My 1000w motor journey and fear mongering by users of the forum!

MrCaspan

Active Member
So I spent a lot of time looking for a full suspension ebike that I can commute 14km to work and then back on a single charge. I finally found the Biktrix Juggernaut Ultra FS Pro 2 So I asked the community what they thought. I was new to a mid-drive motor. I know that Ontario only allows 500w for street legal e-bikes. I understand why this rule has to exist but I felt 500w was a little under powered for hills and what happens if I'm off rode and want to open it up? It's like making a rule that says engines in cars can only be 100hp which makes no sense, just make a speed limit and ticket those that go over it. So that was my first hurdle, people telling me I'm only allowed to buy 500w in Ontario, I get it people, The Ontario Highway traffic act says you cannot legally ride these on the road but it does not need to be stated like I'm a criminal. No cop is going to look at my bike and even have a clue how many watts it is. You can get fake wattage sticker, fake class stickers ETC. No police office is going to care. What they are going to do is see someone driving their bike, with a helmet commuting to work and not pay attention. If they see me driving at 55km/h weaving in and out of traffic, not stopping at stop signs, I am going to assume they are going to stop me because I'm being a bad driver and they are going to investigate the bike and find out its 1000w. Laws don't exist so that its black and white period! For instance, rolling a stop sign at 2am and you can 100% see traffic. This is not criminal or bad and its not why laws were created! They were created so when someone rolls a stop sign at 8am and almost hits 5 kids crossing the street on the way to school that there is a rule so you can prosecute/ticket them. You have to use your brain and be a good citizen! We almost all go 10 over the speed limit every day in Ontario, why? its against the law!! We all still do it. If we get into an accident then we have to take that risk into account and possibly be blamed because we were going 10 over. So just relax people with the soapbox stuff and telling people they cannot use a 1000w in Ontario because you can you just might get a ticket, that's it!! Stop fear mongering people!


Second were the people that said 1000w was too much power and it will just destroy the bike. We get that you think 1000w is too much and will throw your chain in the bush at the first wrong move. Yes 160nm of torque is a lot if applied wrong, but stop telling people that because you don't like them we should not like them. I have had my bike now for 4 months and I could not be happier with my choice. I was so afraid I made a bad choice because people on this forum fear mongering. I get that you think you are trying to help, but trying to get someone to see your point by making them fear what you fear is not okay. Show them a simple video like this one that explains how it's different. I get some ridders wont want to do this and will just want a hub motor (Like my partners bike, she hates mine) but everyone is different and people like automatic cars, some like manual cars. To be an automatic driver and tell another driver they will hate a manual and its just a horrible system. I get that is your opinion but relax a bit because you are pushing your opinion on others! If someone is asking the difference between a rear and mid drive sure its good to point out the differences!

I would have to say of all the things that were told to me over the posts the only thing that bothers me that NO ONE even mentions is the motor noise! On a trail it is loud as hell, on the street you can barely hear it.

In closing be be careful with your opinions on here, you guys almost talked me out of a bike that I now love with, lets keep discussion to facts and not fears, just let people know the differences but leave the fear out of it.

I hope this help others help others better in their decisions! Sorry Rant over but I felt like my quest for help was a trip down fear lane!
 
Simply put, some people get worked up over nothing. Further, the internet gives everyone a microphone and the courage to use it, regardless of whether they should or not.

Don't get caught up in this yourself :) But your experience is worth relating to be sure.
 
No offence but its riders like you that will make the authorities bring in laws to make us license our bikes and have them tested anually, in Europe we are restricted to 15.5mph (25kmph) and I'm happy with that if it means I can go ride my bike without all the restrictions from the authorities! The people with high power bikes on the roads will ruin it for everybody! My bike is 250W and it can climb any hill....
 
My 1300 w ebikeling geared hub motor would carry me and 80 lb groceries up a 15% grade at 6 mph. Hugely dangerous!!!!!
I took that bike & motor to 25 mph once, on perfect pavement with no gravel. Too rough for me, no suspension. I averaged 8 mph before covid19 damaged my lungs, now 6.75. That motor wore out the plastic gears @~4500 miles, not the windings.
With the 3 class system drying up supply of 1300 w hub motors, my 500 w bafang won't carry me even at 2 mph upgrade without a lot of pedaling & panting. Thanks, industry experts! Thanks legislatures! I'm a real help to traffic blocking the way uphill at 2 mph. A pickup passed me 3 weeks ago at the top of the hill, driving a SUV in opposite lane into a panic stop. Sorry, the only alternative to that hilly road is a 3 lane traffic circle that causes 1000 accidents a year. Death zone for pedestrians & bicycles.
 
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I ride my bike like it's a class 2 when on the road and never go over 30km/h so please explain how I am the problem. Get off the soap box.
Geez, I've been making this and similar arguments for a couple of years now. I'm sort of over it for the time being. Just know that there are plenty of others riding big power with respect for others. The same respect riders of bikes with far less power SHOULD be offering.

And this idea we are ruining it for others? That's a total load of crap, with the state of Florida (and I think Utah?) as proof. They recently passed laws allowing e-bikes to ride anywhere a bicycle can - despite the existence of bikes with big power on their trails, roads, and paths every day. You wanna ride a bike with skinny power? Go for it. Just leave me alone.....
 

Don't be fixated by the watt ratings, take them with large grains of salt. In the first place, hub motors should be rated by how much torque they can produce rather than how many watts they can produce, but even this figure could be subject to much variation and will be difficult to compare across manufacturers and vendors.

