This will never happen on a global scale . There's no infrastructure to support it . Pushing EV's on people isn't about climate awareness . It's about controlling people . It amazes me how most people just fall in line . Sad but funny and it's always been this way . Follow the crowd , you'll fall off the cliff and go splatt:
Electric Car thread
- Thread starter WattsUpDude
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Handlebars
Well-Known Member
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- Canada
It's not the propulsion that is the big problem, it's the energy storage part.Sure, the fact that electric propulsion makes for a better car than internal combustion engine in pretty much every regard must have nothing to do with it
Thankfully this is already happening in the motorbike ev world ( rather than motorbike as toys) , with everyone from ktm to honda , samsung and piagio aiming at a standardised swappable battery design.
Wouldn't it be nice if there was a mobile box that could use the same tech . Imagine buying car " skins" like we can with power tools , and going back to the good old days when a SERVICE station had attendants refueling - imagine all those jobs with attendants replacing batteries at the service centre!
small print...imagine having an attendant replace the battery whilst a tesla driver has to wait to charge!!!
Perhaps reflect on how backward a country looks that DOESN'T have this infrastructure ....India are already moving towards using it in their tricycle taxis....
Check out Honda's swappable battery stations for electric motorbikes, hoping to go global
Honda’s swappable battery packs, known as the Honda Mobile Power Pack e: (MPPe:), are soon getting their own Gogoro-style battery...
electrek.co
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procreator
Active Member
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- USA
This is pretty awesome. I can understand how it can work for rickshaws and delivery motorcycles.
I like your idea of having skins with swappable batteries. I love my DeWalt cordless tools. Maybe DeWalt will start making ebikes.
I like your idea of having skins with swappable batteries. I love my DeWalt cordless tools. Maybe DeWalt will start making ebikes.
Mulezen
Well-Known Member
A general piece on EV’s…hopefully readable
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/13/...ytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/13/...ytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
Taylor57
Well-Known Member
Good read. I have mixed feelings after owning an EV for a year now. The 7500 tax credit was great but only getting 160 miles on a full charge was not so great. Yeah, I was driving 80 and had the AC on for part of the trip, but I thought for sure I would do better than 160. Also, it seems like every EV charging station has one problem or another-and I'm in So Cal. Hanging on to my ICE car for now as my EV is a nice grocery getter...
So I am clear to understanding . You guys are saying to go to a vehicle that needs constant changing is progress. When we already have vehicles that automatically charge the battery during operation . Please explain how this is progress? How we supposed to fly ?? LOL Where is the grid technology to support all this ? That's not even being worked on . A battery exchange house ?? Seriously ..
Motorcycles weigh about 1/6th the weight of a small car . Plus a gas bike can go forever on a few gallons of gas.
Plus we need gas and oil to make the EV. Not to mention maintaining them . Then there's the cost of the EV itself . Most can't afford one .
I fail to see how this is progress. When the lifestyle you currently experience is all because of gas/oil and coal .
Please explain
I also don't get how you people don't understand . When they say we have to have a massive reduction in carbon to survive . Duh::: Human Beings emit C02 ??? And there are approximately 8 billion carbon emitters ?????? This is where these Globalists' are heading .
Motorcycles weigh about 1/6th the weight of a small car . Plus a gas bike can go forever on a few gallons of gas.
Plus we need gas and oil to make the EV. Not to mention maintaining them . Then there's the cost of the EV itself . Most can't afford one .
I fail to see how this is progress. When the lifestyle you currently experience is all because of gas/oil and coal .
Please explain
I also don't get how you people don't understand . When they say we have to have a massive reduction in carbon to survive . Duh::: Human Beings emit C02 ??? And there are approximately 8 billion carbon emitters ?????? This is where these Globalists' are heading .
procreator
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I appreciate your sentiments, but I think you're painting with an awfully broad brush. Perhaps you already did, but if you peruse the entire thread you will find there is a whole spectrum of opinions.
My concern is that policy-drivers, be they in the government or media, often pick the "best of" information that supports their positions, and the "worst of" information with which to paint opposing positions. I suppose we are all prone to this fallacy.
