My First DIY - Gravel Bike w/TSDZ2

[LimboJim]

For once I'll let the pictures do the talkin'...

Links to bike and kit below

Dropbar Green Redwood

We took the geometry of our Poseidon X and amped it up so you can eat up gravel with enough tire to absorb the vibrations of a rutted-rocky trail. Redwood wheels have 27.5" thru-axle/tubeless compatible rims. Allowing a 2.8" tire to clear this frame without issues. Whether you are on trails most...

www.poseidonbike.com

Eco Cycles – Opening Soon

www.eco-ebike.com

 

[onlineaddy]

That's one sweet-looking build.

 

[tomjasz]

Great vendor too! Extremely helpful.

 

[FlatSix911]

For once I'll let the pictures do the talkin'... View attachment 74985
Links to bike and kit below View attachment 74984View attachment 74983

Dropbar Green Redwood

We took the geometry of our Poseidon X and amped it up so you can eat up gravel with enough tire to absorb the vibrations of a rutted-rocky trail. Redwood wheels have 27.5" thru-axle/tubeless compatible rims. Allowing a 2.8" tire to clear this frame without issues. Whether you are on trails most...

www.poseidonbike.com

Eco Cycles – Opening Soon

www.eco-ebike.com

Nice looking rig... with those tires it looks like a full Gravel/Mtn hybrid!

 

[JRA]

Keep your eye out for a set of compatible 700c mtb wheels with an i25/27 rim and mount them tubeless with some 40-45c tires and it will give that bike a whole different feel, and not in a bad way either.

I hadn't heard of Poseidon before and looked them up. 9 bills for a bike like that is a steal. You can upgrade components at will. Looks Good!

 

[tomjasz]

Often times BBSxx series kit buyers worry about motor being low, but not below the chainring. Often the TSDZ2 is much lower, and not an issue for most DIY kit builders.

 

[LimboJim]

Nice looking rig... with those tires it looks like a full Gravel/Mtn hybrid!

That's why I snagged it, right before they ran out of large frames! Rides purty nice, too

Keep your eye out for a set of compatible 700c mtb wheels with an i25/27 rim and mount them tubeless with some 40-45c tires and it will give that bike a whole different feel, and not in a bad way either.

I hadn't heard of Poseidon before and looked them up. 9 bills for a bike like that is a steal. You can upgrade components at will. Looks Good!

Yikes! I already have extra wheelsets for two of my eMTBs because it's easier than swapping tires all the time (good wkd for Ice Spiker tires on trails coming up hereabouts). But different wheels would give a vastly different ride experience, to be sure.

TBH I wish I'd gotten an XL frame because I'm 6'3"+ with 36 inseam, and have always been more comfy with them. But I also had an eye toward selling it, and larges are easier to sell than XLs. I intend to do many more conversions, adaptations, manipulations etc., though this one has semi-mental value - you never forget your first!

I caught a review of the Redwood in September thanks to my Google news feed, and had to jump on it, as it was indeed a steal. This Poseidon Redwood's maiden voyage was about 30 miles - unassisted - on unpaved rail trail, with a couple miles of easy singletrack thrown in for good measure. After 5 years with pedal assist, I'd almost forgotten what riding acoustic was like...

Which one did you get? The 52V version?

48V 13.5Ah battery, no throttle, with the minimalist display. I didn't really consider the 52V after I'd read this review that said:

The controller can even handle 52V batteries, I however do not recommend this because the controller isn’t officially rated at this voltage. You will also decrease the reliability and the lifespan of the controller and motor by doing this. So stick to 36V or 48V batteries if possible.

Judging from the author's many other posts and reviews, he knows his stuff!

Often times BBSxx series kit buyers worry about motor being low, but not below the chainring. Often the TSDZ2 is much lower, and not an issue for most DIY kit builders.

I got the bashguard for this reason, but it's incompatible with this frame. I'll save it for my next TSDZ2 build on a "real" MTB!

 

[LimboJim]

Here's the other side, taken on my stand as I prepare to install a 110 lb capacity Axiom Streamliner rack... almost looks like an oil can under there...

 

[LimboJim]

I slapped the rear Axiom rack on, which'll help carry a LOT of bikepacking gear, but now I need to find a reasonably priced front rack.
The Axiom's under $50 (got this one for $35) - a great deal for such a high-capacity rack - but they don't seem to make front racks, and the other ones I've seen cost too damn much... Any insights?

 

[Fuegonj]

Hey man I’m thinking if recreating this exact build. Could you give me links or names to those bags. Cheers!

