Ebikemotion x35 speed limiter "fix"

[eBikeWhisperer]

I am more than satisfied, my friend is very satisfied, THANKS

You are very welcome. It would be very kind of you to leave a comment/review on the post on my website. Thank would be most helpful.

Ebikemotion X35 & X35+ Tuning Dongle

Since the inception of mainstream eBikes here in Australia, we have seen many eBike users trying to get the most out of their steed. It came to our attention that each eBike system manufacturer like Bosch, Shimano, Mahle (Ebikemotion x35) etc have and will continue to make important enhancements...

www.sccarbonrepairs.com

All the best,

Toby

 

[Wiliertrestina]

I got my dongle and rode 3 times with it, here my comments :
- It works, up to 29km/h on my Wilier, but
- above 25km/h the power supplied is much less than normal (my feeling is 50%), hence useless on level 1
- obviously the km range is less than before as expected (still around 90-100km)
- Fitting is simple but as the dongle is really long, the cable linked to the rear wheel cannot be put back in place, I had to find a trick to fix it somewhere on the seat stay, which can be an issue. See picture

Sent some questions to the website address, didin't have any response so far.

 

[GregGritton]

I got my dongle and rode 3 times with it, here my comments :
- It works, up to 29km/h on my Wilier, but
- above 25km/h the power supplied is much less than normal (my feeling is 50%), hence useless on level 1

Motors tend to have a maximum speed (known as N0) where the power produced ramps down until it hits zero at that speed. The speed is proportional to voltage and looks something like the attached graph (an example from https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?cont=C20&motor=MG310_STD.) This speed would normally be above the legal cut-off speed. Thus, even if you remove the cut-off, you won't see any assistance above the natural maximum speed and the assistance will be low near it.

 

[Pierrepi]

Motors tend to have a maximum speed (known as N0) where the power produced ramps down until it hits zero at that speed. The speed is proportional to voltage and looks something like the attached graph (an example from https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?cont=C20&motor=MG310_STD.) This speed would normally be above the legal cut-off speed. Thus, even if you remove the cut-off, you won't see any assistance above the natural maximum speed and the assistance will be low near it.

practically then this dongle is of little use. Is the engine not very powerful? Can this engine not exceed 29 kmh?

ps Toby you have to answer our questions more often!

 

[NOVICLIE]

Hello,
first impressions about the unbridled system sold on the site.
The installation is not really a problem, just take the excess cable in the frame and the other side to add a serflix to fix the cable on the frame.
Regarding the system itself I confirm that assistance stops between 29 and 30 km / h but above 25 assistance is very low and I am disappointed, I expected much better. I hope that in the future we can get a more successful system!

 

[Pierrepi]

Hello,
first impressions about the unbridled system sold on the site.
The installation is not really a problem, just take the excess cable in the frame and the other side to add a serflix to fix the cable on the frame.
Regarding the system itself I confirm that assistance stops between 29 and 30 km / h but above 25 assistance is very low and I am disappointed, I expected much better. I hope that in the future we can get a more successful system!

This is a real pity.
We hope my bike Orbea can go better than that.
I expect the dongle to work well.
Although I am still waiting for his arrival on September 5th.
How many days have you passed from the shipment to your arrival?

 

[Pierrepi]

But above 25 assistance is very low and I am disappointed, I expected much better. I hope that in the future we can get a more successful system!

Explain better. What does low assistance mean exactly?
Can you give me an example? Using assistance 2 can you pedal easy? And how much is the battery consumption?

 

[Wiliertrestina]

Explain better. What does low assistance mean exactly?
Can you give me an example? Using assistance 2 can you pedal easy? And how much is the battery consumption?

I guess we both experienced the same thing. As soon as you pass 25, although you ca hear than the motor is still on, the number of watts you get is cut by two. So if you are at level 2 (125W on a Wilier), between 25 and 29 you will get only around 60 watts, meaning that you have to push hard to maintain the speed on hard conditions (head wind, rope...). At level 1 it's useless (no difference with or without the dongle).

