Electric Car thread

[PDoz]

Firstly the sales guy told me they are all from Russia no less, and no one's buying them.
He said the depreciation is so bad that they have to charge more for a two year old on finance than you pay to buy it new.
They had a Peugeot 2008 EV, 37 grand new, two years old, 15 grand and no one wants it

Someone is confused.

If a 2 yo vehicle on finance costs more than a new one, there are explanations that make a LOT more sense than the sales guys fuzzy logic:

Used prices were elevated due to supply issues and the moron still hasn't caught up?
Or, more likely, manufacturer / govt discounts for buying an EV are MORE than the depreciation on a 2 yo EV.

As for the Peugeot - it's a compact SUV , marketed at fashion conscious young people who think they can afford to make a statement in vehicle choice, and the company vehicle was on a 12 month lease because HR knew they'd be jumping between employers twice within that t8me frame..... Think boutique handbags or fashion clothes donated to homeless people. Nobody pays 50% of new retail for 2 yo fashion items. More importantly, no self respecting spoilt bratt wants to be driving a 2 year old EV ! Unfortunately, no 60 yo environmentally aware couple wants to try contorting their old bodies into it, either.

 

[PDoz]

BTW , I'm back here again trying to see if there is an EV yet that can tow a 2 tonne boat up a ramp then 50 metres to where it is parked. But not be some massive ego statement

 

[Readytoride]

BTW , I'm back here again trying to see if there is an EV yet that can tow a 2 tonne boat up a ramp then 50 metres to where it is parked. But not be some massive ego statement

There is. It's a Rivian. My R1T can pull 11,000 lbs. (Apparently 1,000 lbs more towing capacity than a Ford Lightening)

 

[PDoz]

There is. It's a Rivian. My R1T can pull 11,000 lbs. (Apparently 1,000 lbs more towing capacity than a Ford Lightening)

Unfortunately a few years away from Australia , and possibly a bit bigger than I want. I currently use a ford ranger for dragging the boat and dislike the relatively long wheelbase / turning circle. We live rural, but some tighter 4x4 tracks are hard to negotiate

 

[Readytoride]

Unfortunately a few years away from Australia , and possibly a bit bigger than I want. I currently use a ford ranger for dragging the boat and dislike the relatively long wheelbase / turning circle. We live rural, but some tighter 4x4 tracks are hard to negotiate

Sorry. Forgot the international scope of this forum. Yeah, Rivian is still US based, and I assume will be for quite some time. It is 6 inches (15.1 cm) longer than the Ranger, but shorter than an F150.

Supposedly a Tesla Model X can tow 5,500 lbs.

 

[Chargeride]

Porsche and german car fanboys like to think their brand is beyond reproach, but in my experience car salesman of every single brand (Porsche, Mercedes, BMW etc.) lie and spread verifiably false misinformation. It's a slimy industry.

I wasnt buying anything and he's very much in favour of EVs, he was actually lamenting the disinterest, the reason it's more expensive is because the finance company are covering the increased risk of payment default.
They are obliged to fill the showroom with EVs, they are great eye candy, but haven't sold a single one in three weeks, and that was a little micro car version.

 

[Chargeride]

The KIA EV9 is huge in person, amazing looking car, the pictures don't do it justice, all black is the best colour in my opinion, completely out of my price range, completely throws the notion of saving the planet out of the window and my social interaction trend is not to drive such in your face exhibitionism of success.

 

[kevinmccune]

I envy you not having to make any more trips to the gas station. I still have to go for gas and diesel for the small and large tractors. Sucks that battery garden tractors and zero turns still aren't ready for prime time beyond the suburban landscape. For farm use they just aren't capable as yet. They are still making the newest battery garden tractors with those little bitty batteries. If I could outfit one with a marine battery, I'd be in heaven. Easy to recharge using a solar panel, or a plug in battery tender.

look again there are some lawn tractors pro grade and long runtime,the only caveat is the cost.

 

[kevinmccune]

He said there's a six month waiting list to order them from Korea, but they import them from Russia in six weeks.
He pointed to all the cars and said they all came from Russia.
Not built in Russia

had a salesman tell me your car is your 2nd biggest investment( money pits are not investment),not!

 

[Roamers]

look again there are some lawn tractors pro grade and long runtime,the only caveat is the cost.

