Hydra Order Specs help

[mskrone]

Hello All, new to the forum but have an older ebike. I'm getting ready to order a new Hydra and would like to take advantage of the collective brain trust here. My riding intensions are year round on both trails and pavement, weather and snow are going to be present often as I live in Minnesota. I'll do some single track but nothin too technical. I'm a bit more senior than the young pups (62) with knee problems so I'll add a question around cranks into the mix. While I don't have a budget, my goal is not to add the coolest stuff if it doesn't provide the bang for the buck. I'm guessing that some of these kit options will work best with some other pieces and some not so well so lets take that into consideration. Let's start with the comparisons and options and guide me through the benefits, fallbacks and don't waste your money on type extras.

1. Befang Ultrastock Motor / I plan on taking advantage of the Archon X1 offer so do I go with the stock motor, the X1 750W, X1 1000W or the X1 2300W? ** Important note, I have need and want the capability to exceed 30+ MPH so take that into consideration please.
2. Firmware / If I'm going with the X1 750W - 2300W option, do I need the firmware option?
3. Throttle Restriction Option / How does this limit my drivetrain choices (Kinderlay versus Shimano) and will this impact my ability to exceed 30 MPH (I have two search and rescue GSD's that can reach 30 MPH on open trails and fields so I need the capability to catch them. ** Before you hit the "Just buy a light weight dirt bike button" please note for reasons I cannot go into, it's not an option. Besides my real motorcycle will become jealous and mistreat the little guy.
4. Drivetrain / Shimano or Kinderlay or Rohloff (if offered) what are the advantages of each? I know the Kinderlay and Rohloff represent that expensive threshold of bang for the buck discussion.
5. Wheelset / Due to the need to go through snow, mud, swamp, etc. I'm thinking 26 x 4.8.
6. Rims / Plan on going aluminum unless there is a good argument for the Nextie carbon wheels. The weigh differential in an ebike to me, isn't a concern so what do i get for the $800 and is it worth it?
7. Front & Rear Suspension / I've read that unless you're a very accomplished technical rider the standard Hydra offering will meet your needs, any arguments to that?
8. Brakes / I plan on going with the Dominion Upgrade and MDRP rotors as stopping might just become important at some point. Thoughts on these?
Cranks / I'm old, I hurt but want to and like riding, what advantage will the WW Carbon 165mm bring me if any? I know nothing about cranks.

So, that should get the brain cells burning on here. Take these questions from the approach I know nothing about this stuff so talk to me like I'm a 10th grader, I'm looking to be both educated and convinced around the higher priced options like watts (I want but do I need the 2300 W option), drivetrain, carbon rims..

 

[reed scott]

1. 1000 watt is more than you need. Bou Coup power. BUT you will need a 44 tooth chain ring to go over 30. You won't like over thirty on a bike though. Scary and dangerous.

2. No but why not have it just in case.

3. Get the unrestricted throttle. Just don't mash the joy lever in a high gear from stop. EVER

4. Too involved. Search the forum and ... good luck.

5. To each his own. Fat cuts down your top end though. And range.

6. Carbon wheels are not as durable as aluminum to my mind and things like rocks and misapplied tire irons can mess them up easily. Lots of money.

7.No argument.

8. Can't go wrong with the best brakes but the standard brakes are quite good. I too know little about cranks.

If you go the big 2300 watt you can always reprogram it back to 1000 but if you choose to ride it with the full power available be advised you need to practice super attention to smart gear shifting. That much power can easily snap chains and taco chain rings and cassette cogs.

 

[Ebiker33]

One thing I recently learned is you can decouple the speed limit from the power output with the X1, you can't do that with the stock Bafang units even with display and password.
So lets say for safety reasons you never want to exceed 20 mph but you want 2300W power to climb a 20% grade hill. You can lock the 20mph setting and still pull the massive 2300w to climb that hill.
I also recently learn a stock locked 500W ultra is only good for 20mph, which defeats the whole purpose of extra power from the motor from my perspective.
1000W nominal from the X1 seems to keep most people happy. There is a happy balance between power draw on batteries and power needed for typical riding.

