Limitations on Riding Uphill

[GrandPappyMike]

I was unaware of the limitations of riding uphill with Rad Power Bikes. Since I live in the Catskill mountains pretty much anyway I go is uphill. I also am older and have COPD so from my perspective these limitations seem a bit disappointing to me. I'm going to continue to do what I have been doing and hope I get at least a full year out of the bike. My next bike I'll research it better and make sure there are no limitations on going uphills. Here's the link to the uphill limitations.
https://radpowerbikes.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115002190354-Riding-on-Hilly-Terrain

 

[mrgold35]

Are you looking to use the Rad bike more like a scooter on steep inclines? I wouldn't be able to pedal up steep inclines on mostly rear hub with light pedal power added. I find PAS 3 at 350-375 watts, using a lower gear to maintain at least 60 rpm pedal speed, and using the throttle when needed gets me up most inclines. I sometimes drop down to 1st or 2nd gear to maintain my 60 rpm pedal speed on steep inclines. Better than pushing the +70lbs ebike up the hill.

Mid drives seem to be choice for hill climbing ability; but, very few have throttles. Most mid drives start where rear hub ebikes end for bike prices. Your best bet might be aftermarket/custom build. Luna Cycle has mid drive or hub drive kits for 1000-3000 watts that start at $275 to $800. You already have the battery and bike.

Luna Cycle mid drives: https://lunacycle.com/mid-drive-kits/

Luna Cycles hub drives: https://lunacycle.com/motors/conversion-kits/

 

[ritestuf]

Sorry, noob to the ebike thing. How do you know what rpm pedal speed you're maintaining?
I've only put 30 miles on my new Radrover since I bought it 3 weeks ago. I've just so far been playing around with different combinations of PAS, gear, and throttle.
I'm sure at some point I'll figure out what works best for a given terrain, but sounds like you already know!
It's easy for me to just give it full throttle at the base of a hill, but I realize that's terribly inefficient. Plus the hot babes I'd impress pedaling backward going uphill fast are now laughing at me when I crawl up it at 8 mph.

 

[AHicks]

Just another opinion, but my thinking is there are inclines, there are hills, and then there are mountains. You see bicycles being ridden frequently on inclines, and hills, but mountains? That's just not something you're going to see every day. I think e-bike usage, or bicycling in any form, may be pushing things a bit (for most of us) with everyday usage in mountainous areas, especially when it comes to hub motors. I believe our OP is correct in that more research on his part would have been a good idea. It'll be interesting to hear how he does.

 

[GrandPappyMike]

Are you looking to use the Rad bike more like a scooter on steep inclines? I wouldn't be able to pedal up steep inclines on mostly rear hub with light pedal power added. I find PAS 3 at 350-375 watts, using a lower gear to maintain at least 60 rpm pedal speed, and using the throttle when needed gets me up most inclines. I sometimes drop down to 1st or 2nd gear to maintain my 60 rpm pedal speed on steep inclines. Better than pushing the +70lbs ebike up the hill.

Thank you for the links. I do pedal up the hills as it is a 4 mile ride to the top and an elevation gain of 1393 ft. I have to put it in pas 5 to make it up parts of it. If I had to walk it I might as well put on a pack and become a hiker.

 

[mrgold35]

The sweet spot for me to pedal with the most endurance and max speed is around 55 -65 rpms. I usually just do the 1-one thousand/2 one thousand... on my pedal rotations to guess-i-mate my rpms (try for one complete rotation of one pedal per second).

I've noticed I can ride +35 miles at that rotation speed. It doesn't mean I'm doing 20 mph the whole way. I might only be in PAS 2 at 13-16 mph the entire time.

I do the same thing and try to max out my speed before hitting a long incline in PAS 3 or 4. I start to back down the gears as I drop speed; but, maintain my 60 rpm pedal speed. I sometimes use the throttle near the top if my speed drops too much and I don't want downshift the last 50 feet. I'm usually breaking a good sweat and breathing hard near the top. Not sure that would work with someone with COPD.

 

[MarkF]

This upgrade will give you extra power for the hills but at the expense of draining your battery faster. (Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

 

[GrandPappyMike]

This upgrade will give you extra power for the hills but at the expense of draining your battery faster. (Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

It looks like they're out of stock and it doesn't seem to fit in the Radmini frame or stock mounting locations.

 

[AHicks]

For the long pulls you're after, not sure how good a move that would be anyway. Yes, the Bolton kits improve performance, but increased performance is pretty much useless in your situation unless it also increased cooling efficiency - which it does not. Kinda like replacing a 4 cylinder motor in a car with a V8. Unless you increase the radiator size to match the V8's cooling needs, increase in performance not going to be very useful. Not for long anyway....

 

[TForan]

Mid drive with 750 watts + and it will flatten any hill.

 

[indianajo]

Mid drives seem to be choice for hill climbing ability; but, very few have throttles. Most mid drives start where rear hub ebikes end for bike prices. Your best bet might be aftermarket/custom build.