 

[Pierrepi]

I guess we both experienced the same thing. As soon as you pass 25, although you ca hear than the motor is still on, the number of watts you get is cut by two. So if you are at level 2 (125W on a Wilier), between 25 and 29 you will get only around 60 watts, meaning that you have to push hard to maintain the speed on hard conditions (head wind, rope...). At level 1 it's useless (no difference with or without the dongle).

This also means that the battery consumption will be high with assistance 2. I honestly thought better.
In practice, for easy pedaling after 25 km / h you need to use assistance 2 or 3 but with an important battery consumption.
At this point I have serious doubts that using the dongle is advantageous, hoping also that the engine will not be damaged.
After how many days did you receive the dongle? Where are you from?

 

[MikeDee]

I guess we both experienced the same thing. As soon as you pass 25, although you ca hear than the motor is still on, the number of watts you get is cut by two. So if you are at level 2 (125W on a Wilier), between 25 and 29 you will get only around 60 watts, meaning that you have to push hard to maintain the speed on hard conditions (head wind, rope...). At level 1 it's useless (no difference with or without the dongle).

How do you know the power is cut by 2? Did Wilier provide the power curves? My Orbea goes to 20 mph before power is cut, and I feel there is still decent assist provided in L1 just before it cuts out.

 

[Pierrepi]

How do you know the power is cut by 2? Did Wilier provide the power curves? My Orbea goes to 20 mph before power is cut, and I feel there is still decent assist provided in L1 just before it cuts out.

Are you sure that with the Orbea dongle it reaches 32 kmh? Are you talking about the speed reached with this change?

 

[youngoldbloke]

How do you know the power is cut by 2? Did Wilier provide the power curves? My Orbea goes to 20 mph before power is cut, and I feel there is still decent assist provided in L1 just before it cuts out.

Mike - am I right in thinking yours a US gain, with a legal 20mph cut-off? (No dongle)

 

[MikeDee]

Mike - am I right in thinking yours a US gain, with a legal 20mph cut-off? (No dongle)

Correct.

 

[Wiliertrestina]

This also means that the battery consumption will be high with assistance 2. I honestly thought better.
In practice, for easy pedaling after 25 km / h you need to use assistance 2 or 3 but with an important battery consumption.
At this point I have serious doubts that using the dongle is advantageous, hoping also that the engine will not be damaged.
After how many days did you receive the dongle? Where are you from?

14 days. I don't think there is any risk of damage.

 

[eBikeWhisperer]

Hello Everyone. Thank you for all your feedback. I have done my best to answer questions via PM.

- Firstly @Wiliertrestina, The excess cable can actually be tucked into the frame as @NOVICLIE has pointed out.
- The system does gradually back off the power above 25pkh. This is to ensure a smooth transition between assisted and non assisted. I have had
- @Pierrepi I have sent through the enquiry with Auspost and await their response. I will reply via email with you on this.

The experience on a few E-Bikes I have ridden where the assistance is powered right up to the cut off point and then drops the whole 250W is unsavoury. This is not only annoying, it is also very bad for the motor as it will continue to engage and disengage continuously.

I see via my communications that There are many perceptions of what this product offers. However the consensus is that it does what we said it does. Some are over the moon, some are less than satisfied. We are looking at how we can improve it. Is it possible to get more out of it? We are trying to find out. The fact is that this is the only product that can unlock the 25kph limit on the Ebikemotion X35 system.

I do appreciate all the feedback and take it into consideration for future development.

Kind Regards,
Toby

 

[Wiliertrestina]

How do you know the power is cut by 2? Did Wilier provide the power curves? My Orbea goes to 20 mph before power is cut, and I feel there is still decent assist provided in L1 just before it cuts out.

Hello, I'm in France, power is cut at 25km/h in Europe. So getting 29 with the dongle is an improvement. I don't know what it would give on the us models, ask ebikewhisperer. I have provided the wilier power curves graph (for Europe) on a previous post, that's how I know how many watts I have on each level. Then I can estimate what's left above 25, but it's only a guess. I think we'd all like to hear about it from the supplier!

 

[Wiliertrestina]

Hello Everyone. Thank you for all your feedback. I have done my best to answer questions via PM.