It is undeniable that there has been tremendous technological progress in EV space. It is also undeniable that as the use of EVs has expanded, serious issues have been uncovered that may not be solved by technology. The NYT article referenced above highlights some of these issues.
I have no problem with EV . What I have a problem with as I have said before . The supposed urgency to get rid of gas/oil . They are pushing a false narrative to even suggest such a thing is possible . All of our polymers and other plastics used in vehicles are oil based products -batteries need coal . To eliminate carbon emissions to saveeeee the planet . Is simply a lie being pushed to regulate us . Something they can't do off the grid. Seriously who are they trying to kid with this Climate change bull? Every time 1 volcano spews ash sets this C02 nonsense on it's #$#$ . Nord Stream ???
That's my problem. EV are fine / But they should be part of the Energy source . Not all of it .
pmcdonald
Well-Known Member
This thread is what it looks like to live through a transition. There will be the doomsdayers, the contrarians, the polayannas, the pragmatists, the holdouts. And somewhere in the middle of it all the market will continue to respond to the policy and consumer demand of the moment.
EVs represent a minuscule part of our market here in Australia. But the trend is real. Manufacturers can't get enough product to market to meet demand here.
One interesting local development: BYD launched here recently. Their vehicles feature a tray arrangement for the batteries. In theory they could be quickly swapped out at a petrol station by an attendent, similar to a swap and go gas bottle. Watch this space.
EVs represent a minuscule part of our market here in Australia. But the trend is real. Manufacturers can't get enough product to market to meet demand here.
One interesting local development: BYD launched here recently. Their vehicles feature a tray arrangement for the batteries. In theory they could be quickly swapped out at a petrol station by an attendent, similar to a swap and go gas bottle. Watch this space.
Does your federal government incentivise EV purchases?
Mulezen
Well-Known Member
Not so for a complex number of over lapping reasons. check where the corn belt is moving…and how quickly. The latest hurricane in Florida (last week) is another example of what the warming climate is producing…historical droughts and extreme weather etc. Massive accelerating immigration…parts of the world ME…slices of India among others) too hot Now to live in. And the Russians, particularly in their West, who relished the warming are changing their tune.
Climate is no simple thing, and neither is evolution…it takes time for one to get used to another…200 years is the equivalent of jumping off a cliff
BigNerd
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't underestimate the ICE legacies... Ford was able to turn around an EV truck in less time than Tesla and Rivian and the result is exactly what helped many buyers jump in... a EV that looked like the ICE truck people were used to. The Mach-E is also a "success".
Mercedes has an interesting strategy of ground-up EVs and EV from gas converts (like what Hyundai and Kia are doing with the Kona and Niro).
Speaking of the Koreans, the Ioniq 5 and EV6 are great vehicles and their future models look very good.
Now if only the Japanese brands can figure it out.
Mulezen
Well-Known Member
And Rivian is a partner with Mercedes with a shared interest in a Silicon anode Solid State battery developer.
The ICE legacy production is certainly true. supply chain issues hurt Ford Lightning‘s introduction but it has fine reviews and like you said a familiar face.
pmcdonald
Well-Known Member
At the state level we have a $3k rebate for the first 25k EVs sold under $68750. They're also planning a 2.5c/km charge on EVs from 2027. Their goal is 50% EV sales by 2030.
For reference a base model Tesla 3 here is $68375. The cheapest passenger EV on our market is the MG ZS for about $45k. BYD drop in at high $40ks for more range, Leaf $53k-$64k, then everyone else (Hyundai, Kia, Polestar, etc) sits around that Telsa 3 price and up. The average car price last year was apparently $40k, and the average individual income $52k.
Our federal government has announced some tax breaks for EVs in the next financial year which will accelerate uptake, at least for leased and salary sacrificed vehicles.
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Handlebars
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After 30+ years of hockey stick terrors, they still will not say how long or how much of weather data it takes to make climate data. They'll say that 30 years is a "climatic period", but will not elaborate.
It's the biggest graft pit ever imagined.
