My 1000w motor journey and fear mongering by users of the forum!

[MrCaspan]

A speed limit is far simpler and easier to enforce.

Exactly and police enforcement already have the tools to enforce it!

 

[MrCaspan]

NOOOOO!!!!!

Anyone advocating speed limits should get ready for the return of us vs them, My "240 w " regularly sees speeds of 75 kph , and my sons unpowered mtb is pulling away down those hills.

Darwin would have made a great polictician

Not speed limits on the bikes speed limits on the road, just like a car your can do what ever you want with your bike. You could then have 2 modes for your bike on road that the motor stops helping at 32km/h or offroad and you have to monitor your speed.. Hell i can cost down a hill and hit 45km/h with no motor!

 

[J.R.]

Exactly and police enforcement already have the tools to enforce it!

You must live in a very wealthy community if they have the tools and personnel to enforce ebike/bike speeds.

 

[MrCaspan]

You must live in a very wealthy community if they have the tools and personnel to enforce ebike/bike speeds.

Are you being sarcastic or silly? If a cop with a speed gun is checking traffic they can point it at a car OR hear me out.... A BIKE. Or again if they are following you they can.... look at their speedometer!!!

 

[Alaskan]

NOOOOO!!!!!

Anyone advocating speed limits should get ready for the return of us vs them, My "240 w " regularly sees speeds of 75 kph , and my sons unpowered mtb is pulling away down those hills.

If that is the case and you are on a mixed use trail then you should slow down or bear the consequences.
Why should you be subject to a ticket for going at a safe speed just because your vehicle can be ridden at higher speeds?

If public safety is the primary concern, your son on his unpowered MTB should also be operating at the same safe speed as you on your ebike that keeps all users of a trail safe.

If you want to go faster get on the road and off the trail.

 

[K PierreR]

I will stand by what I wrote. It's no skin off my nose if you reject what I wrote.

 

[J.R.]

Are you being sarcastic or silly?

Neither, I'm dead serious. Everyone thinks the world outside their window is the same for everyone.

I'm not being sarcastic or trying to pick an arguement. People think every community has police that can spend time on things like this. Large swaths of the US and Canada don't even have police departments. My rural township is very large, with little crime and we don't have a police force. We neither need or want one, people are expected to obey the laws we put in place. The county doesn't have a force either. There isn't the will or the money in many places to think about bike speed enforcement. If ebikes ever became problem they would be banned before any money was spent on any kind of enforcement.

I'm not making any suggestions to you and your bike. Many places can't afford to police the crime they have. Enforcement of bike speed would have to pay for itself. That could mean registration and tags. Bikes can easily avoid being stopped. Tags would assure ticketing gets to the rider, whether they get away or not. And fines will need to be steep to contribute to the costs.

The law of unintended consequences.

 

[pmcdonald]

If that is the case and you are on a mixed use trail then you should slow down or bear the consequences.
Why should you be subject to a ticket for going at a safe speed just because your vehicle can be ridden at higher speeds?

If public safety is the primary concern, your son on his unpowered MTB should also be operating at the same safe speed as you on your ebike that keeps all users of a trail safe.

If you want to go faster get on the road and off the trail.

Sure, I can see this approach working in countries with a strong sense of the common good or a robust public shaming culture for transgression but that's not my reading of the American (or Australian) experience. (Could be wrong, usually am )

It's just a numbers game. I genuinely believe the majority of riders would ride to conditions. However, put enough unrestricted bikes in the hands of enough novice, inexperienced, impaired or just plain self-entitled users and bad things will happen. We've already seen fatalities here in Australia from unrestricted ebike-pedestrian collisions. Put more unrestricted bikes in use and watch these fatalities goes up. And as @J.R. lays out, if enough incidents occur I wouldn't expect a nuanced, restrained response from legislators.

Our current system sucks. The 25 km/h speed limit here in Australia is cripplingly slow at times. And I'd much rather see it raised to 32 km/h at least. But if it was a hardware restricted 25 km/h or a free for all with posted limits and that added potential for harm and the ban hammer I'll reluctantly take the former.

 

[Comotose 3.0]

Can you get a speeding ticket on a bicycle in Canada?