 

[Acme]

1. Personally 1000 W is plenty of power but it’s always nice to have the ability to use the 2300 if you really need it. that said 2300w is enough power to snap chains and the the bike can get away from you.
2. Not sure on this
3. You only need to be concerned about the unrestricted throttle if you are paying for the 2300 W. I have mine set sound and echo one into it only delivered 750w and then after that delivered full power
4. The IGH Kindernay is very nice but expensiv. What you are saying you’re writing style is I don’t know if you will need it
5.. For what you’re talking about that tigers are perfect. Essentially gives you extra suspension meaning you can stay with the lower cost Suntur
6. Aluminum should be fine for you
7. With fat tires you you will be fine with the standard suspension offered.
8. I wouldn’t waste my money. The MT5 are a quad piston that stop my 70 pound Frey on a dime

 

[reed scott]

I just don't 'get' the 2300 watt option. My 1000 watt X1 drives my 10 speed both as fast as I want to go ( 40 tooth chain ring ) and climbs steep hills with a aplomb in 4th gear or 5th. I can mostly ride around all day in 6th, 7th and 8th and almost always in Eco 3. I'll go to 4 and 5 just to goof around occasionally. Sport may as well not exist to me.

 

[Deacon Blues]

I just don't 'get' the 2300 watt option. My 1000 watt X1 drives my 10 speed both as fast as I want to go ( 40 tooth chain ring ) and climbs steep hills with a aplomb in 4th gear or 5th. I can mostly ride around all day in 6th, 7th and 8th and almost always in Eco 3. I'll go to 4 and 5 just to goof around occasionally. Sport may as well not exist to me.

That's the beauty of it being an option....you don't have to purchase it, but others can.

 

[reed scott]

That's the beauty of it being an option....you don't have to purchase it, but others can.

I don't see the connection between my comment and yours. I said, "*I* don't get...." I did not say people should not want or use the 2300 watt version.

 

[onlineaddy]

I don't see the connection between my comment and yours. I said, "*I* don't get...." I did not say people should not want or use the 2300 watt version.

Sounds like you do get the option then. You just don't want/need it, which is fine.

 

[mskrone]

Sounds like you do get the option then. You just don't want/need it, which is fine.

But I do want it.. Just not sure I need it and can justify it. On the bright side, I've justified more want on less fact basis need, paid for it later from the boss though.

 

[onlineaddy]

But I do want it.. Just not sure I need it and can justify it. On the bright side, I've justified more want on less fact basis need, paid for it later from the boss though.

My comment is a response to reed.

 

[reed scott]

But I do want it.. Just not sure I need it and can justify it. On the bright side, I've justified more want on less fact basis need, paid for it later from the boss though.

I literally would not trust myself with the 2300 watt version. I can go stupid fast with 1000 watt. Just the other day I was doing a 'speed test' and a gol darn vulture jumped up from behind a roadside bush and came within two feet of my face! I used to ride so called adventure bikes and had a bunch of friends who rode them also. Half that group eventually hit a deer. One was hospitalized and critically injured by a deer that hit him. These things and maturity have cured me of adrenaline addiction. I like to enjoy the environment not race through it.

Pushkar won't say it, although he hints, but you put a 46 tooth chain ring on one of these things and you could probably hit 50 mph.

 

[mskrone]

I literally would not trust myself with the 2300 watt version. I can go stupid fast with 1000 watt. Just the other day I was doing a 'speed test' and a gol darn vulture jumped up from behind a roadside bush and came within two feet of my face! I used to ride so called adventure bikes and had a bunch of friends who rode them also. Half that group eventually hit a deer. One was hospitalized and critically injured by a deer that hit him. These things and maturity have cured me of adrenaline addiction. I like to enjoy the environment not race through it.

Pushkar won't say it, although he hints, but you put a 46 tooth chain ring on one of these things and you could probably hit 50 mph.

Good to know.. Thanks. My more sane side appreciates that advice. Still looking for guidance on the Kinderlay drivetrain though!!!!

