Groundbreaking *4 wheel* simplicity???

[DashRiprock]

Thanks for the info on how these Grins operate.
As for the market killing R&D?....tanked it has.
I think that a lot of 'manufacturers' selling anything China-made here in the U.S. have sadly underestimated the carnage about to unfold very soon.
I would have been fire-sale moving absolutely everything during this last week (or long before) to see where I was inventory-wise and then quickly making any 2025 purchasing decisions/putting in only fast turnaround/price-guaranteed POs yesterday.
Even with the above strategy? (which I didn't see many doing) ...I see nothing but doom and gloom for a significantly long stretch of time moving forward.

 

[DashRiprock]

An alternative application guide for the above motor:

Single Side Applications​

A unique feature of the front All-Axle hub design is its ability to work in applications requiring a single side mount. This allows the side wheels of trikes and quads to be readily electrified for the first time, and is especially popular with tadpole trikes running an internal gear hub rear wheel.

Unlike front bicycle forks where there are industry standards (admittedly a lot of standards, but standards at least), the wheel mounting strategy on trikes is all over the map, and unique adapters are required for most vehicle models. We've taken the approach of using the disk caliper mount as an anchor point to hold the wheel and lock the axle against rotation.

Catrike	The popular catrikes are ideal for the V2 Grin Hub motor because they already use a 20mm spindle, and they adopt the rear ISO2000 disk caliper mounting standard for both the left and right wheels.
Terratrike	The terratrike rovers also have a 20mm spindle, but they use a front ISO disk mount and the shaft has a shoulder that prevents the hub from sliding on as far as would be ideal. We accommodate the terratrike axles with a two-piece torque arm that provides the necessary spacing for where the motor fits in place.
Icetrike	This adapter bolts onto a custom machined All Axle Hub Motor to allow for single side mounting to the spindle of certain Icetrike tricycles. The two-piece adapter secures the motor axle to the trike frame via the disk caliper mounting holes. This adapter requires a shim insert to step down the ID of the motor axle to 12mm.
Greenspeed	The Greenspeed trikes use a smaller 12mm diameter spindle and have a disk caliper location with Rear IS2000 caliper placement. We have a similar 2 piece arm that can be flipped 180 degrees for working on either side. This also requires a shim to step the axle ID down to 12mm.
HP Velotechnik	The popular german brand HP Velotechnik makes trikes that all use a 12mm spindle but use a post mount rather than an ISO disc mount. To fit the All-Axle motors on these trikes, we have a disc caliper mounting block that repositions the brake outwards to align with the motor and increases the radial offset for a larger 180mm rotor. The torque arm in this setup is secured to the two fender bolts via a stainless steel plate rather than to the caliper mount. The hardware for the left and right side models are similar, differing only in the direction of bend on the stainless torque arm plate.
DIY	The splined arm is available by itself for doing DIY mounts on other vehicle types. The two bolt holes allow you to interface with a separate flat plate of metal that can attach under the disk caliper or other frame location on the frame to lock the axle from spinning.

One Side or Both?

A trike with dual Grin hub motors can be insanely powerful and will be able to rocket up the steepest hills with amazing efficiency, but it is also quite expensive to do a full conversion with two specialized motors and motor controllers. You can also run a tadpole or delta trike with just a single side wheel motor and leave your original wheel on the other side. In general this does not result in any lopsided steering or handling issues and allows for a ligher weight and more economical conversion.

 

[PCeBiker]

I just took another picture of that quad from the video,..

It looks like they have the hub motor mounted in the frame and I guess it uses a single sprocket/gear to drive a sprocket/gear connected to one side/wheel of the quad?

The rider appears to be connected to the other side through a regular bicycle crank and derailleur ?

That's pretty cool, and should be really cheap and easy to install a different motor.

However, he keeps saying that it is a 750 Watt motor and I don't think that you can even buy a higher power motor?

I don't see an advantage of a Grin motor, other than getting two of them and installing them in each rear wheel?


If it were me, I'd install two or three sprockets on the rear axle were the motor connects with a derailleur and have a 3-speed 750 Watt hub motor.

The motor isn't connected inside the wheel, so you can run it through gears on the axle to get tons of torque at low speed for hills, then tons of speed in third gear.


I've looked at one trike "transmission" and the rear axle isn't directly connected to both rear wheels.
One wheel has to spin freely so that you can go around corners without your tires scrubbing (the outside wheel needs to spin faster than the inside wheel in a turn)

That trike looks Easy to pimp out to maximize torque at all speeds if you put a set of sprockets on the axle for the motor.

You'd end up with two gear shifters though. One for the motor, and one for you the rider.

The motor looks like it's the a direct drive hub motor (with no internal gears), and that makes sense because it's going through sprockets anyway. A direct drive hub motor has no moving parts inside, and lasts forever unless you cook it with too much power.

 

[PCeBiker]

I found a picture of a go cart sprocket with two gears,..

You'll probably have something like this mounted on your rear axle with a single sprocket.

They are thicker stronger sprockets than what's found on a bicycle or ebike but they are much stronger.

I don't know if there is any kind of derailleur for those types of sprockets, but I'm sure you could at least change out your sprockets at the motor and axle to gear it for hills or speed.

Perhaps a normal bicycle/e-bike cassette or freewheel could be installed on the axle, but your 750 Watt motor might tear it apart?