Mid drives mid drives mid drives mid drives. People on this website have mid-drives stuck in their mind like glue. Extremely important, bike shops make more profit on mid-drives so those are obviously superior.
I use hub drives on 15% grades all the time. Mid drive maintenance and part unavailability problems (after a few years) (don't believe me read the article mikedd wrote about the incompatibility of the modern bosch mid drives with the bike frames that the original bosch drives were installed in) are required in EUROPE where ebikes are limited by law to 350 W. Europe also has 20 mile grades where heat buildup is a problem. The O.P. lives in NY state with roller grades. He can legally buy a 1000 w (26 A) hub drive.
From the picture found by bing, it appears rad bikes, at least the radrover shown me, is a DD hub motor. Those are cheap and not entirely suitable to hills. But, I've been using one at 330 lb gross weight for 8 months on 15% grades. The secret is, run the speed up with the throttle as fast as practicle before the grade, to get the motor up into its proper operating speed. Then run full throttle up the grade. DD hub drives are not very efficient on steep grades, and I've been running a 17 AH battery down from 50 v to 43 v in 30 miles with 8 of them being very hilly.
I last month managed to get my 1000 W geared hub drive installed and compatible with the throttle only controller that came with the DD hub. Top speed is lower, but the battery draw on my last trip (including a stiff headwind) was 50 v to 48 v. So the geared hub drive is much more efficient on steep hills. Duh, read Audel's Motor Book for the reasons. I don't need the 25 mph top speed of the DD drive.
In NY state borsht belt, I imagine what steep hills that exist are rollers like we have here. Ie, short upgrades followed by short downgrades. This doesn't overheat the motor even using full throttle. I've had California obsessed vendors refuse to sell me a geared hub drive because of my "excessive" 330 lb gross weight. (I carry supplies to my summer camp). Those coastal people have 20 mile grades that people ride all the time, and probably burn out motors frequently. The Appalachians are NOT the Sierra Madres or Rockies. Note I pedal downhill with no power; there are deer here and I can stop faster uphill than down.
So if GPmike really does burn out a DD motor on his rad, just buy a geared hub drive. It should bolt right in. they are all 135 mm dropouts. A little fooling with the wire harness, the original controller might work. Since new controllers are $35, I'd say buy a new one with the motor along with throttle, but you may not have to install it.

 

[LimboJim]

From Rad Power Bike's "Riding on Hilly Terrain" post:

"On steep hills, a rider should keep the motor at or under 500 watts of power output."

This blows my mind! They hype their 750w motor everywhere else, but bury the caveat that you shouldn't exceed 500w in an obscure page?

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Just another opinion, but my thinking is there are inclines, there are hills, and then there are mountains. You see bicycles being ridden frequently on inclines, and hills, but mountains? That's just not something you're going to see every day. I think e-bike usage, or bicycling in any form, may be pushing things a bit (for most of us) with everyday usage in mountainous areas, especially when it comes to hub motors. I believe our OP is correct in that more research on his part would have been a good idea. It'll be interesting to hear how he does.

Please. You have absolutely got to be kidding me. I ride my e-bike in the mountains all of the time.

 

[steve mercier]

If all you want is to rip uphills any => 500 watt hub motor will always pull faster than my ' expensive mid drive mid drive mid drive". If you have COPD you probably are not looking for much excersize so the 350 watt mid- drive may be completely unsuitable. Has your hub motor ever let you down ? It will probably outlive the rest of the bike. I always let her rip uphills on my beater 500 watt hub drive ( 6000 km) and although 15% grades are uncommon around here , 12% is common , and there are plenty of those. I have broken a lot of spokes but the hub motor never failed me. So cheer up , it may never happen!

 

[AHicks]

Please. You have absolutely got to be kidding me. I ride my e-bike in the mountains all of the time.

All due respect, and realizing full well everybody deserves an opinion of their own, I didn't say it couldn't be done. I am though, wondering about the relevance of your comment, and that video, as regarding an older COPD patient riding a bike produced by RAD?

If so certain of the Rad Mini's abilities, perhaps you could assure our OP there is no issue riding in his area, and that RAD has no idea of what they are talking about regarding the use of this bike in the hills, with the advice to use caution?

No, not kidding at all.......

 

[vincent]

4 miles is a long way uphill

with your situation i would be looking at bafang ultra bikes - mid drive with throttle and 1000watts

or maybe the bbshd kits - others with that kit could chime in

i can climb pretty well with my rad rover in level 4-5 pedalling pretty good , but 4 miles is a long time to push the motor temp wise

i agree with Ahicks assessment of inclines, hills, mountains etc
not all bike are going to do mountains and long pulls uphill

 

[Ebiker01]

My opinion is that for someone who’s weight is <=215lb, a 500watts motor is enough for hills. For long hillls , you also need a big battery or to start with it from at least 45-50%.
Climbing a steep long hill with 20% left in the battery on a 500watts motor and a 200lb rider , it would need level 4/5 in Pas and is hard on the battery.
For a 225lb rider and above a 750watts or a higher wattage motor is a much better choice for long ot ahort but steep hills. Again need to have the battery ? somewhere in between 45-95% cappacity to start a ride like that.

 

[DDBB]

I wouldn't say the catskills are primarily short uphills followed by short downhills. There's long grades everywhere in that area, hence some great downhill skiing as well

 

[rich c]

I was unaware of the limitations of riding uphill with Rad Power Bikes. Since I live in the Catskill mountains pretty much anyway I go is uphill. I also am older and have COPD so from my perspective these limitations seem a bit disappointing to me. I'm going to continue to do what I have been doing and hope I get at least a full year out of the bike. My next bike I'll research it better and make sure there are no limitations on going uphills. Here's the link to the uphill limitations.
https://radpowerbikes.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115002190354-Riding-on-Hilly-Terrain

My opinion is that people buy Radpower based on their marketing and price. If you need power and don’t want to pedal, why did you buy an electric assist bicycle. If you need a scooter, buy a scooter.

 

[DDBB]

I'll keep my mid drive.. No limitations on climbing