 

[PedalUma]

Nice build!
As an experiment, try unplugging the speed sensor and feeling the difference. I discovered this by accident. One of my lugged steel bikes had narrow chainstays so I could not fit the standard TSDZ2 speed sensor pick up when I built it. Months later I readapted a speed sensor and made it work. When I rode it, it stank. All the feel was gone from the bike. I immediately removed it and the feel was restored. Over time I removed them from other bikes. This vastly improved each of them. I am looking at five conversion bikes right now in my workshop. None of them have speed sensors. This makes for a cleaner build, but speed will not be displayed. So what. There are apps for that. The 36 Volt 350Watt motor without a speed sensor, feels much better than a 48V 750Watt TSDZ2 with a speed sensor. Do not trust me, verify this for yourself.
I also have a 750 Watt $6500 hub motor eBike here a guy is picking up in about one-hour. What is perversely funny is that a $500 three-speed, coaster brake bike with a TSDZ2 and a three pound 36V water bottle battery outperforms it. The $6500 bike can't go over curbs, has slow acceleration and cannot take 20Mph headwinds or steep hills. It can do 29Mph on a flat run with no hills or wind because it has a large 50-T chainring to a ten-speed cassette. He paid an extra $1,000 for a massive battery which the bike needs to carry 100% of the time. It is like carrying a keg of beer on your back because you might get thirsty. That will only make you thirsty! It is so heavy that the range is limited to about 20 miles on a flat ride even though the display says it has a range of 250 miles when it is fully charged. The display is not accounting for the extra weight of the obesely massive battery.

 

[LimboJim]

Hey man I’m thinking if recreating this exact build. Could you give me links or names to those bags. Cheers!

Fair warning: the Redwood's downtube is wider than its "standard" width bottom bracket housing, so I had to pound it with a Park Tools hammer to round and narrow it and make the DZ2 fit. And the DZ2's mounting bolt wouldn't work with the Redwood's chainstays, which is less than ideal.

I'd also advise against using a bigger chainring than the "stock" 42T, although Eco Cycles offers a custom 50T chainring with 10mm offset. Even with the offset, the DZ2's chainring doesn't hold onto the chain in 1st or 2nd gear (even with a narrow-wide chainring), but an Origin8 seat tube mounted chainguide remedied that on the 42T ring. The guide wouldn't work with the 50T chainring, though...

With the 42 stock ring, I spent most of my road-riding time in gears 8-10, which capped me at about 23mph.

While I much prefer Tongsheng over Bafang, this probably have been an easier build to do with a BBS kit. And the Green Guru frame bag came from Pacific Rayne.

 

[LimboJim]

Nice build!
As an experiment, try unplugging the speed sensor and feeling the difference. I discovered this by accident. One of my lugged steel bikes had narrow chainstays so I could not fit the standard TSDZ2 speed sensor pick up when I built it. Months later I readapted a speed sensor and made it work. When I rode it, it stank. All the feel was gone from the bike. I immediately removed it and the feel was restored. Over time I removed them from other bikes. This vastly improved each of them. I am looking at five conversion bikes right now in my workshop. None of them have speed sensors. This makes for a cleaner build, but speed will not be displayed. So what. There are apps for that. The 36 Volt 350Watt motor without a speed sensor, feels much better than a 48V 750Watt TSDZ2 with a speed sensor. Do not trust me, verify this for yourself.
I also have a 750 Watt $6500 hub motor eBike here a guy is picking up in about one-hour. What is perversely funny is that a $500 three-speed, coaster brake bike with a TSDZ2 and a three pound 36V water bottle battery outperforms it. The $6500 bike can't go over curbs, has slow acceleration and cannot take 20Mph headwinds or steep hills. It can do 29Mph on a flat run with no hills or wind because it has a large 50-T chainring to a ten-speed cassette. He paid an extra $1,000 for a massive battery which the bike needs to carry 100% of the time. It is like carrying a keg of beer on your back because you might get thirsty. That will only make you thirsty! It is so heavy that the range is limited to about 20 miles on a flat ride even though the display says it has a range of 250 miles when it is fully charged. The display is not accounting for the extra weight of the obesely massive battery.

I'll try unplugging the speed sensor next time I ride it, but that may be awhile because SNOW! I'll gladly ride the snowmobile-packed trails in this weather, but road salt SUCKS...

ANd it amazes me how much people value those Stromers...