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Readytoride
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It will happen. It just takes time... an extended amount of time to be sure thanks to the disruptions of a global pandemic. Happened to the first transition from horse to automobile, too. The 1918 pandemic and the global WWI set the new transportation industry on the backburner until the mid 1920s. Give it four more years, and the 1st world roads will be looking vastly different with more charging opportunities than gas stations, and lots and lots of EVs everywhere
I don't think this is going to be a viable idea to actually make it to market. The batteries for cars are too big, too integrated into the structure and complexities of the modern car, and requires too much expensive infrastructure and experienced personnel to be worth the effort. Charging stations can be placed anywhere there is an electric outlet, can be solar if there isn't a grid, can be overnight slow or 20 minutes super quick.
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Readytoride
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- Virginia
And then we have an interesting "add" to the story from Electrik.co who interviewed the woman in the NYT story
Reporter Seth Weintrab wrote:
I was excited to read today’s NYTimes piece on mainstreaming of electric vehicles. The story with two separate author bylines could theoretically convince middle America that it was OK to consider buying an EV, even if there were places like “North Dakota, for example, [where] there are just 19 fast chargers.” But I found myself cringing because of incomplete reporting and a strong desire to set the record straight.
...
Just an excerpt where what was "missing" was uncovered:
....
She told me (and the NYT, though they didn’t report it) the following:
- She started out the journey with only 80% charge (already down to 200 mile range) because of a settings issue.
- She had a bike rack and bike on the back.
- She had a 3×3 foot soft roof rack on the top – multiple backpacks tied down.
- She was driving 65-70mph on the trip and stopped with about a 20% charge in Findlay, Ohio, to look for chargers. At that point, she was SOL because all four level 2 chargers in town were unusable. The closest usable charger was outside of her current range and the car was ultimately towed to a working fast charger in Upper Sandusky, pictured at top.
Why am I calling this out?
I’m not here to shame the NYTimes or its writers on the omissions in their article. I do think the story needs a correction to note that aerodynamics – not weight – is the major factor in highway driving range because I think EV and potential EV drivers need to know this information. I think they chose this story because of the harrowing outcome, but that’s speculation.I’m also not here to fault Ms. Milligan, who obviously is an EV advocate who wasn’t told about the significance of potential range hits when adding bikes and roof rack. A bigger issue, however, is that she trusted the VW ID.4’s internal EV charger finding map, which told her about potential charging backups but not the reliability of each of these stations. There are still a lot of calculations to make when driving EVs on trips that typical drivers just don’t have to consider. I think her tale can and should be a cautionary one.
However, instead of the POV of the story where there is uncertainty on why the EV didn’t get the expected range, we can have some faith in the numbers that are shown. “Range anxiety” is about uncertainty. Now we know why she couldn’t make the trip.
*******
Why oh why is that outdated "advice" to only charge to 80% still being paraded out to the public like an 80 year old at a Junior Miss pageant? If I can offer only one piece of advice to any new (or old) EV owner, it's to charge your car at home (Level 2) to 100% all the time, every time. Even if you plan to store it for a while. It will not hurt the battery, won't kill it or maim it or otherwise destroy it. Batteries today have a charge state buffer built in to hold the battery at an optimum "full charge state". My 4 year old Leaf's buffer is 96%. Even if my dashboard says 100%, the actual charge is 96%.
The ONLY time 80% comes into play is when you are Level 3 fast charging because your car's system starts throttling the high speed to a lower speed in order for the cells to start being balanced. Which means that when you hit 80% the Level 3 high speed charging drops to a much slower speed (sometimes as slow as Level 2 which is home charging speed) which means you'll have to spend more time sitting at that Level 3 quick charge station to get to a 90-100% "fill up". Not worth it to a lot of people road tripping.
Charging to only 80% at home effectively drops your range significantly. It's stupid and pointless.
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It'll be interesting to see if Industry Standards (SAE, EU, ISO) are developed to standardize "slideinable" batteries. Unfortunately, all the "I can make an EV" startups didn't go in a common direction. I can see the big boys that participate in Standards organizations going that direction; not unlike (all but Tesla) plugs.
Perhaps in the OTR truck industry.
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