Generic MD 1000 and HD 750 ebike model discussion

[FatTire]

While we're on the topic, I should reiterate checking the tightness of and thread locking the specialized fasteners on the front drive pulley behind your pedals. Mine all loosened quickly and I was fortunate not to lose any of them.

 

[RMK!]

Mine's set to 26, and I seemed to recall someone said upthread that Leili had set them to something else (but "upthread" comprises a lot of territory now). It makes sense as 26 is the wheel diameter but tire diameter can vary. Do you all have 4" or 4.8?

I understand being embarrassed about not having tried throttle+pedal, but there's so much to know about these bikes and that's why we're all here. I'd rather ask a stupid question than make a stupid mistake on the road. My bike seems to be programmed so that throttle kicks in at full power regardless of PAS setting, and I'm nt sure I can get full power while pedaling because the faster I go, the harder it is to pedal at a cadence that keeps torque on the pedals to tell the motor to help me.

Out riding, made friends with a subaru driver. My wife has one too so I joined him this morning on a dirt road over the ridge. It was fun until we got stuck and had to dig out, but even before then I kept thinking about how I'd rather be riding. He just bought that car, so there's nothing left in his budget for an ebike, and even if he could scrape together enough for a Himiway Cruiser, it'd have half the range and half the torque.

My biggest remaining gripe is the bubblegum crisis. That's when you're blowing a bubble and it'll collapse if you stop but pop if you don't. The analogous situation on a bike is starting up a steepenig hill in too high a gear to make it, but losing headway while you downshift. The solution is just to read the terrain, but my wife's a lot less experienced, so I don't want her to have that problem. Two ways to avoid it are with a hub motor or an automatic transmission. Out here I've realized that fat tires are a necessary safety feature; I got fat tires by mistake but whenever I dodge a car and wind up on soft sand I'm grateful. Plenty of fat tire bikes have 750W hubs, but I think she'll need a little extra to prevent overheating in Mojave summers. Evelo's Aurora Limited has the nviolo 380, but doesn't accommodate fat tires. Does anybody here know of a good bike for her that won't be a DIY project? Thanks.

The Maxxis Minions are 4.8".
Yeah, shifting in the middle of a hill is never a good idea. I find when pedaling hard up a hill the IGH tends to slip or phantom shift cutting out and restarting the motor under power. Based upon your experiences, simply changing out the IGH for a cassette/chain drive train does not completely resolve those issues. This is a horses for courses situation and although it does handle well for it's size, and is good for unpaved roads, the SA IGH equipped MD 1000 is clearly not built for black or even blue mountain bike trails. I had no interest in riding it on serious MT bike trails and considering the size/weight and drive train, I believe it is potentially dangerous when used in those situations.

After 1300 miles, I have found that carefully tightening and using loctite on all critical bolts/screws is necessary. Although I'm disappointed by the IGH's performance/reliability, the MD 1000 does meet my riding needs in terms of handling, comfort and range. If it came with a more reliable 3 speed or even single speed belt drive I would have zero complaints.

As to a bike for the wife, mine has a Blix Aveny and loves it but it is useless in sand. If fat tires are a requirement, there are many options but I'd keep it simple and cheap. The Lectric bikes are the best bang for the buck and not bad for all around use. If you're not in a hurry, the Sondors LX (reviewed here) might be a good choice.

 

[Boomski]

It was the 31.6mm Thudbuster I got. I dumped that and got the 27.2 with a 30.9(I’m sure) and it fits like a glove but I did sand the bikes down tube for the seat a little too. Hope you get it sorted bro.

Edit.. it may be the 30.4 sleeve I have too after reading RMK’s post. I’m out now but will check when I get home in a few hours.

I ended up cutting down the length of my 30.9 Thudbuster shaft by a couple of inches to get it down to a comfortable riding height and just installed it like that .... so far so good. By the way Leili eventually confirmed to me that the seat tube is 30.4 too.
Thanks

 

[GEF]

I find when pedaling hard up a hill the IGH tends to slip or phantom shift cutting out and restarting the motor under power. Based upon your experiences, simply changing out the IGH for a cassette/chain drive train does not completely resolve those issues.

Just to be clear, I have 11 gears, and I have no issue with the first 10. I also have no issue with top gear if I'm already at speed when I shift into it, or when pedaling in low assist even from a dead stop. It's only when I apply hi power at low speed in top gear that I experience phantom shifting - y'know, when I feel the resistance and reflexively thumb the throttle for a boost.

the SA IGH equipped MD 1000 is clearly not built for black or even blue mountain bike trails.

