DWEBiker
Active Member
And our Genesis - es -esss lol
Karmic - Karmic Koben, Press - PR - Praise - Critique
- Thread starter J.R.
- Start date
pxpaulx
Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure your mistaking my intention. Frankly I'm a little insulted that you would think that I would expect haibike should be selling their electric bikes for 1k. What I am saying is that the addition of a motor, battery and other necessary parts should not cost an additional $3k. Somewhere in the middle would be a start.
stevenast
Well-Known Member
D
I get it, you're saying the bike is worth $1k alone and then the motor should not be worth so much more.
I get it, you're saying the bike is worth $1k alone and then the motor should not be worth so much more.
J.R.
Well-Known Member
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- Piedmont Highlands
stevenast
Well-Known Member
As you have pointed out before, the thread title accounts for puff, but it bears mentioning that this is just a public relations release, no different than a paid advertisement.
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pxpaulx
Well-Known Member
Public relations, PR it is in the title of the thread, we all get it already.
Disappointed to see the article still taking about using the nts works battery tech. They basically need to delete, retract our rewrite the entire second half of the piece.
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stevenast
Well-Known Member
J.R.
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Seems to be right in keeping with the title of the thread I started. Because it's PR it has no value?
stevenast
Well-Known Member
___________________________
PR has plenty of value to the salesman.
The salesman is hoping that the ad, disguised as a news article, will influence purchase decisions.
This type of advertising has extremely limited, if any, value to the consumer.
We have both sales people and consumers who read this forum, so it's obviously a 100% legitimate post. No criticism here for posting it.
However, it is equally legitimate to point out that it's a commercial.
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pxpaulx
Well-Known Member
@stevenast it's funny, on the one hand you're in these threads trying to put pictures of mouth cancer on the cigarette boxes (dubious crowd funded bikes...scarrrryyyyyy!!!), and at the same time selling Cuban cigars in advocating everyone buy local and reach deep into their pockets for the privilege of riding a high end e bike!
stevenast
Well-Known Member
^^^^^^^^^^
That evaluation (of my positions) is about 33% accurate ...
I think crowd funding is dubious, you are correct. Let's see, Koben is sinking, Wave is sinking, the Sondors Bike is a joke, a campaign that has no financially viable way to ship decent quality to all its supporters.
I ask people reading this - do your homework, look at the history of these things... before you donate money to a crowd sourced campaign. Even those campaigns with the best intentions too often come up short; not always, but its a gamble for sure.
I think most local ebike shops overcharge. This is looking at it from the viewpoint of a consumer, which I am. I recommend doing business where you can get a better price (disclaimer: I have no association of any kind with the ebike industry).
For the most part, I do not recommend local ebike shops (my own e-bike was shipped approximately 1000 miles to me), unless the shop is very willing to negotiate, and even then how long have they been in business? How long will they be in business in the future? Do they have full-time, qualified mechanics?
I do not advocate overpaying. If they want to, folks can ride a higher end e-bike without reaching so deep into their pockets. I was asked not to publicize what I paid for my ebike, and I will honor that by not posting it here.
I think people can buy a quality e-bike for a very good price. A real bike, not a crowd-sourced dream that very well might never come true.
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J.R.
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Your comments are so negative and when you have joy it's when campaigns have issues. Lighten-up!
PowerMe
Well-Known Member
stevenast
Well-Known Member
My joy is for the people who will be getting refunds and not being taken advantage of by a crowdsourced campaign.
To me that is a positive.
Putting up links to advertising articles that promote these schemes - I consider that to be negative posting.
Looking at history is not a negative. Helping people not waste their money is not a negative.
The negative is beating the drums for these very questionable campaigns.
stevenast
Well-Known Member
It's unfair to say taking joy from seeing a dubious enterprise fail, and therefore free people from being victimized, is the same as "schadenfreude".
It's "gruppendenken" for what goes on in the crowd-sourced ebike world.
pxpaulx
Well-Known Member
My joy is for the people who will be getting refunds and not being taken advantage of by a crowdsourced campaign.
To me that is a positive.
Putting up links to advertising articles that promote these schemes - I consider that to be negative posting.
Looking at history is not a negative. Helping people not waste their money is not a negative.
The negative is beating the drums for these very questionable campaigns.
Steve, nobody has paid karmic a penny to date. Did you not know that Kickstarter doesn't charge potential backers until the end of a campaign?
We are not being taken advantage of. We are discussing the merits of this campaign, which to date has received zero dollars. Since Hong announced the delay and battery change about 10% of people have removed their pledge. That is because Hong has been an honest and upfront person, not because of the negative comments in this thread.
When in the past has an investment hurt you so badly that you feel the need to put down other new ventures?
J.R.
Well-Known Member
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- USA
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- Piedmont Highlands
The effects of your disrespectful comments will stifle free speech and the free flow of information to EBR. The question to oneself becomes; why should I post information, only to be disrespected. We are adults here and we don't need a parent to decipher information for us.My joy is for the people who will be getting refunds and not being taken advantage of by a crowdsourced campaign.
To me that is a positive.
Putting up links to advertising articles that promote these schemes - I consider that to be negative posting.
Looking at history is not a negative. Helping people not waste their money is not a negative.
The negative is beating the drums for these very questionable campaigns.
stevenast
Well-Known Member
I am all for hearing all sides of a story. I honestly don't see where people calling me "negative" and I respond that I'm positive, that I am working toward good, and that promoting this campaign is the real negative, I don't see any of that being disrespectful.
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pxpaulx
Well-Known Member
Is my post above positive? I don't think it is, but it didn't bother anyone right? I'm discussing the piece as it relates to the bike being offered here - we aren't saying you can't have criticism, its just that the crowdfunding focus is, well, a bit grating at this point (and I mean that generally, not focused at you!)
@stevenast I don't think you are intending to be as negative as the tone of your posts feel to others at times. None of us would have an issue if you came to discuss the positive or negative merits of this bike. You can also discuss the owner of the campaign, and it wouldn't even be so bad if you just hated the bike and thought it didn't work for x,y and z reasons! It is that you are coming in to solely discuss crowdfunding as a general concept.
We went through this with the Radrover too. I had to point out about 10 positive aspects about not just the bike, but the people behind the campaign, to finally leave it be. We simply want to discuss the bike here, positives and negatives.
On the subject of crowdfunding, there are many other ways businesses do the same thing - pre-orders, custom or low volume orders are all the same process with a different name. I had to pay up front and pre-order my fat bike from bikes direct last summer, took almost 3 months to arrive. I've seen a couple of threads here about wait times for an optibike allroad. Those companies get a break just because they are established? Any company can go belly-up at any time with potential losses to those with a stake in the business or product.
I think we're just kind of tired of the crowdfunding disclaimer posts at this point.
