E-bikes under fire as fatalities climb in NYC

[Art Deco]

I actually didn't make myself clear, I guess.
My points 1 and 2 came thru, but not 3 my reaction.
1. An AI network controlling all traffic on limited access highways could eliminate multi car collisions and grid lock like an air traffic controller does for planes
2 People really are lousy drivers, especially if driving for long spans of time at high speeds
3 I don't like the fact that some AI could refuse to let me (specifically )cross the county line or refuse to let anyone (in general ) into an overcrowded central city. I will probably give up on the freeways if that happens. I will travel slowly on the (empty and ill maintained) two lane backroads like my grandfather did, not much faster than a horse can gallop.

 

[ActionJackson]

It could work if our society culture (Referring mostly to drivers respect of bikers/pedestrians/motos ) was as it is in Denmark/Holland/Japan/Korea/Singapore and there are many other places like that in the world.

If you’ve ever driven in Japan or Korea you’d never make that hilarious statement

 

[Art Deco]

If you’ve ever driven in Japan or Korea you’d never make that hilarious statement

I didn't drive in the chaos of China traffic, but the tour guide introduced our bus driver as "God", b/c at every turn all the passengers screamed "Oh God!" ... we didn't run over anyone, but had a bike bump into the side of the bus. Maybe 4 mph, the driver didn't even stop...

 

[ActionJackson]

I didn't drive in the chaos of China traffic, but the tour guide introduced our bus driver as "God", b/c at every turn all the passengers screamed "Oh God!" ... we didn't run over anyone, but had a bike bump into the side of the bus. Maybe 4 mph, the driver didn't even stop...

Here in Japan they take liability very seriously, however the strange brew of Japanese traffic laws mixed with a token effort at dedicating bike lanes has resulted in pure chaos on the roadways. The biggest urban issue is really “gig” food delivery drivers, but they’re starting to learn no one has sympathy for idiots. Recently a family of an Uber Eats rider turned fatality was sued by a taxi company after he blew through a red light and bounced off of a taxi. I stay clear of the roads these days - sidewalks a bit but mostly dedicated paths and trails mixed with pedestrians.

 

[Ebiker01]

If you’ve ever driven in Japan or Korea you’d never make that hilarious statement

Yea, you cought it . I thought that their culture would reflect into a civilized road biking experience, but still i highly doubt that they have insane drivers that would actually do something of the nature of what we've read in the prior pages of this post.

Also in rural areas and most smaller cities in Japan no need to lock the bikes, that i know from several people to be a true fact.

As far as EU countries, that's from direct experiences.

 

[Akrotiri]

Just reading the article: so the NY law saying 25mph is the maximum speed for an e-bike?
From a European point of view that's crazy fast, that's moped speed and here - in cities - they are directed to the car lane.
An e-bike is a bike with electric help to get you toward normal bike speed (max. in E.U. 15-16mph/25kmh).
One of the popular bikes (vanMoof) now getting into trouble it is possible going to 20mph, in "us settings" [software], and the fact the boost/throttle is also not permitted.
[goes against the definition of helping: it's taking over]. And they pushing the update to the bikes.
But what I am reading in the comments here is that people going faster than law permits? How? [they (re)build their own bikes, or it's not illegal to sell this kind of bikes?]
Problem with the speed of bikes, it's harder to enforce: no licence plate, and harder to follow. That's why enforcing should also be done at the moment of buying.
Maybe I'm getting old, don't understand the need for speed (on public roads) but I'm glad that there is not so much difference in speed on bike-infra here [different/unexpected speed->accident]

The max for e-bikes in EU is 45kph.

 

[tomdutchie]

The max for e-bikes in EU is 45kph.

Only if you call a bike with extra restrictions still a bike (and not the more regularly used '[speed] pedelec'): helmet, 16 years, licence, insurance, mirror and in many places having to drive at a moped- or car-lane. {and still, often the speed limit is then not 45; but lower}:
Here (NL) the pedelecs are no problem on the bike-roads because [in crowded places] they are surely having to ride between the cars, and in less congested paths they have a speed limit of 30, so they are just a bit faster than (e)bikes and approx. the e-bike limitations of us. {20mph}: only when driving between cars their speed limit is 45kmh [28mph] (or the limit of cars, if that is lower)

 

[Art Deco]

Only if you call a bike with extra restrictions still a bike (and not the more regularly used '[speed] pedelec'): helmet, 16 years, licence, insurance, mirror and in many places having to drive at a moped- or car-lane. {and still, often the speed limit is then not 45; but lower}:
Here (NL) the pedelecs are no problem on the bike-roads because [in crowded places] they are surely having to ride between the cars, and in less congested paths they have a speed limit of 30, so they are just a bit faster than (e)bikes and approx. the e-bike limitations of us. {20mph}: only when driving between cars their speed limit is 45kmh [28mph] (or the limit of cars, if that is lower)

Appears that ebikes,scooters, ICE motorcycles and pedestrians all share space in the Netherlands...