Around here, I haven't found any bike trails, just people on the internet complaining that there are none. What we do have are jeep trails, which don't come with any signs telling me what difficulty to expect. There's some gorgeous scenery (literally - looking over gorges) that you can't see from any paved road, but I'm trying to stick to dirt roads or level trails. Going up steep and crumbling trails is when I doubt my own abilities, let alone the bike's. I'm talking about hills too steep for me to climb without help from the motor, but I have to find just the right gear, because too high doesn't produce enough torque, but too low produces so much that it just throws sand out from under the tire instead of moving me forward. And if I get up, then I have to come down, and gravity gives me enough speed that I'll lose traction before the inevitable curve next to cliff edge. I have no idea if that's equivalent to a "black" trail, but I scouted one like that in my subaru, and when the hill started crumbling my car slipped sideways toward the edge instead of climbing, so I had to dig trenches for the tires just to back out. I was there with a buddy, but he's no interest in biking, alas. For me, the bike is much more fun, and I actually think it would handle some terrain better than a car, but surrounded by peaks that block cell signal, I'm just too chicken to go out there alone.

Here's a situation I keep encountering: Riding single-lane rutted dirt road, come to a dangerous area and turn back. If there's enough sand, a U-turn is sketchy so I'll try to keep my feet near the ground, but crossing sideways across a rut, both tires are on ground higher than what's directly underneath me. That's where I feel like the bike is too big for me, even with the dropper post lowered, though I'm 6'1".

After 1300 miles, I have found that carefully tightening and using loctite on all critical bolts/screws is necessary.

After half as many miles, that's at the top of my to-do list. I'm mostly exploring bumpity dirt roads, discovering the beauty of the place I've lived for a decade. I'm riding most days after work, and getting better at gauging my speed to stay upright on sand, but it's still slow going which means I'm getting less than 30 miles per day. I pull cactus thorns out of my tires after every ride but the Tannus inserts are still working great, no flats.

As to a bike for the wife, mine has a Blix Aveny and loves it but it is useless in sand. If fat tires are a requirement, there are many options but I'd keep it simple and cheap. The Lectric bikes are the best bang for the buck and not bad for all around use. If you're not in a hurry, the Sondors LX (reviewed here) might be a good choice.

The Aveny is lovely and just her style, but the major cross street to my housing edition has a soft sandy shoulder and speeding cars that'll force you onto it. I'll check out the LX, thanks. Also looking at Lectric XP and Himiway Cruiser Step-Through. She won't ride in all the places I do, but for the heat here, I'd prefer a bit of excess torque.

Happy Easter everyone.

 

[Vewlix]

Quick question but did anyone order the GPS tracker with their bike from Leili as I would love to know if it’s worth the cost and how it works?

 

[RMK!]

Just to be clear, I have 11 gears, and I have no issue with the first 10. I also have no issue with top gear if I'm already at speed when I shift into it, or when pedaling in low assist even from a dead stop. It's only when I apply hi power at low speed in top gear that I experience phantom shifting - y'know, when I feel the resistance and reflexively thumb the throttle for a boost.



Around here, I haven't found any bike trails, just people on the internet complaining that there are none. What we do have are jeep trails, which don't come with any signs telling me what difficulty to expect. There's some gorgeous scenery (literally - looking over gorges) that you can't see from any paved road, but I'm trying to stick to dirt roads or level trails. Going up steep and crumbling trails is when I doubt my own abilities, let alone the bike's. I'm talking about hills too steep for me to climb without help from the motor, but I have to find just the right gear, because too high doesn't produce enough torque, but too low produces so much that it just throws sand out from under the tire instead of moving me forward. And if I get up, then I have to come down, and gravity gives me enough speed that I'll lose traction before the inevitable curve next to cliff edge. I have no idea if that's equivalent to a "black" trail, but I scouted one like that in my subaru, and when the hill started crumbling my car slipped sideways toward the edge instead of climbing, so I had to dig trenches for the tires just to back out. I was there with a buddy, but he's no interest in biking, alas. For me, the bike is much more fun, and I actually think it would handle some terrain better than a car, but surrounded by peaks that block cell signal, I'm just too chicken to go out there alone.

