Electric Car thread

mrgold35 said:
I wish automakers would provide more hybrid and plug-in hybrid options to fill the gap until the EV infrastructure is built up. I have two hybrid vehicles (19 Acura MDX and 18 RLX). They are not plug-in hybrids, has the same mpgs for city/combined/highway travel, both have 30-70 more hp/tq than the gas models, improved handling/performance with awd tq vectoring/regen braking, and $1500 MSRP compared to exact same gas model.

I live in the southwest USA and it can be 2-8 hours at 75-80 mph to major cities with a decent (and working) charging network. Factor in below freezing weather, wind, extreme heat, and elevation change from sea level to +11,000 foot mountain pass that limits EV range. It takes me around 11 hours with one 5-10 min gas stop to drive 700 miles with my hybrids. Depending on the EV, it could take me 13-16 hours in an electric car depending on weather and charging network availability.
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told a hydrogen fanatic friend a long time ago i thought the most reasonable alternative would be a hybrid vehicle and yes it it would be nice if the hybrids had a 40-50 plug in range( like the old chevy volt) i could go weeks before starting the gas engine( we couldnt have that now could we?) even withits impressive mpg the ford maverick is a joke( still want one)
 
Chargeride said:
It was brought home to me last week, the wife slid on ice and crashed over a kerb, slicing through the sump.
I've decided to fix it myself, only 25 quid for a new one and insurance excess is 450.

If that had been an EV the battery would be toast and the rest is history.
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you really think so? a lot of these batteries are virtual skid plates,the alloy sump is very fragile( a virtual egg shell) the steel sump is tougher as long as it doesnt foul the crankshaft( know all about that)
 
I have 2 Konas. 1 is EV and 1 is a leased ICE Kona and the lease is up in about a year. I think my next vehicle will be a hybrid. Now gotta figure out which one! The EV is an around town grocery getter that gives me range anxiety any time I leave my village...
 
kevinmccune said:
told a hydrogen fanatic friend a long time ago i thought the most reasonable alternative would be a hybrid vehicle and yes it it would be nice if the hybrids had a 40-50 plug in range( like the old chevy volt) i could go weeks before starting the gas engine( we couldnt have that now could we?) even withits impressive mpg the ford maverick is a joke( still want one)
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My MDX/RLX hybrids are performance hybrids with the same EV system components you find in the +$150,000 Acura NSX sport car (just have a different V-6 engine for each vehicle). Increased performance, handling, and braking using EV components with the side effect of improved mpgs instead of using Turbos and/or supercharger. These vehicles would need a battery pack 7X-10X larger/heavier/take up more space to get +25 mile plug-in EV range. Starting to see more vehicles today that are leaning towards performance hybrids with the side effect of improved mpgs.

It seems hybrid vehicles of the past were low performance mpgs hybrid like the Toyota Prius/Camry or Honda Insight/Civic. That might be stuck in some potential buyer's heads since BEVs have +2X the performance compared to gas only and gas/hybrid versions. Factor in a lot hybrid models had a +$5000 premium for these low performance hybrids with break even cost +10 years out. Plus, all the issues, higher cost, and maintenance requirements with pure EVs and internal combustion only vehicles are now rolling into a hybrid vehicle (worst of both worlds type of thing long term). The integration of EV/ICE tech together and having it work seamlessly for +200,000 miles is very difficult compared to separate ICE or EV software alone.

I can understand why hybrid/plug-in hybrids are a low priority compared to just jumping ahead to BEVs. Switching to EVs reminds me of those old pictures of New York city at around 1900 when horse/buggy was the main form of transportation (ton of horse crap in the city streets, smell, health concerns). Switching to the automobile was the answer and infrastructure soon followed years/decades later along with improvements with features, range, performance, safety, and options with each model year. Gas powered cars are our version of "horse & buggy". It is going to take time and several generations before we see the benefits of EVs.


Morton Street NY.jpg
 
mrgold35 said:
My MDX/RLX hybrids are performance hybrids with the same EV system components you find in the +$150,000 Acura NSX sport car (just have a different V-6 engine for each vehicle). Increased performance, handling, and braking using EV components with the side effect of improved mpgs instead of using Turbos and/or supercharger. These vehicles would need a battery pack 7X-10X larger/heavier/take up more space to get +25 mile plug-in EV range. Starting to see more vehicles today that are leaning towards performance hybrids with the side effect of improved mpgs.

