Limitations on Riding Uphill

[harryS]

German and Japanese mid drives have no throttles, so you still have to pedal up them mountains, no? And if they get hot, don't they have temperature sensors that kill the power?

 

[TForan]

German and Japanese mid drives have no throttles, so you still have to pedal up them mountains, no? And if they get hot, don't they have temperature sensors that kill the power?

My Bafang Ultra had one until I took it off. No need for it with the torque the motor puts out.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

German and Japanese mid drives have no throttles, so you still have to pedal up them mountains, no? And if they get hot, don't they have temperature sensors that kill the power?

I have a Bosch Performance CX mid drive and routinely climb long and steep hills in very warm to hot conditions. At the very most the batteries and motor were very slightly warm to the touch, and usually not even that. So while they might have a temperature sensor that protects the hardware from a practical standpoint it will likely never come on unless you are riding in Libya or the Panamints.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

All due respect, and realizing full well everybody deserves an opinion of their own, I didn't say it couldn't be done. I am though, wondering about the relevance of your comment, and that video, as regarding an older COPD patient riding a bike produced by RAD?

If so certain of the Rad Mini's abilities, perhaps you could assure our OP there is no issue riding in his area, and that RAD has no idea of what they are talking about regarding the use of this bike in the hills, with the advice to use caution?

No, not kidding at all.......

Of course you need to use appropriate technology for the problem you are trying to solve -- you wouldn't pound nails with a table saw.

I personally have never ridden a Rad Mini or ridden in the Catskills so I have no knowledge directly relevant to the OP's question. I doubt any but a tiny minority of the dozen or so respondents on this thread have that directly relevant knowledge either.

My point was, and is, that a great many people use e-bikes in mountainous areas and have great fun and little to no trouble doing so. So when you say "for most of us" perhaps I misunderstood you. My apologies if I did so.

 

[harryS]

Should have added that temperature sensors are a good thing to protect riders from burning out motor. Folks have burned up BBS01/BBS02 which are mid drives w/o them, while others have softened/melted the nylon gears in both BBS01/02 and gear driven motors by flogging them up hills. WIth a DD motor, you can overheat the windings and it melts solder and sensors.

You have to recognize limits of your ebikes, and you can ride most places. At some point, you cannot, and Nature wins.

 

[ebikemom]

If you need a scooter, buy a scooter.

Pedaling is awesome. I hope you can find a bike that suits your needs. If you know the percentage grades and lengths of hills, that will help you when talking to bike sellers. I suggest a brand that has a good warranty and aftercare who will stand behind their product for your application.

I live in a VERY hilly area. Lots of steep/brief inclines and up-and-down rolling hills, and some longer spates of uphill stuff. My bike has no problem with the 1-2 miles of uphill stuff it takes to get to my house. In some spots, grades are (briefly) up to 20+percent, and I definitely am pedalling harder when it gets very steep.

I totally understand your disappointment that the bike you got does not work for what you wanted it to do. It's a good reminder to bike shoppers out there to understand the limitations of ebikes and check carefully to make sure that what they are considering at a purchase is a good fit for their particular needs, terrain, bike load, physical capabilities, etc. Even a "cheap" ebike is expensive if it doesn't work for what you need it for.

 

[AHicks]

Of course you need to use appropriate technology for the problem you are trying to solve -- you wouldn't pound nails with a table saw.

I personally have never ridden a Rad Mini or ridden in the Catskills so I have no knowledge directly relevant to the OP's question. I doubt any but a tiny minority of the dozen or so respondents on this thread have that directly relevant knowledge either.

My point was, and is, that a great many people use e-bikes in mountainous areas and have great fun and little to no trouble doing so. So when you say "for most of us" perhaps I misunderstood you. My apologies if I did so.

"Appropriate technology", with no further explanation, now how condescending a comment is that?

Perhaps somebody that's never ridden a Rad Mini, or the Catskills, might try to share thier opinions on the matter at hand a little more gracefully? Especially in light of the fact our PO is most likely still early on the e-bike learning curve.

2 points relevant to this conversation. The first is, you are riding and speaking of hill climbing performance regarding a totally different class of bike - a mid drive, without mentioning that fact. You still haven't. Those struggling to follow a conversation on this topic will gain nothing but confusion without understanding the fact that mid drives will out climb about anything - or the fact that's what you're talking about.

Further, you are dismissing the fact our PO has a medical condition that is likely leaving him in no position to pedal hard for any length of time.

Last, your right, I should have qualified my "most of us" comment better. Perhaps "most of us riding hub drive systems" would have prevented some confusion..... -Al

 

[GregGritton]

That's bc it's a 350 watt motor, with a peak power rating of 500. They have no shame when it comes to marketing. And the price is going back up $200.

Why do you call it a 350 watt motor with a 500 watt peak? If at level 5 RAD puts 750 watts into the motor then wouldn't you say the motor is 500 watts peak? Also, they recommend not exceeding 500 watts for longer intervals. Thus, it seems the continuous rating would be 500 watts.

