Misalignment of chain with chainring

[Stefan Mikes]

I visually inspected two Vado chainrings:
Deckas 48T is Narrow-Wide
Praxis 48T is Wave.

 

[TS25]

My Turbo Vado 4 is for the UK market and was manufactured in 2020. I have a spare chainring and have attached photos. From what you are saying there appear to be differences between your model and mine.

True and new to me.
-> I've corrected some of my prior remarks above.

 

[BarryS]

My wife's Creo started making noise in the lowest two gears on a ride a couple of days ago. Riding next to her, it sounded like a derailleur out of adjustment. However, when I was able to look at it closely, it turns out the the chain is making micro-jumps as each cog moves onto the tooth (see video, which is in slo mo). In several decades of wrenching, I've never experienced this kind of behavior.

Prior to this problem showing up, her chain dropped (on a very bumpy descent), and ended up between the frame and the chainring, FWIW.

Any thoughts as to what may have happened, and a potential fix?

Majority of your problem is likely Torque of the chainring . It has to be exact on all of those tiny bolts . I've had teh same thing 3 times . Your manual should give you the specs for torque and a pattern as well to tighten . Doing it by hand and guessing won't work

 

[GuruUno]

You have to align outer chain link with the inner tooth. In your video, the outer chain link is on the outer tooth.



View attachment 78693

This is incorrect.
See the attached images.
OUTER teeth of the chainring must mesh with OUTER links (plates) on the chain.
Try it.
If you put an outer link on the inner tooth it jumps to the correct one, no matter how you try to do it.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Guru: As TS25 explained to me, the whole misconception is most of people think the Narrow-Wide or Wave chainrings should be looked at from the side, while the correct look to understand the concept is from the top. As my eyes are not as good as they used to be -- I just follow the diagram as you have done it.

 

[GuruUno]

My misconception was the photo:

which is wrong.
My physical viewing and chain placement, testing negated the photo above, which is of concern.

 

[mordase]

I think the confusion is around the definition of outer and inner for the chainring. When the chainring is fitted on the bike and you view the chainring side on from the drive side then the inner side is the side closet to the seat tube. In that scenario the statement of aligning outer chain link with inner tooth is correct and the picture is correct as what the picture depicts is the outer side of the chainring. On the chainring itself the printed diagram is also correct as it is stamped on the inner side of the chainring ie the side closest to the seat tube. I think they should have made it clearer that the photo is being viewed from the drive side of the bicycle so effectively the outer side of the chainring. At least that’s my take on it. If you follow the stamped diagram on the actual chainring all will be fine.

 

[TS25]

This is incorrect.
....
OUTER teeth of the chainring must mesh with OUTER links (plates) on the chain.

It all depends from which side of the Praxis wave chainring you're looking at it.
You are showing the inner side of the chainring as the drawing is on that side. Now turn it around and look from the other side, which is the side you normally see when the chainring is mounted on the bike. Then it is correct to say: mount the outer chainlink on the (now) inner tooth.

But what baffles me most with your Praxis wave chainring are the abrasions on both sides of your chain teeth shown. It shouldn't be like that, and it might be due to an incorrect chain line. I have marked your abrasion in red (regrettably "normal" on that side with wave system) and yellow (unusual on that side, even with wave system) in your picture I'm attaching.

Looking at the abrasions on your wave chainring teeth I now understand why a number of Vado users complained about the Praxis chainring because it didn't last long. My narrow-wide Deckas chainring doesn't show any abrasions after 2.500 km so I think it was a good choice to have switched to it.
-------------
PS: mordase was the hedgehog beating the hare (me)

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I now understand why a number of Vado users complained about the Praxis chainring because it didn't last long.

The ease of replacing the Praxis chainring on a Vado cannot be compared with the same process for Deckas (been there, done that)

 

[TS25]

The ease of replacing the Praxis chainring on a Vado cannot be compared with the same process for Deckas (been there, done that)

Yes, I followed the birth pangs of a newborn home bike mechanic.

Heads up, you'll fix the Deckas chainring in 20 minutes next time.

 

[GuruUno]

It all depends from which side of the Praxis wave chainring you're looking at it.
You are showing the inner side of the chainring as the drawing is on that side. Now turn it around and look from the other side, which is the side you normally see when the chainring is mounted on the bike. Then it is correct to say: mount the outer chainlink on the (now) inner tooth.

But what baffles me most with your Praxis wave chainring are the abrasions on both sides of your chain teeth shown. It shouldn't be like that, and it might be due to an incorrect chain line. I have marked your abrasion in red (regrettably "normal" on that side with wave system) and yellow (unusual on that side, even with wave system) in your picture I'm attaching.

