Is Watt Wagons selling batteries ? Just found 1100wh pack listed on their site.

[pennybags]

I just did a search for massive battery packs and weirdly this came up. https://wattwagons.com/products/titan

Does Watt Wagons sell a big battery too ? I cant seem to be able to navigate to the product from the site - just have a direct link from the search engine.

I have a large triangle and have the jumbo shark pack. This will fit right in. Looks like Titan will be a swap-out without any additional wiring.

Oh, and this comes with the charger included in the price. Incredible. I am ordering one if this is real.

 

[bogus]

Be aware they tend to 'stretch' the numbers... For sure when talking about battery packs capacity. Do not expect they are true.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=105158

 

[pennybags]

@bogus I just read this.

I also saw a couple of other users on ES warning you to stay away from personal attacks. Same policy will apply here.

I looked at the site and looks like WW has removed the 1100Wh text. Looks like an acceptable compromise ... may be you would call this a win for us consumers?

 

[bogus]

Thank you pennybags for the information. Regarding the 'personal attacks' - have you read WW reply before they removed their own posts? That was attack. That was attack instead of clarifying the technical issues with their battery. If i am lying - just tell me where - i'll apologize.
So the battery we are talking about: on the web site there is still information it is 21 Ah battery. Today morning the web site was telling there are Samsung 30Q cells inside. They have removed this information.
Does it mean the suddenly replaced Samsung 30Q cells with higher capacity cells (i.e. Samsung 35E) or the problem still exist? Should i order this battery just to open it to find out what cells are inside?
Samsung 30Q 18650 cells are 3.0 Ah cells so the total capacity is 18 Ah (when discharging with VERY small current. I mean VERY small one). Am I telling lies?
Samsung 30Q official datasheet is easily obtainable on the internet.
The solution is really easy: just make a road test so we can see what we are offered. Same with other 'vendors'. Same with other...
I have screen shots for Luna as well.
I'm not attacking. I'm revealing discrepancies between 'sellsman talking / dirty marketing' and real life numbers because when i spend my own money buying product i'll face the real numbers, not promises.
I'm not attacking anyone here and there. I'm talking about numbers.

 

[onlineaddy]

I don’t know if you’re lying or not, @bogus , but you sure are confrontational. You provide lot of information for others to absorb, but you need better delivery if you want your message to have any impact. Just a friendly advice.

 

[pennybags]

Thank you pennybags for the information. Regarding the 'personal attacks' - have you read WW reply before they removed their own posts? That was attack. That was attack instead of clarifying the technical issues with their battery. If i am lying - just tell me where - i'll apologize.

That's ok. Happens. I read WW's note as well and looks like they deleted their post and said they shoudn't have said it before you replied.

Anyhow. If you want to contribute something, your delivery definitely needs to improve.

 

[bogus]

Thanks for advises. I'll take them into account next time. My approach is partly due to the fact that in my profession such a 'discrepancies' between claimed and real numbers mean millions and millions of dollars of loss...

onlineaddy - please just check the numbers using official datasheets. I'm able to back my statements.

 

[Johnny]

Thank you pennybags for the information. Regarding the 'personal attacks' - have you read WW reply before they removed their own posts? That was attack. That was attack instead of clarifying the technical issues with their battery. If i am lying - just tell me where - i'll apologize.
So the battery we are talking about: on the web site there is still information it is 21 Ah battery. Today morning the web site was telling there are Samsung 30Q cells inside. They have removed this information.
Does it mean the suddenly replaced Samsung 30Q cells with higher capacity cells (i.e. Samsung 35E) or the problem still exist? Should i order this battery just to open it to find out what cells are inside?
Samsung 30Q 18650 cells are 3.0 Ah cells so the total capacity is 18 Ah (when discharging with VERY small current. I mean VERY small one). Am I telling lies?
Samsung 30Q official datasheet is easily obtainable on the internet.
The solution is really easy: just make a road test so we can see what we are offered. Same with other 'vendors'. Same with other...
I have screen shots for Luna as well.
I'm not attacking. I'm revealing discrepancies between 'sellsman talking / dirty marketing' and real life numbers because when i spend my own money buying product i'll face the real numbers, not promises.
I'm not attacking anyone here and there. I'm talking about numbers.

The question you raised is valid, 3ah batteries with 14s6p config will not give 1100wh capacity(will be in the range 900-950).

The way you voice your concern is not. You could have just written a coupe of sentences without the clutter and waited for an answer.

 

[bogus]

I understand. Thank you

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Why are we bringing a fight from another site to this one?

 

[J.R.]

