Considering a Specialized, got a few questions

[mschwett]

The Hanley method gives the saddle too high, and the LeMond method makes it too low for me. I usually try the "armpit method" as described in post #105, and it has been good for most of my friends so far.

I think only trial-and-error is really a good approach

the only really good approach is a professional bike fitting, followed by a few weeks of riding and then a quick revisit based on symptoms or problems! there are a lot of variables, including foot position, foot length, hip and knee angle, fore aft position etc etc. the problem with trial and error for many people is that there are too many variables and they end up with the “best” saddle height for a saddle which is too far forward, or back, or bars too high, or too far forward, etc! i believe the best fitters start with the desired knee and hip angles, taking into account stack height at the pedals and foot length, use that to set height, fore aft, and tilt, and then move to the bar height, forward position, grip width, etc. and then after setting those, back to minor adjustments of the saddle.

i did a couple fittings of my creo and aethos - in both cases the “hanley method” was within 2cm, jt it is amazing how much difference very small adjustments make.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

the only really good approach is a professional bike fitting, followed by a few weeks of riding and then a quick revisit based on symptoms or problems!

I think several years of riding, and making aware mods after gaining experience resulted in the best fit of my two e-bikes. I guess visiting a bike-fitter early might save me much trouble but:

• Professional bike-fitters are focused on road (and gravel) cyclists where I live. It is obligatory to wear clipless shoes and use clipless pedals (it might differ where you live)
• No bike-fitter would be able to find a solution for integrated Specialized e-bike parts, such as stem/headlight/display configuration Unless it is a Creo, a road e-bike.

 

[BikerG]

I also like the armpit method and it works for me.

As for tippy toes when you come to a stop, and if you like to stay seated, install a dropper post. I recently installed one on my e-bike and it was a game changer for me in every respect…. from being able to plant both feet on the ground at a stop, getting back on the saddle after a stop on a steep incline, to lowering the saddle just a tad on those long descents. To me, having a dropper on a heavy bike (bikepacking for me) is a safety device and makes so much sense.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Yep... I'm with Stefan on that one too... even with my Como (which he lovingly refers to as a "cruiser e-bike" ) I need to have the seat set so that I have to hop off it when I come to a stop.

@Bavi! Just recollected your post You need to know I once recommended the Como to a female friend of mine and she bought a 5.0. I also tried to convice another friend who experienced a bad knee damage to buy a Como for rehabilitation (she was too frugal though).

I tried Comos once or twice and it those e-bikes allowed me to reach the ground with my feet in any case. It could be related to the wrong saddle adjustment or whatever but that has reguister the Como as a "cruiser" in my mind as it was so different from the Vado!

 

[BikerG]

Wheel size makes a difference too, when it comes to being able to reach the ground with your feet. One reason why I don’t ride 29” wheel mtb’s.

 

[Hekkubus]

@Stefan Mikes oh dear I'm afraid the Creo 2 is well out of my price range!! I'm choking on the Vado SL 5.0 price ...

It sounds like you're saying the Vado SL 4.0 is almost not worth it, since it takes significant $$upgrading$$. Might as well just apply the $$ to a SL 5.0? Except, ouch, it's $1500 more than an SL 4.0. And it still has the 35 Nm motor &etc

The light weight of the SL would be VERY nice, for riding, carrying, and tossing into the car. But I'm concerned about the lightweight motor. I weigh 190 lbs = 86 kg before any gear. I need to find one at the LBS so I can see what it feels like.

I am not a hard-core cyclist. I haven't even had a proper road bike in decades -- I've been riding a recumbent, and not all that much, especially lately. (I'm 67 and I've had 2 forms of cancer in the last 4 years, so there wasn't a lot of riding in there.) So I don't need something I could ride in an ultramarathon. I'd love it, but I probably can't justify the extra k$$ it would cost. I just want a good bike for fun 30-60 mile rides, occasional gravel, occasional serious hills.