It seems hybrid vehicles of the past were low performance mpgs hybrid like the Toyota Prius/Camry or Honda Insight/Civic. That might be stuck in some potential buyer's heads since BEVs have +2X the performance compared to gas only and gas/hybrid versions. Factor in a lot hybrid models had a +$5000 premium for these low performance hybrids with break even cost +10 years out. Plus, all the issues, higher cost, and maintenance requirements with pure EVs and internal combustion only vehicles are now rolling into a hybrid vehicle (worst of both worlds type of thing long term). The integration of EV/ICE tech together and having it work seamlessly for +200,000 miles is very difficult compared to separate ICE or EV software alone.

I can understand why hybrid/plug-in hybrids are a low priority compared to just jumping ahead to BEVs. Switching to EVs reminds me of those old pictures of New York city at around 1900 when horse/buggy was the main form of transportation (ton of horse crap in the city streets, smell, health concerns). Switching to the automobile was the answer and infrastructure soon followed years/decades later along with improvements with features, range, performance, safety, and options with each model year. Gas powered cars are our version of "horse & buggy". It is going to take time and several generations before we see the benefits of EVs.


View attachment 170028
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the greenies would love that, more poo for the tomatoes-the maverick has a space in the floor pan for an extra battery( its vacant) and a reocurring theme is the drivelines are dumbed down enough to not be able to outperform the pure ice drivelines some may not be most are and even in the fruck world the manufacturers are careful to make sure the ev driveline doesnt out perform the diesel ones( hey- everybody is not tesla)
 
mrgold35 said:
My MDX/RLX hybrids are performance hybrids with the same EV system components you find in the +$150,000 Acura NSX sport car (just have a different V-6 engine for each vehicle). Increased performance, handling, and braking using EV components with the side effect of improved mpgs instead of using Turbos and/or supercharger. These vehicles would need a battery pack 7X-10X larger/heavier/take up more space to get +25 mile plug-in EV range. Starting to see more vehicles today that are leaning towards performance hybrids with the side effect of improved mpgs.

It seems hybrid vehicles of the past were low performance mpgs hybrid like the Toyota Prius/Camry or Honda Insight/Civic. That might be stuck in some potential buyer's heads since BEVs have +2X the performance compared to gas only and gas/hybrid versions. Factor in a lot hybrid models had a +$5000 premium for these low performance hybrids with break even cost +10 years out. Plus, all the issues, higher cost, and maintenance requirements with pure EVs and internal combustion only vehicles are now rolling into a hybrid vehicle (worst of both worlds type of thing long term). The integration of EV/ICE tech together and having it work seamlessly for +200,000 miles is very difficult compared to separate ICE or EV software alone.

I can understand why hybrid/plug-in hybrids are a low priority compared to just jumping ahead to BEVs. Switching to EVs reminds me of those old pictures of New York city at around 1900 when horse/buggy was the main form of transportation (ton of horse crap in the city streets, smell, health concerns). Switching to the automobile was the answer and infrastructure soon followed years/decades later along with improvements with features, range, performance, safety, and options with each model year. Gas powered cars are our version of "horse & buggy". It is going to take time and several generations before we see the benefits of EVs.


View attachment 170028
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it seems the prius drivetrain is pretty bulletproof relatively speaking
 
Sorry, but...that photo isn't showing manure. It's showing rocks and rock debris. Ask me how I know (closing on 50 years of owning horses and shoveling their manure daily). Whoever titled this photo as showing a manure laden street did so in (it feels like deliberate) error. I think they were trying for the "ewwww!" factor.

All cities in the prior centuries had a street sweeper department that kept the streets as manure free as possible. It was a daily job with steady employment...until the automobile shoved the horse outside the cities to the countryside where the 4 legged transportation icon would remain until the 1930s....because a horse was easy to refuel with grass and could live into its late 20s and sometimes early 30s. Cars, on the other hand, were perfect for the city life. No debris, ready to go at the turn of a handle vs tacking up and "putting to" (if dricing a carriage), didn't require a groom or someone minding the vehicle when left alone. Plus they didn't require daily care when not being used.