Here's a situation I keep encountering: Riding single-lane rutted dirt road, come to a dangerous area and turn back. If there's enough sand, a U-turn is sketchy so I'll try to keep my feet near the ground, but crossing sideways across a rut, both tires are on ground higher than what's directly underneath me. That's where I feel like the bike is too big for me, even with the dropper post lowered, though I'm 6'1".



After half as many miles, that's at the top of my to-do list. I'm mostly exploring bumpity dirt roads, discovering the beauty of the place I've lived for a decade. I'm riding most days after work, and getting better at gauging my speed to stay upright on sand, but it's still slow going which means I'm getting less than 30 miles per day. I pull cactus thorns out of my tires after every ride but the Tannus inserts are still working great, no flats.



The Aveny is lovely and just her style, but the major cross street to my housing edition has a soft sandy shoulder and speeding cars that'll force you onto it. I'll check out the LX, thanks. Also looking at Lectric XP and Himiway Cruiser Step-Through. She won't ride in all the places I do, but for the heat here, I'd prefer a bit of excess torque.

Happy Easter everyone.

Thanks for the feedback. Riding in the CA high desert must be very cool (pun intended). Your summer temps are only 110 - 120, right? . I know the Biktirx is an 11 speed. That makes high gear a bit farther out from the center line of the bike than a 9 speed. How does the chain (in high gear) to front chainring angle look? That could be the cause of the high gear slipping and an extra spacer on the cog or chainring might resolve this. You should check with Biktrix.

The replacement wheel kit from Leili is in the attached photos. It includes a full 9 speed SRAM drivetrain. I'm going to wait a bit to install as I am still getting ok performance from the IGH if I keep it adjusted, run in ECO mode at lower assist levels and don't pedal too hard uphill. Those are some stupid caveats to include with a rugged looking bike like the MD 1000 but I made this choice knowing there was a risk of IGH failure. Leili should have never fitted this bike with that fragile drive train and they should do more that just discount the replacement parts. It will be interesting to see what Bikonit/Bolton do with the hundreds of SA IGH belt equipped MD 1000's they have sold. Unless there is something I'm missing here, all of the SA RX RK5 IGH's will have problems from just annoying to catastrophic.

 

[tykoehn1]

Thanks for the feedback. I know the Biktirx was an 11 speed. That may make high gear a bit farther out from the center line of the bike than a 9 speed. How does the chain (in high gear) to front chainring angle look? That could be the cause of the high gear slipping. I just painted the new derailleur parts flat black. They come unpainted aluminum. The replacement wheel kit from Leili looks like this:

Is that a thru axle like the front? Is it 10mm?

 

[RMK!]

Is that a thru axle like the front? Is it 10mm?

Yes, but it's 12mm diameter, 220mm length

 

[tykoehn1]

It's 12mm diameter, 220mm lengthView attachment 83732

Hmm I wonder if I get the brackets for leili for the thru axle conversion. The o.l.d. spacing is 190mm. The Kindernay XIV fatbike for 190mm spacing only comes with a 10mm axle. Looks like I could make the brackets at home for a 10mm thru axle. I can't get a thru axle for 190mm spacing with the rohloff. Some one please correct me if I am incorrect about the spacing.

 

[RMK!]

Hmm I wonder if I get the brackets for leili for the thru axle conversion. The o.l.d. spacing is 190mm. The Kindernay XIV fatbike for 190mm spacing only comes with a 10mm axle. Looks like I could make the brackets at home for a 10mm thru axle. I can't get a thru axle for 190mm spacing with the rohloff. Some one please correct me if I am incorrect about the spacing.

The Kindernay looks interesting but I'm going to see what Leili or Bikonit/Bolton come up with as far as a retro fit IGH. If the old axel is 10mm, and the SRAM replacement is 12mm, that might explain the axel break you experienced. Heavy as this bike is, better to fit stout materials in venerable areas.

As great as the concept of a IGH belt drive for this bike was, the RX RK5 was just a very poor choice. With hundreds on units sold, I have to believe they will need to come up with something.

 

[GEF]

Thanks for the feedback. Riding in the CA high desert must be very cool (pun intended). Your summer temps are only 110 - 120, right? .

Yeah, 110 not unusual in Yucca Valley, thanks to the altitude, but hotter as I go downhill. In my research, I found a 1000-mile review of the Aventon Level from a guy whose motor overheated while riding on a "mountain" road on a "hot" day. He didn't say how steep the mountain was, but his idea of hot was only 80 degrees Fahrenheit! It's 87 here today, and only April. Since air cooling won't work here in summer, that means I need a motor that won't get as hot in the first place, meaning one with more torque than a given hill or headwind would otherwise require. And that's what makes it hard to find a bike for my wife: A mid drive has more torque but requires you to shift appropriately, and she lacks the experience to do that. The nviolo cvt alleviates the problem, but it's not available on a fat bike.

