Karmic - Karmic Koben, Press - PR - Praise - Critique

[J.R.]

As with all crowd-funding products it's the job of the campaign to get as much press online and print as possible. Most times you can tell the puff pieces from real critique, but often you can still get a kernel of information from even the most PR driven fluff produced.

I'm starting this thread for several reasons; 1, because I've backed this bike, but I remain open minded about this ebike and want to know more about the proposed build. 2, There should be a thread started by someone other than Karmic so members here can discuss and critique this build without dumping on one of the developers threads. 3, I hope members will provide links to writings, both good and bad for information about this proposed ebike and/or it's developers. After all this campaign will be with us for the remainder of 2015, so there will be a lot written and posted.

The following are links to writings, they are straight links so you know where you are going before opening. I haven't placed them in any order and there is a You Tube video included.

http://www.coolthings.com/karmic-koben/
http://techcrunch.com/2015/03/24/karmic-koben/
http://indefinitelywild.gizmodo.com/what-s-wrong-with-electric-bicycles-1702986234
https://www.reddit.com/r/ebikes/comments/350c88/karmic_køben_ebike/
https://www.facebook.com/techcrunch/posts/10153231016247952

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpIozNQB2mo

 

[George S.]

JR,

Wow, great list. I think the indefinitelywild article and the video are a good summary.

There is some information on the battery and NTS Works in this (2012) video:

Hong mentioned that the battery in the KS offered Karmic will be Samsung 3200 mah cells, not actually in production until the summer. The bikes will be assembled in Taiwan, not drop shipped from China. All of this was in the comments.

Pete mentioned the bike on his site, electricbikereport.com., but it was just a basic summary.

G

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Neal Saiki is a seminal figure in the motorcycle/ bike industry.

Pete did an interview few years ago:

http://electricbikereport.com/solar-electric-cargo-bike-interview-neil-saika-nts-suncycle/

http://electricbikereport.com/solar-electric-cargo-bike-fat-free-e-bike-nts-works-video/#more-15236

Having a person of that caliber on board is enough to convince people like me. I have spoken to many brand managers but no where do you find a guy like Neal who really knows the tech inside out. Although Zero Motorcycles was sold to someone, it still attracts some of the top talents from DIY community. If you have been on Endless Sphere, you might have heard of LFP (Luke aka Live For Physics), one of legends of Endless Sphere community, he joined the Zero and his interview can be found here:

http://www.motorcycle.com/features/...or-battery-specialist-luke-workman-video.html

I guess, these are not directly Koben related but having a strong history of tech and credible people is crucial for success and fostering a good image of this space.

 

[J.R.]

Karmic posted a link today to a published photo album of the Koben.

http://www.karmicbikes.com

Here are the official published specs to date.

 

[Jonah]

Has anyone had an opportunity to ride the Koben or Koben S?

 

[J.R.]

For good or bad (good for owners, bad for Karmic?), with this build you aren't locked into using only the manufactures battery. Any bottle battery will fit on this bike, it's open architecture allows you to go with the best buy. Should this model be the future for ebikes?

 

[J.R.]

Video

EDIT 5/14/15 Transcript for the video:
http://gouldtech.blogspot.com/2015/05/karmics-electronic-bike-magic-battery.html

 

[Kaldeem]

God, once again; if I had the money to order an E-bike, so far this is stealing the cake.

 

[J.R.]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't we missing frame geometry for the bike? I looked, but wasn't able to find it. What are the frame sizes available?

Good catch, you aren't wrong. There aren't really specs published other than S/M/L and here in the US that has historically meant for a road style bike: 17", 19" & 21". Hong has posted that Karmic is attempting to add XS & XL. I'm 6'-2" tall and can ride 19" to 21" comfortably and 18" MTB style. I'm not as concerned as some might be.

The other frame specs noted were rake and carbon belt drive frame cutout. The front fork has a little more rake than standard road bike geometry for stability of added weight. The frame allows for use of a continuous carbon belt drive via the frame cutout/cover-plate, see dropout area in photo below.



EDIT 5/10 (attn. @JayVee)
Frame drawings published 2 weeks ago:(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

This drawing shows frame to be 420mm (16.53in.) likely medium. I expect the large will be 19.5in., but that's just a big guess on my end. Possibly @Hong can come to this thread and provide some clarity.

 

[J.R.]