The fines are the same, but cyclists don't get demerits. Ontario's Ministry of Transportation (MTO) said that Section 128 of the Highway Traffic Act, which sets speed limits, only applies to motor vehicles - so it doesn't apply to bikes or e-bikes.

Ontario’s Ministry of Transportation (MTO) said that Section 128 of the Highway Traffic Act, which sets speed limits, only applies to motor vehicles - so it doesn’t apply to bikes or e-bikes.

But municipalities can set their own bylaws that apply to cyclists on bike paths, the MTO said.

Speedometers aren’t required on bikes anywhere in Canada.

Is it fair for cyclists to receive speeding tickets if they don’t have speedometers?

Generally, cyclists have to follow the same rules of the road as drivers and the fines are the same, but speedometers aren’t required for bikes anywhere in Canada.

www.theglobeandmail.com

Yes, cops were ticketing cyclists in high park this summer going more than 15 km an hour which is the posted limit, for any vehicle. Didn't matter if you had an e-bike or not.

 

[AHicks]

Neither, I'm dead serious. Everyone thinks the world outside their window is the same for everyone.

I'm not being sarcastic or trying to pick an arguement. People think every community has police that can spend time on things like this. Large swaths of the US and Canada don't even have police departments. My rural township is very large, with little crime and we don't have a police force. We neither need or want one, people are expected to obey the laws we put in place. The county doesn't have a force either. There isn't the will or the money in many places to think about bike speed enforcement. If ebikes ever became problem they would be banned before any money was spent on any kind of enforcement.

I'm not making any suggestions to you and your bike. Many places can't afford to police the crime they have. Enforcement of bike speed would have to pay for itself. That could mean registration and tags. Bikes can easily avoid being stopped. Tags would assure ticketing gets to the rider, whether they get away or not. And fines will need to be steep to contribute to the costs.

The law of unintended consequences.

You're talking about enforcement, period. Any kind of enforcement. From the sound of what you're saying, it makes no difference what the rules are, your local law enforcement have no plans (can't afford) to enforce.

From a pure simplicity stand point, if they were to splurge for some type of enforcement, it would seem FAR simpler to enforce a standardized local speed limit from a manpower or equipment stand point. There are radar guns available for less than 100 dollars that are capable of getting one of my models (mostly balsa and plastic) at a distance of over 100', at speeds in excess of 100mph. Point being, it's pretty affordable. Tough to buy into the idea that somebody that gives a damn can't afford something like that....

 

[McApple]

Not speed limits on the bikes speed limits on the road, just like a car your can do what ever you want with your bike. You could then have 2 modes for your bike on road that the motor stops helping at 32km/h or offroad and you have to monitor your speed.. Hell i can cost down a hill and hit 45km/h with no motor!

To impose speed limits on trails, there must be a means to monitor speeds, there will be a cost. To meet the cost of monitoring speeds, there must be a revenue stream. The easiest way to generate revenue is to license the bikes; this implies vehicle registration....are you going to be happy with this?

 

[J.R.]

For many countries it won't come down to a ban or police enforcement, it will come down to Geofencing. Over the past year it's been discussed in Europe. The automobile industry has been raising the issue and it has discussed for ebikes/bikes as well.

Coming to a town near you?

"Neuron e-bikes can generally be ridden up to 25km/h. However, there are some areas marked as Low Speed Zones and they will slow the maximum speed down, generally to 15km/h. These Low Speed Zones are visible on the map on the home screen of the Neuron app.
We recommend familiarising yourself with our Geofences before starting your ride and planning your journey accordingly. You can find out more about Geofences here.
Please remember to always slow down and give way to pedestrians. On shared paths you should keep to the left and sound your bell when passing pedestrians. Please refer to our Riding Rules for more information."

This technology could easily be required of any ebike sold. Europe has an easier path to install such a plan.

Bike and automotive industries to lock horns on e-Bike regulations?

Both the bicycle and automotive industries appear to have different ideas on what future e-bike speed regulations may look like.

cyclingindustry.news

 

[AHicks]

Yes, cops were ticketing cyclists in high park this summer going more than 15 km an hour which is the posted limit, for any vehicle. Didn't matter if you had an e-bike or not.

I'm not a commuter, so personally speaking I'd be fine with a speed limit like that if it were to affect only busy sections of trail. Seeing a speed limit sign like that 20 miles from the nearest town with 5 mile visibility in all directions might be something I'd have a tendency to ignore.

