I posted this in another thread that I started but I wanted more people to view it and see if anyone else has had similar experiences.. I am in the market for an e-bike and want full suspension mid drive, trail or mtn bike tires but not fatties.. It's important to me to have local support but there are no dealers in my town. An hour away there is a Giant dealer so I called and asked if they carried Giant's e-bike line.. He said they did and told me the models they had on the floor. I asked if he had the Stance E or if they could get one as that's the model I'm interested in. There was a pause and then in an almost threatening tone of voice he said "we don't carry that model and we WON'T carry that model, we don't want e-mtn bikes on, or tearing up our trails"... I thanked him and he hung up on me before I had a chance to end the call.. They just lost two potential sales as my wife will need a bike as well. Since I started my e-bike quest, I have wondered if there was prejudice against e-bikes on our trail network. ( I could actually ride trails all the way to this dealership) now I know. I wonder what this shops attitude will be a few years from now when e-bikes become the norm instead of the exception
e-bike hatred.. I've found it
- Thread starter DDBB
- Start date
chriskmee
Active Member
Off-road ebikes are definantly hated on more than road based ebikes. A lot of trails have banned motorized vehicles on them, and that includes ebikes. It makes sense to ban motorized vehicles on a mountain bike trail, you don't want to be on a mountain bike sharing the trail with something like a dirt bike, dirt bikes are just so much faster that they can be dangerous to mountain bikers on trails.
Now when we look at ebikes you run into similar issues, although in cases like the Stance E, to a much lesser degree. The real problem comes when you have off road only ebikes which are essentially a electric dirt bike with pedals, like the stealth bomber. If you haven't seen it, here is court's video showing how fast this stealth bomber "e-bike" is.
Now when we look at ebikes you run into similar issues, although in cases like the Stance E, to a much lesser degree. The real problem comes when you have off road only ebikes which are essentially a electric dirt bike with pedals, like the stealth bomber. If you haven't seen it, here is court's video showing how fast this stealth bomber "e-bike" is.
I don't have any interest in anything like the stealth bomber and the Stance E would be used on our local snowmobile trails which are MUP's in summer. Some of the trails are very hilly and most are never used by anyone so I don't see an issue but the town where I was told they wouldn't sell me one is quite a bit larger. The population of my town is less than 5,000, the town where I was refused is at least 50,000 and the MUP's there are quite busy all summer
chriskmee
Active Member
I think part of the problem is that as far as off-road bikes are concerned, there isn't a legal distinction between something like the Stance E and the stealth bomber, both are motorized vehicles. I think there would be less of an issue if only street legal e-bikes were allowed, but when something like the stealth bomber qualifies as an e-MTB , you might as well allow all motorized vehicles on the trail.
Sure, there will be hate even for street legal eMTB like the Stance E, just like how there is for road oriented eBikes, and with time hopefully that will change. As long as things like the stealth bomber are considered an e-MTB though, I think there is a legitimately good reason to include ebikes with the motorized vehicle ban on trails.
Sure, there will be hate even for street legal eMTB like the Stance E, just like how there is for road oriented eBikes, and with time hopefully that will change. As long as things like the stealth bomber are considered an e-MTB though, I think there is a legitimately good reason to include ebikes with the motorized vehicle ban on trails.
Mr. Coffee
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- A Demented Corner of the North Cascades
The really is that mountain bikers are already kind of the red-headed stepchild of trail users and get very little respect or thought from land managers compared to other trail users. E-mtbs have only made this problem worse.
I have been peripherally involved with a few negotiations with land management agencies over the years to open certain trails to mountain bike use. One of the objections that has surfaced in the last few years is that it would be difficult to enforce a ban on e-bikes and allow mountain bikes (if you read some of the threads on this site you will hear that same argument made by e-mtb riders who want to ride on trails that allow mountain bikes). I can't imagine that I am the only one who has heard that argument or a variant of it. So if you are a mountain biker it is reasonable to perceive e-bikes as just another thing reinforcing your third-class status as a trail user.
I have been peripherally involved with a few negotiations with land management agencies over the years to open certain trails to mountain bike use. One of the objections that has surfaced in the last few years is that it would be difficult to enforce a ban on e-bikes and allow mountain bikes (if you read some of the threads on this site you will hear that same argument made by e-mtb riders who want to ride on trails that allow mountain bikes). I can't imagine that I am the only one who has heard that argument or a variant of it. So if you are a mountain biker it is reasonable to perceive e-bikes as just another thing reinforcing your third-class status as a trail user.
Stromer2work
Active Member
Here's one reason LM's are concerned. I read this elsewhere. Let's say there's a local loop that's 10 miles around, and you're in shape and can do it 2x. How many times would you do it for the same workout on an eMTB? 4X?