People struggle to give up what they know when it comes time to embrace new technology.

(I have one hay burner left. He's 22 with a 33 year lifespan, and his only job is being a lawn ornament, but judging by his antics yesterday, bucking and running in the snow when it was 17°f with single digit wind chills, I'm pretty sure he's going to outlive me. And yes, I still pick up after him. All his production - that doesn't escape my notice and degrade into the soil in a few days - goes on the gardens.)
 
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mrgold35 said:
Exceptions do not make the rule. Check out this Wikipedia for a list of hybrid vehicles over the years. How many are still around compared to the gas only versions.

en.wikipedia.org

List of hybrid vehicles - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
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lack of maintenance is no reflection on the vehicle,i regularily watch the tear down videos and excessive rpms and lack of oil changes are the the no.1 culprit, my isp has been running ford hybrids for well over 100k with no problem, probably the best place to really find out about hybrids is the make specific sites and please take wikipedia with a grain of salt
 
Readytoride said:
Sorry, but...that photo isn't showing manure. It's showing rocks and rock debris. Ask me how I know (closing on 50 years of owning horses and shoveling their manure daily). Whoever titled this photo as showing a manure laden street did so in (it feels like deliberate) error. I think they were trying for the "ewwww!" factor.

All cities in the prior centuries had a street sweeper department that kept the streets as manure free as possible. It was a daily job with steady employment...until the automobile shoved the horse outside the cities to the countryside where the 4 legged transportation icon would remain until the 1930s....because a horse was easy to refuel with grass and could live into its late 20s and sometimes early 30s.

People struggle to give up what they know when it comes time to embrace new technology.
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Not sure how you get "rock and rock debris" in the middle of a city unless you are doing construction? I only see horses for parades, mounted police, or romantic horse drawn carriages now days within city limits.

The point is the BEV is here to stay and petrol power vehicles are on the way out like the horse & buggy. The change isn't for us; but, our great-great-great grandkids in the year +2100. Very few people today are wanting to turn back the clock to horse & buggy in cities or covered wagons on the Oregon trail type of living. Sure, there will always be a need to old proven tech for certain situations. My father-in-law traded in his horse for a 4 wheeler when he needs to round up his cattle or check the pasture for coyotes. He only uses his horse for fun rides with grandkids or Elk hunting.
 
dang, you sold me on hybrids thanks- one thing i would do different is run amsoil and use oil anlysis one former auto parts salemans did that with a former company Chevy HHR( talkin about cheap and has around 250k trouble free miles on it( maybe much more now)
 
I do see hybrids as a valid and worthwhile stepping stone for those who routinely travel great distances and are afraid to take the BEV plunge. We sold our hybrid when we realized it was sitting for months unused while we drove the 150 mile range EV everywhere. The hybrid (Prius) did come in handy for those 4-5 hour trips out of state, but it was noisy, uncomfortable, lackluster, and tiring to drive. We had loved it before the EV, but...that love turned sour when we realized the hybrid was just taking up space, costing insurance and taxes and tags while rarely being used, and depreciating at the same time.

In retrospect, I wish I'd sold it years before when it was worth more, and simply rented a car when I wanted to do a long trip. I would have saved far more money in the long run renting rather than having a hybrid at my beck and call.
 
mrgold35 said:
Not sure how you get "rock and rock debris" in the middle of a city unless you are doing construction? I only see horses for parades, mounted police, or romantic horse drawn carriages now days within city limits.

The point is the BEV is here to stay and petrol power vehicles are on the way out like the horse & buggy. The change isn't for us; but, our great-great-great grandkids in the year +2100. Very few people today are wanting to turn back the clock to horse & buggy in cities or covered wagons on the Oregon trail type of living. Sure, there will always be a need to old proven tech for certain situations. My father-in-law traded in his horse for a 4 wheeler when he needs to round up his cattle or check the pasture for coyotes. He only uses his horse for fun rides with grandkids or Elk hunting.
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It could have resulted from a wagon filled with rock and dirt breaking down on that road and the dumped results being swept to the side to make way way for traffic. Lots of conjecture as to how that debris got there, but it sure as heck is NOT manure.