 

[vincent]

i agree with AHicks
disappointed with how people have answered this persons post

making snide comments about throttles
hub vs mid drive preaching

"pedaling is awesome" statements

bashing rad

did anyone read the actual first post of this

he has a physical limitation and may not be able to pedal the whole way

none of this has been helpful and it was condescending

most of us probably have more ebike knowledge than the poster and i dont think he has even responded to any of this

so we are basically preaching to each other, not helping or offering polite advice

 

[J.R.]

I think prospective ebikers are far better off reading reviews and experiences of owners and professional reviewers. Advice on the good, bad and the ugly can work, but advice on whether a bike will work for a particular rider in a particular terrain rarely works. Everyone of us is different! Two people of the same age, same physical condition, living in the same area will have different thresholds of mental toughness and pain. Personally I don't consider myself the toughest rider, but I am a determined rider. More than some, less than others. Advice to the OP is kind, but in the end will be of limited help. I don't think I've ever recommended a bike model I own to anyone. I try not anyway. I can advise on a few brands and whether I think a part or accessory works well.

 

[DDBB]

I think it's safe to say mid drives are better suited to climbing than hub drives.. One can say this w/o being snide IMO

 

[vincent]

Yes that is probably true but a 250-350 watt bosch mid drive is probably not going to work for THIS person with his physical limitations and 4 mile long grades


I dont know what mid drive you have, but no limitations on climbing is probably not true for every person that would ride it
unless maybe it is an ultra with throttle


And Ravi went halfway across the country on a stromer with a hub motor and probably climbed way longer grades than 4 miles- BUT he is a high level bike rider



This person even in a mid drive will probably need a bbshd with throttle tuned pretty high or an ultra etc

Maybe he could add a bbshd to this bike

But getting into ultra territory is much bigger money and a lot less to choose from right now

the point is this person already is not happy with his 1500-1700 purchase because the bike cannot do what he needs it to

acting like he did not do enough research and was foolish does not help matters

researching ebikes is HARD, it is overwhelming and confusing
and if you dont have access to a bike shop with a lot of different types of bikes AND the ability to test ride it on that 4 mile uphill grade it is hard to understand the differences between all of them

he could have ridden a haibike mid drive somewhere, bought it and still been in the same boat

 

[DDBB]

Pretty sure a Haibike mid drive , bosch or yamaha isn't going to overheat or have limitations on a 4 mile climb however they don't have a throttle

 

[vincent]

Did you read the first post in this thread?

This person is older and has COPD

It is not about the bike or the motor, it is about the person riding it

 

[DDBB]

Well, it certainly IS about the bike and/or the motor since he needs one that suits his needs and the current one doesn't

 

[vincent]

And someone with COPD is not going to do well with a bosch or yamaha motor on 4 miles grades

 

[ez3putt]

It is my interpretation of your posts that you are more concerned about burning up your motor than the performance you are getting from your Rad. Your 4 mile hill with a 1400 ft. elevation gain has an AVERAGE grade of 6.6%. That is well below the 15% Rad sets as an upper threshold. Since you are only using PAS 5 occasionally, I would not worry about it unless the motor was hot to the touch when you got to the top of the hill. I have no idea how I could determine the grade % of a hill just by looking at it. I do not own a Rad and am not defending them, but I do own a hub drive bike that I am taking to the Smoky Mountains next month. I may be wrong, but riding 4 miles into a 17-20 mph headwind(which I did Sunday), is not much different than riding up hill. Enjoy riding your bike, and if the motor burns up in less than a year, it should still be covered under warranty.

 

[DDBB]

Saying that a mid drive is better at climbing than a hub drive is just stating facts. Recommending a specific bike is something I would not do. I don't know enough about what is available to suit his needs. I'd agree with ez3putt though. The climbing limitations were probably put in the manual to avoid warranty claims and he probably won't have any trouble as long as he's not going up 15% grades both ways to and from his house for miles and miles. People saying the Catskills don't have big hills haven't been to the Catskills though, there are a lot of long hills. Not sure about the grade percentage but I wouldn't want to be riding an acoustic bike there, especially with COPD.. Anyway, is this the right room for an argument?

 

[Mr. Coffee]

One of the reasons the discussion here is so unhelpful and so unfortunately confusing to the OP is that most of us contributing here have a very narrow experience with e-bikes -- I doubt many here have extensive experience on more than three brands or models of e-bikes, and most probably have less than that. So it is hard to make objective comparisons or have a very informed discussion. In general most bike shops won't be very much help either because e-bikes are relatively new and people generally don't have as much ride time on them as they do on acoustic bikes.

The only way to get that kind of information is to do the honest work of systematically collecting it.

If you systematically measured the relative performance of different kinds of e-bikes over several known courses and also measured the rider's cadence and heart rate you could (1) objectively evaluate which e-bikes climbed hills better, and (2) you could objectively evaluate how much effort a cyclist had to put in to make that result happen.

What would make this easier is that a lot of e-bikes have similar drivetrains and should perform similarly in such benchmarks. At least for comparison purposes that would be Good Enough.

Yes, this would be a considerable amount of work. But valuable information is certainly not free. And it is a little shocking to me that people are designing e-bikes without this information.

 

[DDBB]

I think I can recommend a bike for the OP.... The FLX Blade! No, I haven't ridden one but it obviously has enough power to suit his needs and then some!