Don't get me wrong, I support eMTB access to trails with restrictions. For now, I say they don't belong on single track with naturally aspirated folks unless they're run in a way that the power is regulated to be just like a regular bike. I have lots of trails near me that I'd love to ride my bike to, but they're as much as 15 miles one way away. Couple that 15 miles times two plus a couple laps and that's too much riding for me. I'd love to ride to the trail under power, put it in "one" or low, and just ride in a way that I was not passing everyone.
. Double track? Fire Roads? Sure ! Now, sure I'm a hypocrite. I am involved in local trail maintenance. If offered the opportunity (even if not technically allowable), I would take an eMTB on the trail to help me ferry supplies and tools vs walking in and walking out. However, the trail work is generally indicated with signs and cones and I would not be "riding" the bike recreational, I'd be using it as a tool to maintain the trail for myself and other riders.
We are not hardcore mountain bikers but some of the trails around here dictate that type of bike. Most of the snowmobile trails are wide and relatively flat but some have hills and bumps where an e-mtn bike would make more sense than a townie type bike. I decided to go all in on a nice e-mtb and now find they are generally hated on so it's back to square one.
" Dear giant us, as an elderly and physically restricted potential customer I was dissapointed to recieve this level of discrimination from one of your dealers , I am honestly surprised your dealer is not aware that a giant stance e , when ridden by me , will cause far less trail damage than a regular bike ridden by the average athlete. Naturally I am concerned that I may be unable to obtain after sales service in my region, so I will buy other brands"
Haters are everywhere, in everything I'm afraid.. We have a large cruiser boat and get sneered at by the sailboat crowd. (even when they fire up their diesel motor when there's no wind). I get sneered at on my japanese sportbike by the harley crowd, we have clean and quiet 4 stroke touring snowmobiles and get thumbs down from the rocket 2 stroke sled crowd, ad nauseum
ebikemom
Well-Known Member
UNbelievable. Their loss, and I'm so sorry that you don't have this store as a local resource.
Stromer2work
Active Member
True statement about the haters. I'm all for one less car on the road, and if that means riding an eMTB to the trail instead of putting them in the back of a 4x4, well that's what I'm all about. There I go on hating on cager-ragers haha , I experience them daily on my commute.
ebikemom
Well-Known Member
Awesome idea to write letters, both to the store and, separately, to the dealer. It would be worthwhile to get the name of the store owner and write to him/her personally about your experience.
indianajo
Well-Known Member
My first "1000 W" power wheel will dig holes in the dirt. My mountain bike will not, even in granny gear. Ruts in dirt turn into gullies as water runs through them downhill. Gullies mess up everybody's experience. I could ride the power wheel equipped MTB off road without spinning the tires, but Americans in general are not good at restraining themselves and thinking of other's need or what happens tomorrow either.
rich c
Well-Known Member
Have you hung around with any traditional mtb riders? They are FAR from few in hater numbers. Post on one of their forums and sit back and watch!
John from Connecticut
Well-Known Member
...I'm guessing the new Juiced Hyperfat 1100W E Fat Tire is going to provide the Trail mtb 'Haters' with all the more reason to hate eBikes. In this case can we blame them ? From the Juiced web site...
In the very big picture of eBiking, the Hyperfat 1100W Fat Tire eBike if ridden on private roads is fine and would be a lot of fun. I'm all for that !
The problem is we all know the fun won't stop there. With the power of this bike it will most certainly end up being ridden in places where it shouldn't and this really concerns me.
And then there's the 'Hyper' Scrambler 1100W. From the website ....
"'HYPER' SCRAMBLER 1100W
Our HYPER is next level. 1100 Watts of power and 19Ah of power get you going over 34 Mph! Take it out on your next trail riding adventure."
The Hyper Scrambler 1100W looks like a ton of fun. I like it, but again I think in time, traditional eBikers may pay a price for products
that have 'Hyper' : ) in their name.
- Pedal Assist speed 40 mph
- Throttle only speed 35 mph
- Due to the high power motor and high speeds, this bike is designed for non-public roads only.
In the very big picture of eBiking, the Hyperfat 1100W Fat Tire eBike if ridden on private roads is fine and would be a lot of fun. I'm all for that !
The problem is we all know the fun won't stop there. With the power of this bike it will most certainly end up being ridden in places where it shouldn't and this really concerns me.
And then there's the 'Hyper' Scrambler 1100W. From the website ....
"'HYPER' SCRAMBLER 1100W
Our HYPER is next level. 1100 Watts of power and 19Ah of power get you going over 34 Mph! Take it out on your next trail riding adventure."
The Hyper Scrambler 1100W looks like a ton of fun. I like it, but again I think in time, traditional eBikers may pay a price for products
that have 'Hyper' : ) in their name.
Stromer2work
Active Member
Nope !
I have no love for ebikes with a throttle, Especially eMTB. At that point, they are mopeds, I agree with the haters. All my bikes are pedal assist. There is a walk mode 4mph, which I've used before. This is just my personal opinion. I'm not all mad and angry like the haters though. YYMV.
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