4 groups of Shimano, but IMO Apex is about 105 level, Red is about Dura-ace level and Rival/Force occupy the middle ground where Ultegra is. Knowing people who have had Apex and Rival they seem very solid and I've heard no complaints. Honestly 105 is really good these days too. The days where anything not Ultegra was kind of a mushy mess are long gone, both companies have let the features and quality of the higher end groups trickle down over the years.

I forgot to mention one thing about SRAM -- their hydraulic road/gravel brakes are pretty bad. I think this opinion is fairly widely shared. Their MTB brakes are probably better. It's fine for most situations, but it's terrible for serious hills. I gravel bike in the mountains, and I eventually replaced the calipers with a Hope 4-piston setup because I was losing so much braking power on the descents. They also use DOT hydraulic fluid (which is pretty noxious) instead of mineral oil, like Shimano and Campag. If you're biking on mostly flat terrain, the SRAM is fine.

Good to know, I have zero experience with their disc groups (though I've run sram MTB brakes on many mountain bikes). Honestly I'm not that impressed with the Ultegra discs on my non-electric gravel bike or the GRX brakes on my e-gravel either. They are fine. They aren't great. I've considered the Hopes a few times. I did upgrade the e-gravel bike to 180mm rotors (which was a pain in the ass with flat mount calipers) and it helped a lot.

 

[AvalancheRun]

santa cruz seems to be going against the conventional wisdom here - the flat bar and drop bar skitch have the same frame. same geometry. they do skew the height recommendations a bit, since the hoods on the drop bar bikes are so much further forward than the grips on the flat bar bike :

View attachment 174269

this is probably extra important because the reach on these bikes seems VERY LONG. at 6’2, they recommend the XL for me, with 435 mm reach. my creo was 391, my aethos 402, my addict 384. 435 is nuts.

as far as i know, most other bikes which offer both bars have slightly different frames, like the diverge. maybe because the reach is so long, it works OK with the less extended flat bars, and they just side down for drop bar riders. that’s what the chart implies.

I’m 6’1” and the large flat bar Skitch was a big bike. Reach was too long for me.

 

[mschwett]

I’m 6’1” and the large flat bar Skitch was a big bike. Reach was too long for me.

yeah, that’s what I’m saying…. that‘s a long reach! I feel like riding a bike that’s too big for you is the new in thing lol.

 

[AvalancheRun]

It’s weird because reach is my only issue. I guess I have slightly short arms for my height (wingspan is about 2” less than height).

My 56 diverge feels a little small, aside for the reach. I even shortened the stem to 80 cm from 90, and had a fit on it for 90 cm. Otherwise I just feel a little cramped, always striking toes on the front wheel.

With the Skitch I would have added a redshift stem but it’s the same length (80cm) as what comes with the size L, so not much opportunity to reduce reach. I have a 90s mtb that actually fits perfectly. Gonna try and find something like that next time around.

Idk!