 

[SRTtoZ]

People are hit and killed every single day in NYC (insert ANY CITY) by cars and they don't ban cars do they? So stupid. I swear this city and state is run by idiots. I'm still annoyed that NY was like the last state to legalize MMA. Corrupt to the CORE.

 

[TNC]

People are hit and killed every single day in NYC (insert ANY CITY) by cars and they don't ban cars do they? So stupid. I swear this city and state is run by idiots. I'm still annoyed that NY was like the last state to legalize MMA. Corrupt to the CORE.

LOL!...I don't know...watching the news from NYC as far as crime and mayhem goes, maybe getting hurt or killed on an ebike, pedal-only bike, or other conveyance may be low on the list of causes of death and injury.

 

[Akrotiri]

Only if you call a bike with extra restrictions still a bike (and not the more regularly used '[speed] pedelec'): helmet, 16 years, licence, insurance, mirror and in many places having to drive at a moped- or car-lane. {and still, often the speed limit is then not 45; but lower}:
Here (NL) the pedelecs are no problem on the bike-roads because [in crowded places] they are surely having to ride between the cars, and in less congested paths they have a speed limit of 30, so they are just a bit faster than (e)bikes and approx. the e-bike limitations of us. {20mph}: only when driving between cars their speed limit is 45kmh [28mph] (or the limit of cars, if that is lower)

I’m sorry but I wasn’t talking about semantics. I was direct and specific. The max speed for e-bikes in the EU is 45kph. End of story.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I thought the max speed for e-bikes in EU was 25 km/h, and it was 45 km/h for S-Pedelecs (mopeds). 25 km/h e-bike is just a bike. S-Pedelec is a moped. (The only EU country that allows S-Pedelec on bike paths is Denmark).

 

[tomdutchie]

I thought the max speed for e-bikes in EU was 25 km/h, and it was 45 km/h for S-Pedelecs (mopeds). 25 km/h e-bike is just a bike. S-Pedelec is a moped. (The only EU country that allows S-Pedelec on bike paths is Denmark).

Yeah, according to my knowledge still is 250W/25kmh/no trottle. Germany starting to enforce this stricter in smart bikes a couple of months ago (having to delete the 'us setting [20mph]' in the software: vanMoof/Cowboy etc.)
The s-pedelecs here (NL) sometimes also allowed on the paths (in the car-free zones in centers and at bike-highways for example) but then having the limit of 30kmh, but normally they have to ride between cars @45kmh

 

[rawlus]

i really love the bike culture in NL (i travel there quite a lot for biz) and i’m actually fine with their resistance to helmets… it helps of course that they learn rules of the road at a very young age. all my friends kids are so much more independent and confident on bikes than most of the kids i see these days here. i kind of hate being a pedestrian in NL tho. i’m used to the US where the classes are generally auto/truck/motorcycle > pedestrians > bicyclists. i’m used to bicyclists being the lowest class citizens in the eyes of society, so it’s super duper unsettling when it’s pedestrians who are the scum who are always in the way and when i’m one of those pedestrians. i’d only feel confident bicycling in NL outside of city centers. i’m not confident in that riding as a pack, turning like a flock of birds thing

seriously tho, love NL, nice vibe, nice peeps…

 

[tomdutchie]

i really love the bike culture in NL (i travel there quite a lot for biz) and i’m actually fine with their resistance to helmets… it helps of course that they learn rules of the road at a very young age. all my friends kids are so much more independent and confident on bikes than most of the kids i see these days here. i kind of hate being a pedestrian in NL tho. i’m used to the US where the classes are generally auto/truck/motorcycle > pedestrians > bicyclists. i’m used to bicyclists being the lowest class citizens in the eyes of society, so it’s super duper unsettling when it’s pedestrians who are the scum who are always in the way and when i’m one of those pedestrians. i’d only feel confident bicycling in NL outside of city centers. i’m not confident in that riding as a pack, turning like a flock of birds thing