Oh right I understand the freezing problem. I have a battery lawn mower, and the first battery only lasted 4 years. I believe it's because I left it on the charger out in the cold. Now I bring it inside in the winter. Not sure how I'd do that with a bike though. I had intended to pop the bike battery off and bring it inside, but that's not gonna work with Specialized. Bringing it inside is possible but would be a fairly major PITA. Not as bad as carrying it up 3 flights of stairs, but ... I'm seriously tempted to build it a little "dog house" to keep it warm in the winter !! On the other hand my brother has a Specialized ebike and his winters get colder than mine. I'll ask him how his bike likes it.

I have the Vado SL 5.0 EQ. I am currently 270lbs (122kg), which is just at the top end of rider weight range for the bike. It has plenty of power to help me up hills. I really love the bike, and I, unfortunately, paid full price. They've come way down on the site (if you can find your size in the store locator, as others have suggested).

You have mentioned how you like the bike's weight, and I'd argue that's was one of the two important factors when I was deciding on e-bikes. I was with a fellow rider who had a heavier bike. She fell off, and I had to help her. The bike weighed around 80lbs (36kg), and I struggled to get it off of her and out of the road. I'm not a weak person, but the weight was surprisingly heavy.

My second biggest draw to the bike was the app and on-bike computer integration. I really like the ability to tune the different modes of the bike through the app. They have made improvements with the app even since I got my bike last year.

My final thought is that this bike is great for long rides without feeling like you have just been riding an e-motorcycle and without feeling like you're completely wiped out. Your 40-60-mile ride is quicker than it would take on traditional bike. However, you'll still get great exercise. They say it's you x2, and it makes sense when you ride the bike. You're having to work, but you can go out and come back in a faster amount of time.

These are my experiences with the Vado. I haven't ridden any other bikes. I think your best bet is, like you said, to go out and ride some at your LBS. Keep us posted on what you get!

 

[GaryInCO]

Too late! I brought a Turbo Vado 4.0 home over a month ago.

It is a bit of a heavy beast, much heavier than the svelte Vado SL. But I took a ride on an SL and it just didn't feel right. I was in discomfort / pain within 5-10 miles. I also wasn't crazy about the non-removable battery -- didn't want to have to bring my bike inside in the winter.

The weight isn't a problem so far. I've loaded it into the back of my car several times. It's not trivial, but it's not that bad. I may spring for a rack so I don't have to levitate it into my hatchback.

Along those lines... many racks have gripper arms that grab the top of the tire. What about the fenders? My brother wants to sell me his Saris SuperClamp EX, but I'm not sure how it would work with the fenders...

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Wheel size makes a difference too, when it comes to being able to reach the ground with your feet. One reason why I don’t ride 29” wheel mtb’s.

Usually, the 27.5" tyres are far wider than the 29" ones, making both wheels approximately the same height. The limiting factor is the ground clearance to avoid pedal strikes.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Too late! I brought a Turbo Vado 4.0 home over a month ago.

It is a bit of a heavy beast, much heavier than the svelte Vado SL. But I took a ride on an SL and it just didn't feel right. I was in discomfort / pain within 5-10 miles. I also wasn't crazy about the non-removable battery -- didn't want to have to bring my bike inside in the winter.

The weight isn't a problem so far. I've loaded it into the back of my car several times. It's not trivial, but it's not that bad. I may spring for a rack so I don't have to levitate it into my hatchback.

Along those lines... many racks have gripper arms that grab the top of the tire. What about the fenders? My brother wants to sell me his Saris SuperClamp EX, but I'm not sure how it would work with the fenders...

Gary, I could preach about the "bike-fitting" but that would be pointless: you did not feel ok on the SL but you like the full power Vado (I own both Vado and Vado SL and am very happy about that!)

As it is a regular winter where I live now, I have decided to be riding my full power Vado until the weather relents. It forces me to carry my 26 kg (57 lbs) Vado up three flight of stairs. I had to accept that. When my Vado is loaded with panniers, I often walk it upstairs in the Walk Mode Carrying the e-bike with no panniers upstairs improves my fitness!

 

[Bavi]

I have never, ever suffered from pedal strikes before getting my Como... The pedals are definitely closer to the ground (and possibly the ends stick out wider due to the motor?) substantially limiting peddling when the bike is cornering, basically it has to be virtually upright before I can pedal.

I saw an old thread started by @GuruUno about pedal strikes before bought my bike and thought he was off his chump (sorry @GuruUno) but he was entirely correct ... cornering clearance is very limited on the full fat Como... a point well worth checking on a test ride of any Specialized leisure e-bike!!!!