I know the Biktirx is an 11 speed. That makes high gear a bit farther out from the center line of the bike than a 9 speed. How does the chain (in high gear) to front chainring angle look?

I don't have a protractor, but it's quite noticeable, maybe 5 degrees.

 

[tykoehn1]

The Kindernay looks interesting but I'm going to see what Leili or Bikonit/Bolton come up with as far as a retro fit IGH. If the old axel is 10mm, and the SRAM replacement is 12mm, that might explain the axel break you experienced. Heavy as this bike is, better to fit stout materials in venerable areas.

As great as the concept of a IGH belt drive for this bike was, the RX RK5 was just a very poor choice. With hundreds on units sold, I have to believe they will need to come up with something.

The Kindernay looks interesting but I'm going to see what Leili or Bikonit/Bolton come up with as far as a retro fit IGH. If the old axel is 10mm, and the SRAM replacement is 12mm, that might explain the axel break you experienced. Heavy as this bike is, better to fit stout materials in venerable areas.

As great as the concept of a IGH belt drive for this bike was, the RX RK5 was just a very poor choice. With hundreds on units sold, I have to believe they will need to come up with something.

The old axle isn't a thru axle, just a standard axle (not sure what it's called). I see the thru axles ighs are rated for downhill which is promising. The Kindernay XIV is rated for 160nm of torque too. Idk what I'm going to do yet, but tuning the throttle and pas had help relieve the initial jolt on the igh.

 

[RMK!]

The old axle isn't a thru axle, just a standard axle (not sure what it's called). I see the thru axles ighs are rated for downhill which is promising. The Kindernay XIV is rated for 160nm of torque too. Idk what I'm going to do yet, but tuning the throttle and pas had help relieve the initial jolt on the igh.

I'd like to see what you have done with the settings. What cable did you use?

 

[GEF]

I'm sidelined, derailleur caught in spokes when I shifted gears. Also teeth bent on one of the gears on the cassette. Not sure I can blame this on the motor because it happened just after I took a tumble on a rutted dirt road. Didn't seem like a big deal when it happened, no harm to me the rider, but the right brake lever was bent. I should have checked for more damage before trying to ride it home, seems I have me share of stupidity. Here's hoping new parts won't be out of stock for months.

 

[RMK!]

Anyone have overheating issues with the Bafang Ultra? I went for a short (20 mile) fast ride this afternoon and the bike started acting strangely about 15 miles in. Power was reduced and at times the throttle was un responsive. I was using Sport mode PAS 3 in 5th gear pedaling hard averaging over 25mph. When I got home (55% battery remaining) the motor housing was very hot so I'm thinking it was the result of a thermal protection circuit on the bike. The temp today was only 75 degrees so it doesn't bode well for riding in the summer heat.

 

[GEF]

Anyone have overheating issues with the Bafang Ultra? I went for a short (20 mile) fast ride this afternoon and the bike started acting strangely about 15 miles in. Power was reduced and at times the throttle was un responsive. I was using Sport mode PAS 3 in 5th gear pedaling hard averaging over 25mph. When I got home (55% battery remaining) the motor housing was very hot so I'm thinking it was the result of a thermal protection circuit on the bike. The temp today was only 75 degrees so it doesn't bode well for riding in the summer heat.

That's very concerning as heat is the main reason I went with Bafang Ultra, and Biktrix claimed I should be fine up to 120 even with hills. I have had no issues but so far I think my hottest day riding has been under 90. Whenever I had power issues it turned out I had bumped the PAS level by mistake.

 

[GEF]

I'm sidelined, derailleur caught in spokes when I shifted gears.

Loccal bike shop says they can get SRAM parts, Biktrix is sending me the rest, $100 for brake and $40 each for derailleur hangers. Total bill for me will run to $700. On one hand, most of the damage wouldn't have happened to an IGH. On the other hand, had I the presence of mind to inspect my bike after I laid it down, I might have resolved the issue by tightening a set screw and avoided this.

 

[RMK!]

That's very concerning as heat is the main reason I went with Bafang Ultra, and Biktrix claimed I should be fine up to 120 even with hills. I have had no issues but so far I think my hottest day riding has been under 90. Whenever I had power issues it turned out I had bumped the PAS level by mistake.