- Firstly @Wiliertrestina, The excess cable can actually be tucked into the frame as @NOVICLIE has pointed out.
- The system does gradually back off the power above 25pkh. This is to ensure a smooth transition between assisted and non assisted. I have had
- @Pierrepi I have sent through the enquiry with Auspost and await their response. I will reply via email with you on this.

The experience on a few E-Bikes I have ridden where the assistance is powered right up to the cut off point and then drops the whole 250W is unsavoury. This is not only annoying, it is also very bad for the motor as it will continue to engage and disengage continuously.

I see via my communications that There are many perceptions of what this product offers. However the consensus is that it does what we said it does. Some are over the moon, some are less than satisfied. We are looking at how we can improve it. Is it possible to get more out of it? We are trying to find out. The fact is that this is the only product that can unlock the 25kph limit on the Ebikemotion X35 system.

I do appreciate all the feedback and take it into consideration for future development.

Kind Regards,
Toby

I think you didn't read my comment correctly . I did not have any issue with the cable on the battery side. I was pointing out the excess cable on the wheel side (see picture) that cannot be tucked into the hub.
On the power issue, it's probably a good idea to have it decreasing gradually, however passing from X to X/2 at once is not gradual. Are you sure that the dongle does not change the power curves drastically?

 

[eBikeWhisperer]

Hi all,

I'm from Paris France and new on this site. After a bad accident 5 years ago that let me disabled I recently purchased a Wilier cento Hy to be able to follow my friends and have fun. I read most of the posts and I noticed that some are discussing about their tuning on the assist levels. It raised me a question: What are the nominal output at 100% for each level (colour)? So I contacted Mahle and aked them. Surprise, they don't know! After a few messages I've been told that each bike manufacturer set-up the X35 with their own choice of curves.
I'm saying curves because the ouput is not linear (at least for Wilier) and depends on level AND speed. So I contacted Wilier and they provided me this graph that was really useful for me to set-up my assistance.
On the graph (for Europe) you can notice a few things:
- Verticaly you see the % of the power the X35 delivers (when at 100% on the app), horizontaly the speed in Km/h ; I guess it's another graph in the US.
You never get the full 250W as the red level (grey curve) caps to 90% max of power. i.e 225W ; orange gets you 125W max and green (blue curve) only 75W, I guess this is why it's called eco mode!
- You get the max output between 15-20km/h and 23, then it goes down again.
- When you use the app to decrease the % of assistance you change the whole curve of this level by moving it to the bottom of the graph.
Some conclusions for my personal use of the system:
- There's no point of lowering the green level as 75W are not much anyway
- The difference between orange and red curve is big, so I played on the red one.
- Talking about our % with people having a X35 with another bike brand doesn't make much sense as manufacturers probably have different settings meaning that 65% on the orange for a Wilier may give a different output on Orbea...etc.

I don't know if it's possible but as an evolution I'd like to have a fourth assist level (purple?) that one could tune at a certain % of power (maybe caped to X%) with a flat curve between 15 and 25 km/h. On long climbs that would help to manage efforts.

I'm very happy with my Wilier that weight 11,6kg complete with pedals, bottle cages... I could ride 110km with 1100m D+ and came back with 20% battery. I cannot make such distance anymore with my normal bike, so good investment.

Hi @Wiliertrestina I have now noted your findings supplied by Wilier. As your post shows even without the dongle the power drops once past a certain speed. I will look at providing some power data as soon as I can as I don't have it recorded.

Kind Regards,

Toby

 

[Wiliertrestina]

Hi @Wiliertrestina I have now noted your findings supplied by Wilier. As your post shows even without the dongle the power drops once past a certain speed. I will look at providing some power data as soon as I can as I don't have it recorded.

Kind Regards,

Toby

Yes, above 23 it goes down 2,5% by added km speed and without the dongle there is still something left up t 26. I would be very happy to have the exact same decreasing curve up to 29. That would left 85% of the max power of each level. But it's not the case.

 

[r1roman]

In my modest opinion that device is absolutely unnecessary for a gain of 5km / h more on a road bike