I know nothing of the back story of the give and take between bogus and WW, or posts from ES, but I appreciate the specs. Ebike related sellers promote a lot of questionable numbers, like weight, torque, energy capacity and range. I want to hear all sides of the story. Personal bickering and attacks don't belong here (I haven't seen any in this thread), it belongs on Twitter, which I will never see

Ebikes are classified as "consumer products" in North America, just like a toaster. Sellers can make a lot of claims. I guess many are within the realm of possibility, not necessarily in real world performance though. My toaster makes faster and better golden brown toast than any other toaster on the market

 

[17Stratton]

I know nothing of the back story of the give and take between bogus and WW, or posts from ES, but I appreciate the specs. Ebike related sellers promote a lot of questionable numbers, like weight, torque, energy capacity and range. I want to hear all sides of the story. Personal bickering and attacks don't belong here (I haven't seen any in this thread), it belongs on Twitter, which I will never see

Ebikes are classified as "consumer products" in North America, just like a toaster. Sellers can make a lot of claims. I guess many are within the realm of possibility, not necessarily in real world performance though. My toaster makes faster and better golden brown toast than any other toaster on the market

I appreciate the specs as well and glad this issue was raised. I understand the inherent problems with predicting range. As a heavier rider, I never get anywhere near the range estimate supplied by e-bike sellers, and that's fine. But if the specs being provided are simply math, I think accurate and exact specs should be provided. I know that approach may put WW at at optical disadvantage vs others, but seems WW wants to build a reputation on transparency with it's customers, and providing accurate specs support that goal.

 

[TomD]

Looks like there are 2 versions.

Titan 52V 21ah High Capacity Battery

An incredible battery pack that fits standard shark / jumbo shark mounts. Next batch shipping August 2020 Battery specifications 45amp continuous BMS, 60 A peak 52v 21ah 14s6p 15 lbs, 14.5" x 5.5" x 4" Charging limited to 5A to protect thermals Anderson connectors for discharge Battery pack...

wattwagons.com

• Samsung 35E
• LG HG2 (to support 2300W)

I hope bogus is not in north america. Among the many horrible things I've heard about pushkar, he used to run a soup kitchen...

 

[pushkar]

I have added a capacity for the LG HG2 after talking to the manufacturer.

Turns out that the HG2 pack is a tad more expensive - so I caught that pricing issue as well.

If there are other issues, let me know and we can get them fixed.

 

[bogus]

TomD - hiehie they changed it today apparently See the screen shots provided earlier. Today morning WW website was telling different story it is worth to note THAT THE SUBJECT WAS RAISED when WW was informing their clients that Titan battery is 52 V, 14S6P, 21 Ah, Samsung 30Q cell battery pack. Screen shots available.

 

[TomD]

Yes, not the first time pushkar has corrected something on the website. Like I told you on ES, he's a busy guy and doing their best to put out the best product they can.

 

[bogus]

i know. he is correcting his posts as well so people will not know what was he saying. so busy.

 

[byunbee]

I’m just curious what the driver for this continued attacks on WW. Did you actually purchase the battery from WW and found out that you got something other than what you thought you we’re getting? Did WW refuse to make it right?

I agree that sometimes product descriptions don’t fully represent the reality of the specs (this is true for ALL vendors - I.e. Apple’s battery gate) but the fact that WW actually cared enough to reach out to the manufacturer and validate the specs and make the adjustments is above and beyond what other vendors will do.

The fact that your handle on this forum is @bogus makes me wonder if you’re another well known vendor that’s hiding behind a fake handle just to bring down the positive image and reputation that WW has built consistently over time.

If not and this is your mission in life, then there are plenty of other ebike vendors out there that you can have a hay day with. Just sayin.

 

[vincent]

i agree, who is this person

anyone can make a mistake and Pushkar is going 100mph all the time trying to be transparent, keep us all up to date and put out great innovative bikes

if he posted something wrong accidentally on battery stuff then i am sure if you just pointed it out he would fix it

i also wonder what your motive is

WW is a great company and Pushkar has been great to work with

 

[bogus]

luckily i'm not the vendor. i'm not the seller as well. luckily. just an engineer in completely different area where ALL the real performance data just must be in line with rated values. Otherwise the losses are huge. The companies i'm working for, rather their lawyers, already had some 'issues' with such 'discrepancies' and it ended up with really big numbers.
why WW? Well because i wanted to buy a battery for my FB and that was my first choice. If it was i.e. Luna and i find shitty numbers then i would as Luna why those number. It is as simple as that. I know that forums nowadays are full of sellers, their backers, fake accounts, trolls and some number of real users who want to avoid to be fooled by the rest. The problem is you can not tell who is who so you need to use a common sense, the knowledge, be vigilant, not trust in everything you see, make your own calculations or use your sponsor calculations. Replace 'WW' with any other brand/company. I don't care. I do care what i buy with my money.
At the beginning he was not so keen to make any changes on the web site...