Karmic - Karmic Koben, Press - PR - Praise - Critique

Stretch goal rewards were posted to this campaign yesterday and they don't cost anything additional. Unusual in comparison to what we've seen elsewhere. The rewards are: additional colors, hardwired lights and a step-through frame. The goals are reasonable and within reach. Colors; for every 100 bikes backed an additional color can be added to the factory order. Lights; all bikes will have lights front and back if $350k is raised. Step-through frames will be available at the $500k mark.

https://www.kickstarter.com/project...-electric-bike-for-the-human-race/description
 
J.R. said:
Stretch goal rewards were posted to this campaign yesterday and they don't cost anything additional. Unusual in comparison to what we've seen elsewhere. The rewards are: additional colors, hardwired lights and a step-through frame. The goals are reasonable and within reach. Colors; for every 100 bikes backed an additional color can be added to the factory order. Lights; all bikes will have lights front and back if $350k is raised. Step-through frames will be available at the $500k mark.

https://www.kickstarter.com/project...-electric-bike-for-the-human-race/description
Click to expand...
Yes, I was very impressed with these goals. Even if you want a seriously bright light for night riding, the built in light is a safety feature.

I was riding my kit built front hub on a nice path yesterday (first half decent weather) and I think the lighter frame is great. I can ride the MAC Elite as a regular bike, especially on mild downgrades, and not think about the motor. The weight of the Karmic should be great with the balance.

I doubt Hong is going to offer a throttle option. The throttle with the front hub pulls the bike through, and out of, turns which is pretty neat. It will be fun to see how the Karmic handles, since the designers really seem to know their stuff. Really impressed with these Marathon + tires.
 
@stevenast

Also, advertising in the form of journalism is not a new concept. Have you heard of, well, the internet? See those ads when you search google? The internet at this point is practically founded on advertising. If you think that Neal Saiki, someone who helped create some of the best full suspension bike designs (at santa cruz bikes) and founded the largest electric motorcycle company in the world in zero motorcycles has to pay for press, I'd say you're probably (again) way off base on this one.
 
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pxpaulx said:
@stevenast Did you really leave the other Karmic thread, basically drop the mic there and then come here and do that? Were you drunk typing last night? I mean, you responded to yourself...twice! Use the edit button man!

Also, advertising in the form of journalism is not a new concept. Have you heard of, well, the internet? See those ads when you search google? The internet at this point is practically founded on advertising. If you think that Neal Saiki, someone who helped create some of the best full suspension bike designs (at santa cruz bikes) and founded the largest electric motorcycle company in the world in zero motorcycles has to pay for press, I'd say you're probably (again) way off base on this one.

OMG I just looked at the bottom of this page, what is this?! Paid PR! How dare an e-bike forum be run with advertising - oh right that is how the internet goes round :)
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I had hoped this thread would be about information. Steven likes to stir the pot to get a debate going, that's fine for what that's worth. I rarely allow my pot to be stirred:confused:

:)
 
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I like your "stirring the pot" comment, @J.R. I plan to remember that one and repeat it to myself as opportunity presents.
 
If I were to build an ebike, I would probably do something like the Karmic. It seems like a good and practical mix of components for a solid commuter. With that being said, it doesn't seem like anything more than a $500 bikes direct hybrib with a $1,000 Bafang mid drive kit bolted on. I'm pretty sure Flymeaway has a couple of these in his garage already. Where is his kick starter campaign? I do like the rebuildable battery idea, but would it be practical without a nearby dealer considering the costs of shipping bike batteries.
 
Pretty close to committing to a Koben S. And, I better before they raise the price again, sheeze.
I'd like to ask some basic questions about the bike. Seems like most everyone is interested in the motor, drive and especially the battery. But, what about the BIKE? It looks like the wheels are 26"? Hopefully, they consider a 650b size. What's the widest tire to fit between the stays or fork? Any provisions for fenders? (I'm writing from the Seattle area) How about a frame and drive kit? I'm sure some people would want to build up a bike with their preferred wheels, bars, saddle, brakes, etc.
$2000. is a big leap of faith for a bike I don't even have specs for frame sizes.
 
steve - hong had a reddit post before the campaign started. by the sound of it they likely will offer kits, but not until sometime at a later date, perhaps once the initial bikes get out to buyers. i also recall a discussion about fenders somewhere, might have been in the comments on kickstarter. i think we dont have many exact bike specs as they hav epointed out they are still finalizing those with the factory.

unrelated - @George S. and anyone else who might look here in this thread - paul at em3ev has 4 different throttles for the bbs02, maybe we could arrange a small group buy to save on shipping? they are all plug and play and under $10. left hand twist throttle seems to make the most sense to me with the nuvinci on the right and push button control already on the left where a thumb throttle would go.
 