 

[EMGX]

Nice build!
As an experiment, try unplugging the speed sensor and feeling the difference. I discovered this by accident. One of my lugged steel bikes had narrow chainstays so I could not fit the standard TSDZ2 speed sensor pick up when I built it. Months later I readapted a speed sensor and made it work. When I rode it, it stank. All the feel was gone from the bike. I immediately removed it and the feel was restored. Over time I removed them from other bikes. This vastly improved each of them. I am looking at five conversion bikes right now in my workshop. None of them have speed sensors. This makes for a cleaner build, but speed will not be displayed. So what. There are apps for that. The 36 Volt 350Watt motor without a speed sensor, feels much better than a 48V 750Watt TSDZ2 with a speed sensor. Do not trust me, verify this for yourself.
I also have a 750 Watt $6500 hub motor eBike here a guy is picking up in about one-hour. What is perversely funny is that a $500 three-speed, coaster brake bike with a TSDZ2 and a three pound 36V water bottle battery outperforms it. The $6500 bike can't go over curbs, has slow acceleration and cannot take 20Mph headwinds or steep hills. It can do 29Mph on a flat run with no hills or wind because it has a large 50-T chainring to a ten-speed cassette. He paid an extra $1,000 for a massive battery which the bike needs to carry 100% of the time. It is like carrying a keg of beer on your back because you might get thirsty. That will only make you thirsty! It is so heavy that the range is limited to about 20 miles on a flat ride even though the display says it has a range of 250 miles when it is fully charged. The display is not accounting for the extra weight of the obesely massive battery.

Thanks for the speed sensor tip. My wife doesn't need to know speed or distance but a little more power would be welcome. Have to wait a few days for the ice/snow to melt to give it a try. If it works your tip deserves a separate thread.

 

[PedalUma]

I almost always need a longer bolt on the secondary motor mount on the chainstays. Which reminds me to go around the corner and get more today. Without a longer bolt it will break. Get some bolts that are M8 1.25 x 55 Socket Head Cap Screws, Class 12.9, Black Oxide Finish. On aluminum frames I need to mill the inside of the bottom bracket. I almost always need to shim inside the BB to prevent movement. On one bike, my Specialized Chisel, I had to trim the outside of the BB by 5mm. Yes, stick with the standard 42-T chainring. When I was dumb and numb I put a 58-T chainring on one for a day. On one bike I rode it hard with a 50-T ring and burnt the controller and wasted the bearings. That was a fast bike but would you ride a horse that you owned and cared about that hard - enough to kill it? Going 23.2 Mph at 80 RPM cadence is fast enough and within the law. A Bafang is easier but after riding the TSDZ2 I am not going back to the heavy slug. I will only install those for people with a disability that is not between the ears. They are mostly marketed for the Hee Haw studio audience.

 

[PedalUma]

The heavy bike is gone! He had ridden it to 0% more than once an a couple of cells are damaged. I got it on its feet again gave it a tune and reset the torque sensor. But cannot do anything with the injured proprietary battery. you would think that a $6500 bike would protect it self. The horn would honk when he shifted gears. I can explain why, but won't bore you.
Here are photos from today, just now, on a pair of bikes that are part way in the process of getting converted to the TSDZ2. Because they are rim brake bikes I installed extra-long brake shoes, 954mm. The Avocado bike is for the stronger rider so I dropped the rear cog on the Nexus hub from 22-T to 16. I like clean builds without a bunch of messy wires. The batteries will be 8.7 Amps at 36V for light weight with good range and the connectors will be soldered to leads directly to the motors.

 

[PedalUma]

Thank you!
I have tried them all. I like the 36V, 350W best. It will out climb and out run bikes with 750W hubs and feels better then the 750W TSDZ2.
Look at the wire on this build.

 

[PedalUma]

There is noting wrong with it. Yours is great. It is a matter of taste - like wine or music. I have a balance that I am liking for feel and weight.
When you can try the speed sensor disconnect and share what you find. It lets you hit peek power when needed at starts and bursts.

 

[hotpot]

I slapped the rear Axiom rack on, which'll help carry a LOT of bikepacking gear, but now I need to find a reasonably priced front rack.
The Axiom's under $50 (got this one for $35) - a great deal for such a high-capacity rack - but they don't seem to make front racks, and the other ones I've seen cost too damn much... Any insights?

Can you tell what's the specific model for the rear rack? Cause I've seen multiple ones on Axiom, also did you find the front rack already. I'm about to start building a similar one in few days, any inputs would be appreciated.

 

[PedalUma]

This front rack is from Public Bikes. This one is 48V, 750W, 95Nm and IGH-7 with an internal brake and a trigger shifter. It has a Raleigh badge but a friend in China says it is really a Flying Pigeon frame.