 

[BikerG]

Running 12-speeds, my long cage derailleur comes scary close to the ground with my 27.5 wheels when running lower profile gravel tires, for instance. 2.3 knobbies give me more clearance, but also increases my standover height, noticeably.

 

[GaryInCO]

As it is a regular winter where I live now, I have decided to be riding my full power Vado until the weather relents. It forces me to carry my 26 kg (57 lbs) Vado up three flight of stairs. I had to accept that. When my Vado is loaded with panniers, I often walk it upstairs in the Walk Mode Carrying the e-bike with no panniers upstairs improves my fitness!

Ooof! Yes, carrying your Vado up three flights would definitely add to your workout! I would just have to carry it in from my garage (maneuvering around the cars and junk), then take it somewhere indoors. I would have stored it in my "exercise room" just inside the garage door, but now my daughter is living with me for a while, and that's her room. I'd have to park it in my living room or something. I prefer to pop the battery out of the Vado!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I prefer to pop the battery out of the Vado!

Sometimes I do that too!

 

[rob feature]

I have never, ever suffered from pedal strikes before getting my Como... The pedals are definitely closer to the ground (and possibly the ends stick out wider due to the motor?) substantially limiting peddling when the bike is cornering, basically it has to be virtually upright before I can pedal.

I saw an old thread started by @GuruUno about pedal strikes before bought my bike and thought he was off his chump (sorry @GuruUno) but he was entirely correct ... cornering clearance is very limited on the full fat Como... a point well worth checking on a test ride of any Specialized leisure e-bike!!!!

Get shorter cranks. Standard on most bikes is 175 these days. Going down to 160 or so should make a big difference. Higher profile tires help too if you can fit 'em. Reduced pedal width can help as well.

 

[BikerG]

On my e-bike I swapped out my 170 cranks for 155’s. Feels good, I’m able to spin more efficiently, turning smaller circles. With my 30’ inseam, I need short cranks.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

On my e-bike I swapped out my 170 cranks for 155’s. Feels good, I’m able to spin more efficiently, turning smaller circles. With my 30’ inseam, I need short cranks.

Strange. My inseam is 30", too, and I ride standard length cranks on Vado and Vado SL with no issues.

 

[BikerG]

Strange. My inseam is 30", too, and I ride standard length cranks on Vado and Vado SL with no issues.

I use 170’s on my other bikes but have been experiencing knee pain on long rides for the longest time. Crank length calculators also recommend shorter cranks for my inseam. Shorter cranks yields less leverage but with pedal assist I thought I’d give them a try. And on rocky trails I am getting a lot less pedal strike.

 

[mschwett]

I use 170’s on my other bikes but have been experiencing knee pain on long rides for the longest time. Crank length calculators also recommend shorter cranks for my inseam. Shorter cranks yields less leverage but with pedal assist I thought I’d give them a try. And on rocky trails I am getting a lot less pedal strike.

there are a lot of recent studies and data which show that there are few downsides to shorter cranks - most cyclists make up for the reduced leverage with increased cadence… assuming you have the gearing for it.

personally i like longer cranks - give you a lower position on the bike and my inseam is around 35” - but there is really no reason not to go shorter if your knees like it.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I use 170’s on my other bikes but have been experiencing knee pain on long rides for the longest time.

We are for sure not built the same. I do not experience knee pain because I'm pedalling at rather high cadence (77-90+).

And on rocky trails I am getting a lot less pedal strike.

That is a good reason.

 

[California]

The weight isn't a problem so far. I've loaded it into the back of my car several times. It's not trivial, but it's not that bad. I may spring for a rack so I don't have to levitate it into my hatchback.

I have two different cars I transport my Turbo Tero X 6.0 in. One a hatchback, and the other one on a bike rack mounted on the hitch. Honestly, I find it easier to carry inside the car. Yes, there is a lift to get it in, but not too bad with one wheel already inside.

Putting it on the rack is also a bit awkward (in a completely different way). The distance from the ground to the rack with the weight doesn't feel much lighter than going into the hatch. Then there is all the strapping requirements etc... Not a problem but slower than putting it into the large hatch.