seriously tho, love NL, nice vibe, nice peeps…

Funny you think pedestrians are considered the scum, I think they are not: but we have our own place on the road. For sure (in "bigger cities") you, as a pedestrian, need to respect that, if you don't want to learn the dutch four-letter words
Understand the hesitation of riding in cities, the flows are sometimes overwhelmingly big and all are on the way to somewhere else, not a picnic ride, so going slow or being not 'in the flow' could also learn you some sneers.
Learned from "not just bikes" channel on youtube that the layout/city planning is so much different, that switching to more bike-friendly USA would be hard: the layout of suburbs, the non-existence of mixed-use making that you need to travel for almost everything far. Here schools/shops are probably closer, which makes biking more/most practical.
So yeah, children [want to] learn how to get to school on their bike, so mom/dad is not embarrassing them at school square . Also, lessons at school on traffic signs, right of way and basic safety (and later practical lessons) will help their confidence on the road, and somewhere in that process, they take helmets off..
What is also helping to put bicycles above anything with a motor, is that the rule of proving who is wrong in accidents laying with the stronger one: a car needs to prove that (s)he was totally in the right in an accident, that the rider was irresponsible on the bike and that the driver in no way could prevent. If (s)he can not, the bike is considered victim, car as the one causing the accident.

 

[godotnut]

Asher, your insulting and illogical personal attacks on Catalyzt should be investigated by a mod for this forum. The way you completely twisted his harmless and tactfully put comments and then piled logical fallacy on top of logical fallacy to defend your distortions marks you as someone not interested in a real dialogue. You should reflect on your behavior apologize to him.

​

You wrote:

"I don't mean to be insensitive to pedestrians who are injured by bikes, but in a NYC, there has always been a *somewhat* reduced expectation for safety.

Not a total disregard for human life, not a post-apocalyptic Lord-Of-The-Flies hellscape, but a modestly increased chance of accidents of all kinds."

In response to the report of traffic deaths. Instead of considering how traffic deaths could be cut, you are saying people should slightly expect to die or get injured when visiting NYC, because that's what NYC is (which a) it isn't, according to the traffic death stats and b) the city is what people and officials make of it). It's like if someone talks about deaths in the workplace, and instead of considering how to make the workplace safer, you say to expect it to be dangerous. That is a backhanded way of pinning responsibility on victims ('you should have expected this') instead of the people with the power to make changes.

Your pantomiming about state versus city statistics isn't credible either; NY is tied for #50 in traffic deaths per capita and it's not a coincidence (pic), as Bloomberg CityLab recognizes.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

 

[mschwett]

LOL!...I don't know...watching the news from NYC as far as crime and mayhem goes, maybe getting hurt or killed on an ebike, pedal-only bike, or other conveyance may be low on the list of causes of death and injury.

that’s the problem with the news - or at least whatever you’re watching.

here’s the 50 cities in the US with the highest violent crime rates. you’ll note that new york is not even on the list.

The most dangerous cities in America, ranked

The violent crime rate in the U.S. declined 0.2 percent from 2016 to 2017, the first decline since 2014

www.cbsnews.com

wierdly nobody seems to like to talk about / stereotype the crime “problems” of houston, wichita, anchorage, nashville… i wonder why.

 

[AleksR]

As the heading mentions, throttle-operated E-bikes and reckless E-bike riders will ruin it for everyone else. This news article popped up on my news feed.

E-bikes under fire as accidents, fatalities climb in NYC

As stage and screen actress Lisa Banes clings to life, a growing chorus of New Yorkers is clamoring for a ban on e-bikes and scooters in bike lanes and public spaces. The clarion call comes as e-bi…

nypost.com

Without proper riding infrastructure within the cities, both the rider and the general public are always at risk.
As more and more cases pile up, the hammer will drop and this will affect the responsible riders in a negative way.

The acoustic guys here in San Francisco go faster than vast majority of ebikers. This story is a total nonsense. 20 to 28 mph is not that much of a difference and there are many factors that are involved in accidents. I think that what is wrong are not ebikers but knee jerk reactions from uneducated in power.

 

[TNC]

that’s the problem with the news - or at least whatever you’re watching.

here’s the 50 cities in the US with the highest violent crime rates. you’ll note that new york is not even on the list.

The most dangerous cities in America, ranked

The violent crime rate in the U.S. declined 0.2 percent from 2016 to 2017, the first decline since 2014

www.cbsnews.com

wierdly nobody seems to like to talk about / stereotype the crime “problems” of houston, wichita, anchorage, nashville… i wonder why.

Well, per capita Houston may be ahead of NYC, but 447 homicides at a 41% increase for 2020 is nothing for NYC to brag about. Houston had 400 homicides at a 42% increase. Still sounds like you're more likely to be murdered that killed by an ebike by a very large margin.

 

[mschwett]

Well, per capita Houston may be ahead of NYC, but 447 homicides at a 41% increase for 2020 is nothing for NYC to brag about. Houston had 400 homicides at a 42% increase. Still sounds like you're more likely to be murdered that killed by an ebike by a very large margin.

almost four times the population. not just ahead, but not even in the same ballpark.

a resident of houston is more likely to DIE in a traffic accident in houston than a new yorker is to be murdered in new york city...

on the relative danger of eBikes, we are agreed.