I was running it Sport mode, PAS 3,4, and some 5, high gear and pedaling hard. Today, longer ride (35 miles), a little warmer using ECO mode, PAS 3-4 high gear pedaling hard with no issues. It's weird that it went into thermal protect yesterday but didn't give me an error code. The motor case was very hot so I guessed at the reason for the power drop.

 

[carp]

catstrophic IGH failure yesterday.... pedaling up a moderate hill on PAS 5 and the rear drive sprocket slipped out of the three notches and then proceeded to rip the bearing cage apart... now what? Can this be rebuilt? Whats the best replacement option that isnt going to grenade when I go into the backcountry hunting on some potentially gnarly terrain? I noticed the Rohloffs are quite a bit "beefier" and more expensive, but I figured in for a penny in for a pound... The thing I noticed with Rohloff is the shifter is opposite of the Sturmey IGH. How does one rectify that shifter situation? Is there a less expensive option with perhaps the Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub? Do they make 190mm size? I reached out to Cindy Lan and she gave me a SRAM option for around $400 shipped. Would this be more "reliable" in the back country? Im pretty pissed at this point....

 

[RMK!]

catstrophic IGH failure yesterday.... pedaling up a moderate hill on PAS 5 and the rear drive sprocket slipped out of the three notches and then proceeded to rip the bearing cage apart... now what? Can this be rebuilt? Whats the best replacement option that isnt going to grenade when I go into the backcountry hunting on some potentially gnarly terrain? I noticed the Rohloffs are quite a bit "beefier" and more expensive, but I figured in for a penny in for a pound... The thing I noticed with Rohloff is the shifter is opposite of the Sturmey IGH. How does one rectify that shifter situation? Is there a less expensive option with perhaps the Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub? Do they make 190mm size? I reached out to Cindy Lan and she gave me a SRAM option for around $400 shipped. Would this be more "reliable" in the back country? Im pretty pissed at this point....

Sorry that happened. If you don't mind I have a couple of questions

Did you tighten the chrome plated axel nut (both sides) on the bike anytime after you received it?

You mentioned being in PAS 5, what gear were you in and were you pedaling and or using the throttle at that time?

Clearly, the SA RX-RK5 IGH is not suitable for this powerful ebike. As a backcountry hunting rider, I believe the SRAM option would be the best short term option and would be the easiest and least expensive to repair/replace. As for other IGH's, the implementation of one of these by a customer would not be a simple plug and play situation e.g. expensive and complicated. I'm aware that Leili as well as Bikonit and Bolton are on a day forward basis, looking for a replacement IGH belt drive.

I hope they will consider the current user base when implementing this IGH-belt replacement. Leili informed me that Bikonit is reporting many problems with the SA IGH and that should increase the chances of a retrofit IGH for the current customer base. Leili told me they were going to evaluate several IGH units and that might take some time. Again, in your situation and use case, I think the SRAM option might be the best drivetrain for you. I have over 1500 miles on my SA IGH although currently, every ride includes at least some minor slippage of the IGH belt as well as more violent (noisy) ghost shifting and motor cutoffs. Since I purchased 2 extra batteries I no longer have range anxiety with the MD 1000 but I, as well as virtually everyone else who owns this model is now afflicted with drivetrain anxiety.

I have tried to be reasonable about this issue and if you read this thread and the other review thread here on EBR, I was aware of a certain amount of risk associated with the SA IGH. The direct communication (PDF attached below) with Sturmey Archers US representative gave me more confidence that possible issues with the IGH could be mitigated by careful operation (no shifting under load) and ongoing cable adjustment due to cable stretch. I carefully followed those instructions as well as making sure the drivetrain nuts and bolts were properly tightened. Despite my taking all of those precautions, 1500 miles in I am convinced that the SA RX-RK5 IGH is not a reliable drivetrain for this ebike. It is now up to the sellers of this bike to make it right with the many owners of this model.

I purchased the SRAM replacement kit (same price you were quoted) and will install it if (actually when) my IGH fails but my preference would be to have a functional and reliable IGH on this bike. I expect the manufacturer and their business partners will come up with an upgrade IGH solution. In the spirit of good customer service, they should offer this upgrade to the existing client base for free or at least, at a reasonable cost. I for one, will be carefully watching this situation and I advise all other MD 1000 owners to do the same.