Koben battery: Samsung's INR 18650-32E, full spec sheet:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5ce5vDCG1uybHJ0UU1WVVhzYUE/edit

NuVinci N360 CVT:

http://www.fallbrooktech.com

EDIT 5/10
I posed a question to the Karmic campaign and asked whether spare batteries would be offered. Hong responded within 15 minutes and stated that spare batteries and chargers will be offered to any Karmic bike owner, but not sold to the general public due to the batteries being designed to work with their own build.

 

[Hong]

Hi EBR!

Sorry I was pretty busy this weekend, happy to answer any questions, but we posted on KS that I'd be out of pocket and answers might be delayed. I do still need to sleep 2-4 hours each day.

Went out for a ride yesterday with some guys:
https://instagram.com/p/2gvQljlt3O/

The bloke on my left just won the opening stage of the Tour of California.

Cheers,
Hong

 

[PowerMe]

FANTASTIC Hong!! I watched your video above as well.

Ok I do have one suggestion and you're going to roll your eyes at me, but whatever; I'm in communications and it's my duty to share my knowledge:

I've noticed a lot of people your age do this now and I see you do this too. You end sentences or sometimes even pause in the middle of a sentence with "right?" blah blah blah, factoid, right? Some people at my company do this too, btw. I notice it a lot now.

It's a bad speaking habit, especially being a presenter and looking for people to back your new business. Practice talking and ending a sentence or pausing and not saying "right?" Assume your listener knows and understands what you're saying. Pause if you aren't sure they understand. If it's become so ingrained it's unconscious, listen to yourself in recordings so you become more aware and spot the times it occurs. Trust me, if you can tackle this bad habit it will make you look like a more confident speaker and business mogul!

 

[Hong]

I haven't even seen that video yet, I don't think it was edited at all, and we were just chatting casually. But you're right, I tend to speak too fast and I need to pause more. Thanks for the advice!

But I'm no business mogul, I'm just a guy who loves bikes.

 

[PowerMe]

Talking fast is ok and chatting casually is also ok. I'm just suggesting that you lose the "right?" utterance. It's like the 2015 version of "ummmm" "ummmm." It's not something that can be edited out of any recording because it's part of your regular speech pattern. I'm only telling you because I know you'll sound fantastic if you can break that one particular speech habit.

 

[Hong]

I know, I know, right?

 

[J.R.]

The Karmic Koben Kickstarter campaign hit it's goal of $195,000 this morning.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

I am very happy to see their campaign reaching the goal within a week! I sincerely wish they reach $1M mark and that should alleviate some of the bad press CF bikes have gotten lately and more importantly, they still need to deliver the goods
but I am very hopeful that they will and build a new benchmark in this industry.
Two thumbs up to the creators and the backers

 

[J.R.]

I am very happy to see their campaign reaching the goal within a week! I sincerely wish they reach $1M mark and that should alleviate some of the bad press CF bikes have gotten lately and more importantly, they still need to deliver the goods
but I am very hopeful that they will and build a new benchmark in this industry.
Two thumbs up to the creators and the backers

I've tried to not post feelings and thoughts into this thread, it's obvious I have an interest in this bike or I wouldn't have researched the issue as much as I have and posted all the information I have. I have a lot of thoughts about the Koben and the first that comes to mind is the crowdfunding gamble. I've invested in stocks for many years and this is a lot like that. I feel I've done the best I can do for my due diligence, I've laid my money down and now it's time to wait for a dividend. In that regard I'm a little surprised the IRS doesn't hit people with capital gains tax when products are received for an investment in these startups. It doesn't exactly fit the stock model I know, but still the difference between claimed value and investment can be significant with many of these campaigns. If sales tax doesn't fit than some sort of income tax may very well fit. Karmic has been more realistic with their claims of value and bike specs. We'll have to wait and see how everything shakes out with the Koben. The proposed build and campaign team are the easiest to feel good about of any of the crowdfunding ebikes that I've come across. Even so it's hard to really put it into words how I feel about this campaign growing so fast, in my mind smaller is more manageable. I wish everyone involved; wisdom, success and a little luck thrown in for good measure. Now back to the facts, just the facts.... I'll try, anyway.

 

[pxpaulx]

There is no need to hide your emotions! There are good risks and bad risks in life. You get behind the people you think can deliver based on your own research and we'll see what happens from there. I'm in for the ride too, can you tell?

 

[Hong]

I love the juxtaposition of J.R.'s cautious optimism and Paul's unbridled enthusiasm. I bet you guys have different experiences in Las Vegas.

We've got some other updates planned, and you guys should be excited that you got in early. It's only going up from here!