Looking at the abrasions on your wave chainring teeth I now understand why a number of Vado users complained about the Praxis chainring because it didn't last long. My narrow-wide Deckas chainring doesn't show any abrasions after 2.500 km so I think it was a good choice to have switched to it.
-------------
PS: mordase was the hedgehog beating the hare (me)

The picture of my chainring is of the original chainring.
The drawing, legend, printing, stencil, wording, etc., is on the OUTSIDE of the chainring as it faces AWAY from the bike towards the mechanic, NOT facing the frame of the bike.
IF you were to look at the mounting provisions for the chain guard, those holes are indented to receive the protrusions of the guard prior to locking in.
Your explanation is saying that the chainring must be mounted with the drawing, legend, printing, stencil, wording, etc., facing the inside/frame of the bike, which would make the guard not fit into place.
This pair (mine as depicted) was in place for over 2300 miles with zero issues.
I just wanted to be proactive and do simple maintenance over the winter months to be ready for this year's rides.
Again, zero issues.
Are you saying that from the factory or when it was assembled it was done so incorrectly and it should be other than what it is?

 

[TS25]

The picture of my chainring is of the original chainring.
The drawing, legend, printing, stencil, wording, etc., is on the OUTSIDE of the chainring as it faces AWAY from the bike towards the mechanic, NOT facing the frame of the bike.

Again, zero issues.
Are you saying that from the factory or when it was assembled it was done so incorrectly and it should be other than what it is?

The drawing as shown attached to my #28 is on the inner side of the chainring, facing the bike frame. At least it was that way from the factory with my Vado, and the Vados of others who commented in this forum.

And the abrasions on your chainring aren't normal, even not for a wave chainring.

 

[GuruUno]

The drawing as shown attached to my #28 is on the inner side of the chainring, facing the bike frame. At least it was that way from the factory with my Vado, and the Vados of others who commented in this forum.

And the abrasions on your chainring aren't normal, even not for a wave chainring.

So, just to be clear for my own knowledge, I will attempt to 'turn it around' today to see if it is mountable (the guard on the ring).
If others here have verification of the correct orientation, it might be helpful. (photos)
Thank yhou.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Heads up, you'll fix the Deckas chainring in 20 minutes next time.

I consider buying yet another Praxis for stock

 

[TS25]

I consider buying yet another Praxis for stock

Did you find the matching blue colour for it, to use your blue pedals?

 

[GuruUno]

OK, took it off, took photos, please educate me, as it was on correctly, I took it off to validate such, and I'm still not comprehending "in/out, lin, tooth, etc", as per previously referenced replies, photos, etc, etc..
It (the chainring) can only go on one way,.

 

[mordase]

My Praxis 40T chainring on my UK supplied Turbo Vado 4 (2020 model) is fitted the opposite way to yours with the diagram, wording, logos etc all facing inwards towards to seat tube. This is how it was supplied from the factory. Like you, I have never had any issues. Clearly there is a difference between yours and mine. I note that on the 4 fixing arms that attach to the crank spider where the thread holes are cut, there are circular protrusions on the opposite side to where the wording is stamped. As mine would have the protrusion pointing in towards the crank spider then a logical conclusion seems that the chainrings can be fitted either way around. However, as I have never taken my chainring off from the spider I cannot comment about your statement that it can only be fitted one way. Perhaps someone else who has removed the Praxis chainring can comment on their experience. The plot thickens.

 

[TS25]

...with the diagram, wording, logos etc all facing inwards towards to seat tube. This is how it was supplied from the factory. ...
there are circular protrusions on the opposite side ...

It has been the same with my Praxis chainring: the diagram (showing how the chain links should be mounted) facing inwards (to the bike frame) and the protrusions of the threads on the opposite side of the chainring (which was free of any further wording, logos etc).

 

[mordase]

I had a closer look at my chainring today and everything seems to indicate that GuruUno’s ring is fitted the opposite way. If you look at the attached photos you can see the difference in alignment between the spider arm and the arms on the chainring. The first picture is my setup and everything aligns. The second is GuruUno’s and to me it doesn’t look aligned. Hope that helps in some way.

 

[GuruUno]

The alignment and mounting are identical, with the exception of the wording facing in as your statement on yours and the "ears" (spider arm) of the mounting flanges being of a slightly different shape.
Again, I'll photo the old and the new overlaying each other.
Regardless, let us for the moment discount the flange and being tapered vs not (in comparing the 2), other than that, they mount identically the same, correct?
Again, mine is a 48T chainring.

As mine would have the protrusion pointing in towards the crank spider then a logical conclusion seems that the chainrings can be fitted either way around.

It would then "stand off" and not be flush, as those protrusions, nipples, whatever wording we use, mesh, fit, fall into place in the "dish" or receiving hole of the spider arm, and cannot be flush if reversed.