 

[reed scott]

Good to know.. Thanks. My more sane side appreciates that advice. Still looking for guidance on the Kinderlay drivetrain though!!!!

Have you used the search function? Don't check the 'title only' box. There's some discussion sprinkled around on the Kindernay.

 

[Haystacks]

Hello All, new to the forum but have an older ebike. I'm getting ready to order a new Hydra and would like to take advantage of the collective brain trust here. My riding intensions are year round on both trails and pavement, weather and snow are going to be present often as I live in Minnesota. I'll do some single track but nothin too technical. I'm a bit more senior than the young pups (62) with knee problems so I'll add a question around cranks into the mix. While I don't have a budget, my goal is not to add the coolest stuff if it doesn't provide the bang for the buck. I'm guessing that some of these kit options will work best with some other pieces and some not so well so lets take that into consideration. Let's start with the comparisons and options and guide me through the benefits, fallbacks and don't waste your money on type extras.

1. Befang Ultrastock Motor / I plan on taking advantage of the Archon X1 offer so do I go with the stock motor, the X1 750W, X1 1000W or the X1 2300W? ** Important note, I have need and want the capability to exceed 30+ MPH so take that into consideration please.
2. Firmware / If I'm going with the X1 750W - 2300W option, do I need the firmware option?
3. Throttle Restriction Option / How does this limit my drivetrain choices (Kinderlay versus Shimano) and will this impact my ability to exceed 30 MPH (I have two search and rescue GSD's that can reach 30 MPH on open trails and fields so I need the capability to catch them. ** Before you hit the "Just buy a light weight dirt bike button" please note for reasons I cannot go into, it's not an option. Besides my real motorcycle will become jealous and mistreat the little guy.
4. Drivetrain / Shimano or Kinderlay or Rohloff (if offered) what are the advantages of each? I know the Kinderlay and Rohloff represent that expensive threshold of bang for the buck discussion.
5. Wheelset / Due to the need to go through snow, mud, swamp, etc. I'm thinking 26 x 4.8.
6. Rims / Plan on going aluminum unless there is a good argument for the Nextie carbon wheels. The weigh differential in an ebike to me, isn't a concern so what do i get for the $800 and is it worth it?
7. Front & Rear Suspension / I've read that unless you're a very accomplished technical rider the standard Hydra offering will meet your needs, any arguments to that?
8. Brakes / I plan on going with the Dominion Upgrade and MDRP rotors as stopping might just become important at some point. Thoughts on these?
Cranks / I'm old, I hurt but want to and like riding, what advantage will the WW Carbon 165mm bring me if any? I know nothing about cranks.

So, that should get the brain cells burning on here. Take these questions from the approach I know nothing about this stuff so talk to me like I'm a 10th grader, I'm looking to be both educated and convinced around the higher priced options like watts (I want but do I need the 2300 W option), drivetrain, carbon rims..

Best post EVER.

To me this reads like you already know within yourself what you want, and my oh my some bold choices, I LOVE IT

My 2p, you're not new to ebikes and i don't think this situation equates to sending Mrs Doubtfire off on a Sur-ron without half an idea about riding a bike let alone a torquey monster so here goes.

All year, all weather riding, deep snow included i'd go for the 2300w as it sounds like you're used to power due to riding motorbikes, so you know when and when not to over egg it, i'd pair that with the Kindernay; very strong and reliable plus your mech won't get gummed up with snow. I'd also add winter wheels on a Kindernay hub, something like Surly Clownshoe rims with studded 45North Dillinger 5 tyres, this will give you a massive footprint with it being a 100mm rim whilst maintaining non squirrelly PSI. Cranks; The fat Hydra is a combination of 2 frames E10 and E06, *some* folks with E10s are mentioning lots of pedal strikes and are going for shorter cranks, i don't know if thats the case here but it may be. Hope make 155mm ebike specific cranks with isis splines, cracking cranks and should help your knees. For forks i'd upgrade to manitou mastodons, they're the only fat forks that are ebike certified (just remember these ebikes are pushing the limits of BICYCLE technology) and are designed to work sub-zero (they don't gum up as the cold thickens the oil) same with rear shock. Brakes; MT5es are great brakes, will stop you no problem and MDR-Ps are the rotors for them.