 

[pmcdonald]

You're talking about enforcement, period. Any kind of enforcement. From the sound of what you're saying, it makes no difference what the rules are, your local law enforcement have no plans (can't afford) to enforce.

From a pure simplicity stand point, if they were to splurge for some type of enforcement, it would seem FAR simpler to enforce a standardized local speed limit from a manpower or equipment stand point. There are radar guns available for less than 100 dollars that are capable of getting one of my models (mostly balsa and plastic) at a distance of over 100', at speeds in excess of 100mph. Point being, it's pretty affordable. Tough to buy into the idea that somebody that gives a damn can't afford something like that....

The technology is cheap, the labor to hold it less so. Police in our city are flat strapped chasing vehicle theft, domestic abuse and the other joys of life in law enforcement. And automated systems like speed traps would rely on a licensing system to work, like a visible number plate (and the bureaucratic trappings that come with it, like rego fees, compliance, CPI).

My observations from a nearby section of MUP with a posted 10 km/h limit: a) no-one follows it, b) it's never policed.

 

[J.R.]

You're talking about enforcement, period. Any kind of enforcement. From the sound of what you're saying, it makes no difference what the rules are, your local law enforcement have no plans (can't afford) to enforce.

From a pure simplicity stand point, if they were to splurge for some type of enforcement, it would seem FAR simpler to enforce a standardized local speed limit from a manpower or equipment stand point. There are radar guns available for less than 100 dollars that are capable of getting one of my models (mostly balsa and plastic) at a distance of over 100', at speeds in excess of 100mph. Point being, it's pretty affordable. Tough to buy into the idea that somebody that gives a damn can't afford something like that....

The only way that works is registration and tags. Riders will be assessed points on their drivers license. Oh, you'll have to have that too. How fair would car drivers think it is for them to pay the price if we don't. We are a minority within a minority. We wield no power or clout.

 

[AHicks]

To impose speed limits on trails, there must be a means to monitor speeds, there will be a cost. To meet the cost of monitoring speeds, there must be a revenue stream. The easiest way to generate revenue is to license the bikes; this implies vehicle registration....are you going to be happy with this?

That's one plan. Does this town have a tourist bureau? Florida for instance, is spending huge money on trails in an attempt to draw tourists. Another might be a local chamber of commerce trying to attract down town traffic. There are a LOT of good reasons to have a well organized trails in place, safety included. Assuming the bike registration plan is the better is being pretty narrow minded....

 

[AHicks]

The technology is cheap, the labor to hold it less so. Police in our city are flat strapped chasing vehicle theft, domestic abuse and the other joys of life in law enforcement. And automated systems like speed traps would rely on a licensing system to work, like a visible number plate (and the bureaucratic trappings that come with it, like rego fees, compliance, CPI).

My observations from a nearby section of MUP with a posted 10 km/h limit: a) no-one follows it, b) it's never policed.

My point is if your community is going to enforce, it would be FAR easier (cheaper) to enforce a speed limit than the current 3 class, e-bike only, system. For easier to prosecute offenders too. You were speeding, or you were not. No issues over the wattage ratings or class requirements of offenders.

 

[AHicks]

The only way that works is registration and tags. Riders will be assessed points on their drivers license. Oh, you'll have to have that too. How fair would car drivers think it is for them to pay the price if we don't. We are a minority within a minority. We wield no power or clout.

That's total BS and you know it.

 

[K PierreR]

Be careful what you guys wish for. You are all advocating regulation on us the likes of which the originators of the US regs tried to avoid. The power regs were written by a couple of Electrical Engineers out of MSU very carefully to keep bicycles, bicycles and motorcycles, motorcycles and not restrict bicycles in the way motorcycles are regulated. The more I learn about e bike power the more ingenious I see the US power regs these couple of guys wrote way back in the early 90's. They could see the future and thanks to them, we are still considered a bicycle.

 

[J.R.]

That's total BS and you know it.

You can call it BS, but how do speed limits work for cars? A cop in a car can't catch a bike that can hit the sidewalks, the alleys, between houses. The only way it could possibly work is registration, tags and license. And how would speed cameras work without tags? It's so logical.