Steve W said:
Pretty close to committing to a Koben S. And, I better before they raise the price again, sheeze.
I'd like to ask some basic questions about the bike. Seems like most everyone is interested in the motor, drive and especially the battery. But, what about the BIKE? It looks like the wheels are 26"? Hopefully, they consider a 650b size. What's the widest tire to fit between the stays or fork? Any provisions for fenders? (I'm writing from the Seattle area) How about a frame and drive kit? I'm sure some people would want to build up a bike with their preferred wheels, bars, saddle, brakes, etc.
$2000. is a big leap of faith for a bike I don't even have specs for frame sizes.
Click to expand...

A good idea would be if detailed information was listed on the campaign site. I mean, if a campaign puts all the information in one central place, then people can more easily figure out what's up. It is also possible that actual specs, from frame to brakes etc, have not been finalized yet.

____________

Another thought is to consider a mass-produced bike. Good values can be found... and it's not such a leap of faith ;) , and you're actually *purchasing something. Cash for e-bike - simple! Warranty claim, you know who is backing it...

Crowdsourcing, of course, is making a donation that *might result in an e-bike...

Just two different ways of looking at it!
 
motor and battery size, brakes, frame and fork and drivetrain for each of the 2 models have been finalized on the kickstarter page. hong has already stated that as other details are finalized they will also be made available. if you dont care to read up on what is being offered...why am i bothering anymore.
 
Vern said:
If I were to build an ebike, I would probably do something like the Karmic. It seems like a good and practical mix of components for a solid commuter. With that being said, it doesn't seem like anything more than a $500 bikes direct hybrib with a $1,000 Bafang mid drive kit bolted on. I'm pretty sure Flymeaway has a couple of these in his garage already. Where is his kick starter campaign? I do like the rebuildable battery idea, but would it be practical without a nearby dealer considering the costs of shipping bike batteries.
Click to expand...
Hey Vern, I don't think Karmic is claiming much more than you state. The battery is the news here, not just the rebuildable part, but the cells specified with this build. These are the newest, most powerful (safe) 18650 cells available at present.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5ce5vDCG1uybHJ0UU1WVVhzYUE/edit?pli=1

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=67317

The battery pack as specified could easily be compared to a $500-$800 pack by others. Don't get me wrong, I don't think any of them are worth that, but that seems the going rate. Added to the Bafang and the NuVinci CVT this proposed build can easily be argued a higher value than a $1500 build. Time will tell...
 
I now see the "comments" on Karmic's kick starter site mention fender and rack provisions. As for wheel and tire size, I'm sure they'll fit the intended use of the bike and be well thought out.
By the looks of the bike, it should survive plenty of curb hopping and some unpaved paths. As long as the battery stays put.
Also, the frame being built for a pass through for belt drive is a big plus.
 
J.R. said:
Time will tell...
Click to expand...

Agreed! I was just saying that to someone yesterday. Gotta wait to see how these things turn out...

It would be cool to step forward a year in time and be able to see how Sondors, Wave, RadRover, and Karmic all are doing.
 
J.R. said:
Hey Vern, I don't think Karmic is claiming much more than you state. The battery is the news here, not just the rebuildable part, but the cells specified with this build. These are the newest, most powerful (safe) 18650 cells available at present.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5ce5vDCG1uybHJ0UU1WVVhzYUE/edit?pli=1

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=67317

The battery pack as specified could easily be compared to a $500-$800 pack by others. Don't get me wrong, I don't think any of them are worth that, but that seems the going rate. Added to the Bafang and the NuVinci CVT this proposed build can easily be argued a higher value than a $1500 build. Time will tell...
Click to expand...
Good points. It seems like a solid value.
 
Karmic has been offering test/demo rides and I had hoped we would have had a non PR review of the Koben, but I've not com across one to date. Hopefully soon! I like that this is a low hype campaign, but it's also been low news of late.

Karmic did offer 2 demo events last week from their campaign site and there is this page you can signup and schedule demo ride.
http://www.karmicbikes.com

Also posted recently is this low-hype view on Coolthings.
http://www.coolthings.com/karmic-koben/
 
J.R. said:
Karmic has been offering test/demo rides and I had hoped we would have had a non PR review of the Koben, but I've not com across one to date. Hopefully soon! I like that this is a low hype campaign, but it's also been low news of late.

Karmic did offer 2 demo events last week from their campaign site and there is this page you can signup and schedule demo ride.
http://www.karmicbikes.com

Also posted recently is this low-hype view on Coolthings.
http://www.coolthings.com/karmic-koben/
Click to expand...

+1
 
Today's update on the Koben nailed down the Bafang motor specifications. Something that has been alluded to pre and post campaign start, today has been confirmed.

"We are thrilled to announce that Koben will feature the new integrated Max mid-drive system!"

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)
 
J.R. said:
Today's update on the Koben nailed down the Bafang motor specifications. Something that has been alluded to pre and post campaign start, today has been confirmed.

"We are thrilled to announce that Koben will feature the new integrated Max mid-drive system!"

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)
Click to expand...

Looks good... Is this system available commercially (I'm wondering about the cost) and also are Koben specs subject to change?

It looks like a pretty sweet electrical system!
 
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