I know some of these options are not available on the configurator but i think if you asked @pushkar he might just build this beauty of a bike (bike porn advertising alone would make it worthwhile lol)

That bike is that hot i'm going for a cold shower now.

Keep us updated on which direction you go in and let us know how you get on when it arrives.

 

[mskrone]

Best post EVER.

To me this reads like you already know within yourself what you want, and my oh my some bold choices, I LOVE IT

My 2p, you're not new to ebikes and i don't think this situation equates to sending Mrs Doubtfire off on a Sur-ron without half an idea about riding a bike let alone a torquey monster so here goes.

All year, all weather riding, deep snow included i'd go for the 2300w as it sounds like you're used to power due to riding motorbikes, so you know when and when not to over egg it, i'd pair that with the Kinderlay; very strong and reliable plus your mech won't get gummed up with snow. I'd also add winter wheels on a Kinderlay hub, something like Surly Clownshoe rims with studded 45North Dillinger 5 tyres, this will give you a massive footprint with it being a 100mm rim whilst maintaining non squirrelly PSI. Cranks; The fat Hydra is a combination of 2 frames E10 and E06, *some* folks with E10s are mentioning lots of pedal strikes and are going for shorter cranks, i don't know if thats the case here but it may be. Hope make 155mm ebike specific cranks with isis splines, cracking cranks and should help your knees. For forks i'd upgrade to manitou mastodons, they're the only fat forks that are ebike certified (just remember these ebikes are pushing the limits of BICYCLE technology) and are designed to work sub-zero (they don't gum up as the cold thickens the oil) same with rear shock. Brakes; MT5es are great brakes, will stop you no problem and MDR-Ps are the rotors for them.

I know some of these options are not available on the configurator but i think if you asked @pushkar he might just build this beauty of a bike (bike porn advertising alone would make it worthwhile lol)

That bike is that hot i'm going for a cold shower now.

Keep us updated on which direction you go in and let us know how you get on when it arrives.

LOL, that reply was epic.. While not brand new and innocent to ebikes, I read a lot so I'd qualify as coquettish. I do get the deep snow and will probably use studded tires during the winter as I travel over the lakes. As a motorcycle rider who owns a bike with a ton of torque and HP, I do know how to judiciously handle a throttle. Actually I use an ebike throttle very little, just to get started across crowded crossings. I think the Mastodons are the spec for 26x4.8 so all good there, did not know about the subzero compatibility, rare is the week we are above -5 for the winter freeze over. Still trying to figure out the cranks issue, I just don't know enough about cranks at this point to make an educated decision. Thanks for the MT5es recommendation with the MDRPs. Might save a few pesos there versus the Dominions but at that level are we really counting? You're the first to go with the 2300W option tied to the Kinderlay drivetrain as most say go 1000W. You my friend are costing me money.. @pushkar time to weigh in on some of this and guide me please.

 

[voidedwarranty]

Get the 2300w and get the firmware upgrade and software cable. I have a 1500w peak BBSHD motor and when I'm in a rush and hit slight inclines I'm struggling to maintain 30mph on pavement. It gets a little annoying. I wish I had just that little bit extra to maintain a good 30-35mph for when I need it. As far as the firmware upgrades, I would count on Pushkar to never leave well alone. I believe he will continue to improve upon his products and you will reap those rewards with the firmware upgrades.

One other thing no one has mentioned is the convenience of already having the power. Let's say you opt for the low or mid power X1 option, if you find it's not enough and want to upgrade you will have to take out the motor, send it out and wait for the controller to be swapped out and shipped back and then you will have to re-install it. Better to have all the power available and use software programming to turn it down if you feel like it's too much. Cost difference at the point of new bike sale is negligible but down the road an upgrade will cost more down time and money.

I could be wrong but if you go with fat tires (and judging by how you want to use it you probably should) I believe there is only one option for the front fork.