  • Motors don't have fixed power ratings. The sustainable power output of a given motors depends very much on the RPM at which it is spinning. At a higher RPM a given motor can produce more power.
  • Motors can handle substantially more power for short times than they can sustain continuously, and that short term power is usually all you need for getting to the top of a steep hill.
  • When ebike companies talk about a motor power, there is no standard at all for whether this is a continuous power rating, a peak output power rating, or a peak input power rating, or something stamped on the product for legal compliance. When Grin talks about a rated motor power, we treat it as some broad ballpark order-of-magnitude kind of thing.
There are more powerful and less powerful motors for sure, but don't rely on a single number to capture this in a standardized way. The best would be if motor manufacturers provided full data on the thermal heating of their motors in different load situations and suggested continuous and peak torque outputs, but given how rare it is to find even basic specs like winding resistance of KV, this is wishful thinking.
 
I ride my bike like it's a class 2 when on the road and never go over 30km/h so please explain how I am the problem. Get off the soap box.
If everybody was responsible like you it wouldn't be a problem but sadly there are many irresponsible riders that ride wrecklessly and kill people and themselves! The laws are there for a reason, I'm a law abiding citizen and will always remain so!

@indianajo You make a fair point but normal bikes climb 15% gradients at 5mph and hold up traffic, its not an excuse to break the law!
 
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If everybody was responsible like you it wouldn't be a problem but sadly there are may irresponsible riders that ride wrecklessly and kill people and themselves! The laws are there for a reason, I'm a law abiding citizen and will always remain so!

@indianajo You make a fair point but normal bikes climb 15% gradients at 5mph and hold up traffic, its not an excuse to break the law!

How many people have died from electric bikes?

The federal Consumer Product Safety Commission found a steady 70% rise in injuries on e-scooters, e-bikes, and hoverboards from 2017 to 2020. The commission reported 71 fatalities across the country over that period.

Deaths and Injuries
Nearly 1,000 bicyclists die and over 130,000 are injured in crashes that occur on roads in the United States every year.
 
@RabH Please don't take my comment as rude its hard on the internet to not be blunt. I get what you are saying, if the law says 500w we should be following it. But also don't get wrapped up in laws the only exist to give law enforcement a way to deal with a person that's breaking the law. If there was no law and you were driving like an idiot people would say "Well show me the rule that says I cannot do this" so we had to create laws to give the right to an office to say you violated this law and I can charge you. Its like J walking, if you do it across a busy street and cause a big issue you can bet you are going to get a ticket. If you use common sense and there is no traffic then no one is going to care. Does that mean I boke the law.. well I guess I did! Does it mean I am bad and need to be punished, no because common sense tells me I can do it safely, a cop can see that and so can anyone else around me.

We have by-laws for the exact same reason, hell in my city its against the by-law to park on the street overnight in the summer. But if I ask my neighbors if they care and they say no then I'm hurting no one. No by-law officer is checking to make sure I didn't break that rule. Its only there to enforce if someone complains. But there is a rule that says I'm not allowed to park over night... its about being civilized about issues IMO
 
A rather important issue is being ignored here. Addressing the legality and enforcement of power restrictions on ebikes from an issue of "will I get a ticket or not?", ignores what will happen if you are involved in an accident, whether your fault or not.

If someone is hurt in an accident involving an ebike, it is highly likely the bike will be inspected for compliance with the legal limits on speed and power. If the bike is found to be out of compliance, the liability of the bike owner will increase exponentially along with the financial liability for any injury or disability caused by the accident.

I am not casting aspersions here or saying this is a reason to get rid of the bike you like so much. Just be aware of the potential added liability you may be taking on by being out of compliance.
 
A rather important issue is being ignored here. Addressing the legality and enforcement of power restrictions on ebikes from an issue of "will I get a ticket or not?", ignores what will happen if you are involved in an accident, whether your fault or not.

If someone is hurt in an accident involving an ebike, it is highly likely the bike will be inspected for compliance with the legal limits on speed and power. If the bike is found to be out of compliance, the liability of the bike owner will increase exponentially along with the financial liability for any injury or disability caused by the accident.

I am not casting aspersions here or saying this is a reason to get rid of the bike you like so much. Just be aware of the potential added liability you may be taking on by being out of compliance.
Not going to disagree for a second, but me thinks this will have to do with the level of paranoia you are comfortable with....
 
Can you get a speeding ticket on a bicycle in Canada?

The fines are the same, but cyclists don't get demerits. Ontario's Ministry of Transportation (MTO) said that Section 128 of the Highway Traffic Act, which sets speed limits, only applies to motor vehicles - so it doesn't apply to bikes or e-bikes.

Ontario’s Ministry of Transportation (MTO) said that Section 128 of the Highway Traffic Act, which sets speed limits, only applies to motor vehicles - so it doesn’t apply to bikes or e-bikes.

But municipalities can set their own bylaws that apply to cyclists on bike paths, the MTO said.

Speedometers aren’t required on bikes anywhere in Canada.
 

Put a 500 watt sticker on it and keep it at legal speeds in the city and you will likely never have a problem.

If you get a ticket pay it because you know the laws.

I do not recommend ebikes for kids under 16 and faster ebikes only for adults with training.

Ride smart and ride safe!
 
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I ride my bike like it's a class 2 when on the road and never go over 30km/h so please explain how I am the problem. Get off the soap box.
Sweet choice! I would love to get my paws on an FS Ultra, i do not suffer from any type of Ultra paranoia! I love that bike.
Please add some bike porn if you get the chance!
 
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