We only have long range BEVs now - 300 mile car and 350 mile truck. The sole holdout is the diesel farm tractor and the gas riding mowers. One mower will be replaced with a battery zero turn this year, the other gas mower is fated to be eliminated in favor of a battery mower in about 2 years time. All our other lawn and garden tools are battery, including rototiller and weed wackers. Large farm equipment historically seems to always be the last in the line of any technological advancements, so our diesel farm tractor will probably live on for another decade or so.

I've spent a lot of money in transitioning to electric and adding solar, but I did so, and will continue to do so, with my grandkids in mind.
 
kevinmccune said:
lack of maintenance is no reflection on the vehicle,i regularily watch the tear down videos and excessive rpms and lack of oil changes are the the no.1 culprit, my isp has been running ford hybrids for well over 100k with no problem, probably the best place to really find out about hybrids is the make specific sites and please take wikipedia with a grain of salt
Click to expand...

Exceptions do not make the rule. There are also fail diesel, gas powered, electric, hybrid, and fuel cell vehicles over the years. For every successful Accord/Camry, there is a Pontiac, Mercury, or Saturn in the junk yard. BEVs are the answer; but, that doesn't mean your one Ford model will come out on top decades later.

The wikipedia is just showing at a glance the progression of hybrids vehicles to become better, stronger, faster, increased flexibility, improved range, and cheaper with time. BEVs will hit a critical mass when the market will tip in the BEV way along with supporting infrastructure. That could be decades or even a century away; but, it will happen.

Reminds me when I first purchased my 2016 Radrover ebike. Not a lot of choices on the market, limited battery range, basic features, and no support other than Rad customer service most to the time. Add in the haters of "you are cheating", "why don't you get a motor cycle", and "that isn't a real bike". Now, half the bikes I see around town are ebikes and way more people of all ages, conditioning levels, and sizes are riding. We haven't hit that critical mass with hybrids and BEVs and folks are still in the "the old way is the best way" mentality.

BEVs are not for us, they are for our grand kids. The best we can do and invest into the technology because we have the deep pockets, grow the infrastructure as needed, push innovation, and create a climate of acceptance to make hybrids/BEVs the norm.
 
why wait that long? and btw the saturn cars worked very well for the correct market( yuppies? no the older folks liked them) their stupid marketing sure didnt help them. why would you want a car that there was no room to negoiate the price,i dont argue with the stealerships these days i just walk( if a couple hours stress saved me thousands on a car i was all for it)
 
kevinmccune said:
why wait that long? and btw the saturn cars worked very well for the correct market( yuppies? no the older folks liked them) their stupid marketing sure didnt help them. why would you want a car that there was no room to negoiate the price,i dont argue with the stealerships these days i just walk( if a couple hours stress saved me thousands on a car i was all for it)
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I love to get the best deal possible with price, features, reliability, flexibility, etc... It is just BEVs are not the best deal possible at this time for most of us (including me). We wouldn't have any issues with BEVs if they had a 1000 mile range minimum, took 10 mins or less to charge +80%, your can recharge anywhere with a plug/over-the-air/induction, induction charging option in parking spaces or at every stop light, miles of induction charging lanes powered by wind/solar while driving on the highway, and cost less than gas powered or hybrid vehicles. I can see this being the future for BEVs 30-100 years from now.
 
I used to think PHEVs were the answer to transition until I owned one. Instead of the best of both worlds, it was the worst. ICE maintenence, issues with electric to ICE systems and low EV range/slow charging and not much cheaper than EVs make it a loser in my eyes.

Hybrid is ok but it still requires gas and the cost difference doesn't make up the fuel savings. So unless hybrids cost the same as ICE, a high MPG ICE vehicle is a better value.
 
About range anxiety…

This is from the first time I forgot to plug in before going to bed. I realized I could make it to work but was iffy about making it back home. The guess-o-meter stated I would make it home with 11 miles to spare on my 40 mile trip home. I got the "propulsion reduced" message about five miles from home but I made it. 😬

IMG_0231.jpeg
 
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