Sorry this is all I can help with.

 

[Ebiker33]

On the 2300W version if you drive it Eco Pas 1 does most of the 2300W just sit in reserve not putting extra drain on the battery?

 

[voidedwarranty]

On the 2300W version if you drive it Eco Pas 1 does most of the 2300W just sit in reserve not putting extra drain on the battery?

My memory is s*it but Pushkar made a youtube video about programming and showed the stock settings. I believe all eco settings came in under the 2300w. Sport mode is where you get the full beans.

 

[Ebiker33]

My memory is s*it but Pushkar made a youtube video about programming and showed the stock settings. I believe all eco settings came in under the 2300w. Sport mode is where you get the full beans.

Get the 2300w and get the firmware upgrade and software cable. I have a 1500w peak BBSHD motor and when I'm in a rush and hit slight inclines I'm struggling to maintain 30mph on pavement. It gets a little annoying. I wish I had just that little bit extra to maintain a good 30-35mph for when I need it. As far as the firmware upgrades, I would count on Pushkar to never leave well alone. I believe he will continue to improve upon his products and you will reap those rewards with the firmware upgrades.

One other thing no one has mentioned is the convenience of already having the power. Let's say you opt for the low or mid power X1 option, if you find it's not enough and want to upgrade you will have to take out the motor, send it out and wait for the controller to be swapped out and shipped back and then you will have to re-install it. Better to have all the power available and use software programming to turn it down if you feel like it's too much. Cost difference at the point of new bike sale is negligible but down the road an upgrade will cost more down time and money.

I could be wrong but if you go with fat tires (and judging by how you want to use it you probably should) I believe there is only one option for the front fork.

Sorry this is all I can help with.

I am surprised at the BBSHD because it has the same torque rating as the ultra, then again we have a thread going talking about the correlation of RPM/Torque/Watts and how every system has variables that can really effect how the Ebike performs. I even found out that for the Ultra the RPMs are different for the 48V and 52V....so many variables.

 

[Haystacks]

LOL, that reply was epic.. While not brand new and innocent to ebikes, I read a lot so I'd qualify as coquettish. I do get the deep snow and will probably use studded tires during the winter as I travel over the lakes. As a motorcycle rider who owns a bike with a ton of torque and HP, I do know how to judiciously handle a throttle. Actually I use an ebike throttle very little, just to get started across crowded crossings. I think the Mastodons are the spec for 26x4.8 so all good there, did not know about the subzero compatibility, rare is the week we are above -5 for the winter freeze over. Still trying to figure out the cranks issue, I just don't know enough about cranks at this point to make an educated decision. Thanks for the MT5es recommendation with the MDRPs. Might save a few pesos there versus the Dominions but at that level are we really counting? You're the first to go with the 2300W option tied to the Kinderlay drivetrain as most say go 1000W. You my friend are costing me money.. @pushkar time to weigh in on some of this and guide me please.

A bit overenthusiastic i know but #FatBike #Bafang #+1000w almost puts you on the darkside on EBR #DIY would tip it, #Carbon might trigger them though so company is always welcome.

Underpinning my suggestions is one thing really, i think you're looking for quite a serious tool for quite serious uses and lo and behold cycling across frozen lakes..... 2300w is about having it and not needing it rather than not having it and needing it; deep snow, hills and fat tyres = power plus you want a little headroom on that power, you can always ride it in low power and know you have that ace in your pocket should you need it i also picked up that you want a bike not a motorbike as you already have one so you're unlikely to rev n rip, Kindernay is rated upto 160Nm yes you could do that from a stop by just using throttle but if that isnt its purpose then i wouldn't worry too much as the torque sensor will do a fine job.

Sorry to do this but...... you might need a second battery, battery+cold=-Ah also higher wattage will be consumed in the colder months in snow, you don't want a flat battery in deep snow miles from home, these things let us go places we probably shouldn't so do it safely.

You're gna have a blast i can see it, 2 dogs belting around in the snow, YEAHHHH. #jelly