Lots of big e-stuff

Alternative Energy

We're innovating with less environmental impact by introducing zero-emissions electric and hybrid-electric solutions to new fields of work by 2026.

about.deere.com

 

[WattsUpDude]

Yesterday, I had a chance to check out Electrify America’s flagship location in SF. It has twenty 350 kW plugs, two lounge areas, a family restroom and an onsite security guard. I don’t DCFC much but this was the best experience as far as public charging. When I came in there were 3 open spots and by the time I left, there were 5 open spots. This is the type of charging solution that urban apartment dwellers can benefit from. I hope to see more of these in the more crowded metro areas.

 

[Bicyclista]

I don’t DCFC much...

DCFC = Detroit City Football Club. Yeah, I root for LAFC myself. Or the SD Wave!

 

[BigNerd]

They should build these in vacant parking lots like office buildings where many went remote or outdoor malls that are dead during the evening.

Or just retrofit parking garages that aren't as crowded anymore.

 

[Dorkyman]

Article today on CNBC on how "EV Euphoria is dead." All the automakers that said last year that they would stop ICE vehicle production are now frantically backtracking. I have a Lexus hybrid (made by Toyota) and have admired Toyota senior execs for holding their ground regarding their disdain for EV fanaticism and instead firmly holding their ground on hybrids. They were mocked for years, but it looks to me like Toyota has been exactly right.

Politicians have been virtue-signalling for years about "saving the planet," knowing full well that they will be retired by the time the ICE bans begin crushing the economy. Looking at you, California.

EV euphoria is dead. Automakers are scaling back or delaying their electric vehicle plans

Automakers from Ford and GM to Mercedes-Benz, Volkswagen and Aston Martin are scaling back or delaying their electric vehicle plans.

www.cnbc.com

 

[teskow]

I'm a fan of the old air cooled VW's, I had lots of them as a kid. I'd buy a new one today if I could.
I like the soon to come electric VW bus. At least they tried to stay true to the original design as far as the aesthetics and didn't just poach the name. I can kind of see the old air cooled bus in the look. The specs so far look pretty good too. If it ever gets here, I'll look.

As a young person I too had VW autos. Most were the 36 horsepower ones. So noisy you had to yell to talk. No headwind maybe 60 MPH. Very little cabin heat if any. Set the valves real often. For a small car they didn't get very good gas mileage either, like 26 or 27. Yes the big V8's did about 1/2 that so in that respect it was great.
Do I want to go back there, no way.

 

[gromike]

As a young person I too had VW autos. Most were the 36 horsepower ones. So noisy you had to yell to talk. No headwind maybe 60 MPH. Very little cabin heat if any. Set the valves real often. For a small car they didn't get very good gas mileage either, like 26 or 27. Yes the big V8's did about 1/2 that so in that respect it was great.
Do I want to go back there, no way.

I did like driving those old beetles, though the early ones were severely underpowered. Which was good because the brakes were so bad. And the 6 volt electrical system made push starting them a regular occurrence.
My parents had a '64 camper bus, and it was remarkable that we all didn't die in that thing. They then had '71 camper, and outside of burnt exhaust valves, it did pretty good. I had a '87 vanagon camper, and to me it was a great car. Volkswagen finally perfected their rear engine vehicles, IMO. I drove that thing 200k miles, never had to pull the heads or replace the clutch.

As for ev's, I am interested in the VW ID.Buzz microbus.

 

[PatriciaK]

Article today on CNBC on how "EV Euphoria is dead." All the automakers that said last year that they would stop ICE vehicle production are now frantically backtracking. I have a Lexus hybrid (made by Toyota) and have admired Toyota senior execs for holding their ground regarding their disdain for EV fanaticism and instead firmly holding their ground on hybrids. They were mocked for years, but it looks to me like Toyota has been exactly right.

Politicians have been virtue-signalling for years about "saving the planet," knowing full well that they will be retired by the time the ICE bans begin crushing the economy. Looking at you, California.