There is CVT belt drive systems too, but I don't think that they are very efficient? (You might waste half your power heating up the belt? )

 

[gromike]

It needs a mid-drive into a differential. Just crap having one power wheel on a quad.

 

[PCeBiker]

It needs a mid-drive into a differential. Just crap having one power wheel on a quad.

It is actually a mid-drive motor, using a direct drive hub motor driving the rear axle.

A normal differential only drives one wheel anyway. I can lift up the front end of my car (front wheel drive) and spin either wheel freely, but I can't spin both wheels in the same direction without rotating the engine.
I can also put it in gear idling and with both wheels spinning in the air, I can stop either wheel from spinning by carefully grabbing the wheel to stop it.
The other wheel just spins twice as fast.

That's why my car has a limited slip differential available, so when you do a burnout, both wheels are powered and burning rubber.

But,.. I found this,..
A go-cart gearbox.

Maybe something like this, but a little less heavy duty?
(Maybe a version from a kids go-cart?)

 

[PCeBiker]

I took some more pictures from the video,..
It's got a regular chain on the motor to the drive sprocket, but it looks like the chain line is too short to install a free wheel or cassette?

Maybe just two or three sprockets on the axle, or a small gearbox?

I don't think adding a single regenerating motor to one side is smart because all the regenerating braking force would only go to that wheel.
A single regenerating motor replacing the original motor would do the same thing on the other wheel.

I think the only way to go with a Grin motor is to get two of them and do both rear wheels and just remove the original motor?

 

[DashRiprock]

It needs a mid-drive into a differential. Just crap having one power wheel on a quad.

If it could be outfitted as such easily, I would prefer a top of the line Bosch or similar mid-drive myself.
So much easier to work on and to get parts for in the future.
Not sure where they are power/torque-wise nowadays for this style of a bike yet I'd want the largest that they made and to keep a rear differential as you offered.

 

[DashRiprock]

I think the only way to go with a Grin motor is to get two of them and do both rear wheels and just remove the original motor?

I very much appreciate the research and your opinion as I haven't had the time to garner my own nor look at it that closely.
Not sure how the above suggestion (which I like) works with the OEM differential or axle yet I haven't looked at that setup either.
What I'd be concerned about is not losing the advantages that they have finally started to engineer in to these trikes/quads in terms of how the rear wheels are driven via these relatively new (to trikes/quads anyways) differentials.
If two Grins would give me the same control or better I'm all in yet I'm intrigued even further with the right way to set this up for safety especially as power/passengers are added.
Again, I like the core of this design save for the lack of suspension yet only want to cut it up once (I'm running out of time at my age).

 

[DashRiprock]

Again, I just want to thank you profusely for giving me(us) the opportunity to take a closer look at this all before it arrives and for offering your opinion of same.

 

[PCeBiker]

Again, I just want to thank you profusely for giving me(us) the opportunity to take a closer look at this all before it arrives and for offering your opinion of same.

I've only seen differentials and gearboxes on cars, and the one trike I looked at was pedal powered from the 70's or 80's.

There's also IGH, pinion gear drive trains and belt drives to think about.

An IGH is basically a gearbox that could be adapted to the Quad somehow?

The advantage of a mid-drive motor is that uses the gearing of the e-bike (cassette, free-wheel, IGH, pinion) to keep the motors rpm in the sweet spot.

On a regular hub drive, if you're going up a hill that's too steep, you will slow to a crawl or maybe even stall.
If your hub drive slows to a crawl, you still have 750 Watts going into the motor, but almost all of it gets turned into heat in the motor.
A hub motor has a speed limit too, and stops putting out power/torque after it gets to a certain speed/rpm.

A mid-drive let's you pick a lower gear to keep the motor spun up faster where it's more efficient, or you pick a higher gear to slow down the motor so it can keep helping.

That quad is half way there with it's mid-drive setup, but it only has one gear.

There's got to be something that can be done using available parts to add gearing to what you've got.

That 750 Watt motor should be plenty of power and torque if you can run it through some sort of gearing.


This is all just speculation on my part and I have no idea what is available or what would fit on your Quad.
Your Quad looks like it's half way towards being a true mid drive motor.
It just needs some gears between the motor and wheel.

A Grin motor alone won't change anything whether you mount it in the middle, or in one or both wheels.
It is still a single speed hub motor.

I think gearing is your answer.

 

[PCeBiker]

Keep in mind that the trike version rides differently than the quad version.
The trike leans into corners, but the quad stays level.
The guy said that the trike actually takes more skill, balance, and practice than a two-wheeled e-bike.

So if balance is an issue for you the quad would probably be a better choice.

I like the quad because it keeps all four wheels on the ground all the time, but it looks more difficult/expensive to modify.

 

[DashRiprock]

...just letting everyone know that I deleted some irrelevant posts in respect for the great folks at sixthreezero who brought us the subject of this topic. I still feel that it is the best quadricycle (for the price) on the market right now and that the videos speak for themselves. They are innovating at a level/pace like no other in this forum category that I am aware of and I have had nothing but positive (rare) one-on-one interactions with 630 Team members that I have never come close to having with other ebike manufacturers.
They are doing things right and their Anyterrain models will likely evolve in even more exciting directions.