EV euphoria is dead. Automakers are scaling back or delaying their electric vehicle plans

Automakers from Ford and GM to Mercedes-Benz, Volkswagen and Aston Martin are scaling back or delaying their electric vehicle plans.

www.cnbc.com

What a lot of these stories fail to report is that demand for EVs continues to grow - it's the rate of GROWTH in demand that is slowing, not demand itself. Like any new technology, there will be fits and starts. As the charging network continues to be built out, people will be much more amenable to purchasing an EV. And, it's not just "virtue signaling" about saving the planet either, though that is real. The lifetime cost of owning an EV is immensely less than that of an ICE vehicle. Zero gasoline cost (yes, electric cost, but that's lower). Zero oil changes. Zero engine maintenance (the electric motor is much simpler and practically zero moving parts to wear out). Zero engine fluids (radiator, transmission). Price is an issue right now, but as more vehicles come to the market, that initial price will fall, too.

A plug-in hybrid still comes with all the maintenance costs of an ICE vehicle, though those would probably be lower since most driving would be on the electric motor/battery. Regular hybrid vehicles still use petroleum, though less of it. I get that people are not comfortable yet with EVs, and hybrids make them feel better.

Norway is an interesting example of a nation that basically ditched ICE vehicles very quickly. They made the transition happen, because they wanted to make it happen. They're beginning to phase out hybrid incentives now, reserving them mostly for EVs. Yes, Norway produces a lot of petrolrum. But they've also demonstrated that the change can happen pretty quickly, with the right incentives, quickly building out the charging network, and a government and people committed to doing what it takes.

PS I still want my Hyundai Kona EV !

 

[kevinmccune]

What a lot of these stories fail to report is that demand for EVs continues to grow - it's the rate of GROWTH in demand that is slowing, not demand itself. Like any new technology, there will be fits and starts. As the charging network continues to be built out, people will be much more amenable to purchasing an EV. And, it's not just "virtue signaling" about saving the planet either, though that is real. The lifetime cost of owning an EV is immensely less than that of an ICE vehicle. Zero gasoline cost (yes, electric cost, but that's lower). Zero oil changes. Zero engine maintenance (the electric motor is much simpler and practically zero moving parts to wear out). Zero engine fluids (radiator, transmission). Price is an issue right now, but as more vehicles come to the market, that initial price will fall, too.

A plug-in hybrid still comes with all the maintenance costs of an ICE vehicle, though those would probably be lower since most driving would be on the electric motor/battery. Regular hybrid vehicles still use petroleum, though less of it. I get that people are not comfortable yet with EVs, and hybrids make them feel better.

Norway is an interesting example of a nation that basically ditched ICE vehicles very quickly. They made the transition happen, because they wanted to make it happen. They're beginning to phase out hybrid incentives now, reserving them mostly for EVs. Yes, Norway produces a lot of petrolrum. But they've also demonstrated that the change can happen pretty quickly, with the right incentives, quickly building out the charging network, and a government and people committed to doing what it takes.

PS I still want my Hyundai Kona EV !

i want something electric as well,i would hate to think my portable cordless tools had an ice engine on them.

 

[scrambler]

I think for the people who cannot live with a pure electric car for charging problems, we need a different type of hybrid as I detailed below

Wondering about this idea for a different type of Hybrid.

www.gm-volt.com

 

[Dorkyman]

This topic can easily turn into a flame war, which does little good for either point of view.

I'd gently suggest that the rate of growth is rapidly declining, and manufacturers are no longer claiming they will ditch ICE vehicles.

Secondly, while there is a cost savings on "fuel" there is a brutal depreciation hit, and insurance I've read is also much higher. Maintenance? These days an ICE from a premium manufacturer requires very few repairs over its lifetime. I've read (can't recall where at the moment) that an EV requires 2/3 the shop time of an ICE vehicle. So there's a savings there, but not huge.

To add my own situation (I know, just a single data point, but still), we bought a gently-used Toyota hybrid RAV4 off a major Ford dealership here in Oregon last fall. I talked with the sales people about the Mustang Mach-E in the showroom and they pointed to the lot outside. "There are two entire rows of Mach-E's out there;" demand has plummeted. And this is in Oregon, considered a very green state.

A plug-in eliminates the range anxiety EV issue but all you're really saving is one gallon of gas per trip, since the battery only takes you 30-40 miles before exhaustion.

As an engineer (EE) I'm always interested in new technologies, but I find it a bit irritating to see the religious fervor that some folks have regarding EVs.