e-bike hatred.. I've found it

ItsJim said:
I have been riding mountain bikes for 25+ years. Im 45 now and have some back problems. One of the things my DR told me is that my trail riding days were probably over. So I started looking into e-bikes. E-bikes are the ONLY way some of us will be able to continue our love of riding. Hate all they want but Like everything else in life... You Just have to ignore it and be happy..
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An alternative to the "don't worry, be happy" approach, which I did for the past 2+ years, would be to seek out and "demo" your local land managers so they can see firsthand that pedelec eMTBs have no more discernable impact on their trails than "regular" MTBs.

I took a couple of MA state officials on their first pedal-assisted trail rides on some (ordinarily) hardpacked singletrack just last week. One of them, an Environmental Affairs guy, was specifically looking to see the bikes' effect on trails.

A thinner-tired, unassisted 23 lb gravel bike was zipping around the semi-moist trail at least a few MPH faster than us on our ~50 lb pedelecs. As we stopped to let it pass, it dispersed a visible - albeit "analog" - rooster tail, and left behind much deeper gouges in the soil than any of us did!

Do MTBers throw hissyfits when they see gravel bikes on "their" trails?
 
TForan said:
I agree on not liking throttles on Ebikes. I removed mine and never miss it. If you want a electric scooter, buy that.
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Actually my throttle allows me to ride and accelerate slower than the PAS. Minimum speed in PAS is 11, and it accelerates there at about 700 W. Pretty hard takeoff. When I'm off road like on my grass driveway, it is throttle at 3 mph or push the bike.
Scooters don't support you above the hood of a car. My retarded neighbor that rides bikes has been hit from behind twice and spent one night for observation in the hospital. His friend had the same experience. Bouncing off a hood or windshield is nothing like being hit by the bumper or going under the car. The downside, nobody buys cars anymore,they buy the tallest pickup or SUV they can afford.
 
LimboJim said:
Do MTBers throw hissyfits when they see gravel bikes on "their" trails?
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Purely anecdotal, but on my usual rail trail route there are mostly rec riding mtb'ers, a few hardcore guys, and a small smattering of skinny tired spandex clad cyclists, and I will be damned if the skinny tired guys aren't the most unpleasant of all of the groups. Most do not even acknowledge my wave or 'Good morning' directed towards them. I've gotten to the point where if I see skinny tires, I just put my head down and power on.

I just do not get it. We are all biking on a shared trail, and I don't discriminate or single out someone. If you are riding on the trail with me, I show your courtesy and respect, but after a year of riding, it's almost a given that a certain group will just not be happy that I am on their trails.
 
DDBB said:
The solution to fitting in w/ the skinny tire crowd is to dress in lycra. :)
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Hah !! Already done that !! I have two tight fitting zipper down jerseys that I wear from time to time, and it always confuses them. At a distance I look like one of them. That is until they spot the thick tire and boost axles ;)

I've learned they don't like being passed by me either, so I let them pass me and then match their pace. Nothing frustrates a Chamois @ss like a mtn biker tailing him at speed. I watch my speedo creeping up from 18 to 19 to 20 til they run out of top end. In the interests of keeping it civil with them, since I believe in sharing the trail, I very rarely pass them at any point.
 
For now, the wife and I ride dino bikes, they are hybrids with suspension forks and seats w/ rigid tails.. On the serious bike paths where we sometimes take them, the skinny tire lycra crowd rarely waves or acknowledges us (or anyone else) we wave at everyone.. I guess we won't be in any worse shape with e-bikes than we are now in that regard.
 
I have been riding local trails around my neighborhood on my new Stealth B-52. Low power mode and pedaling my legs off. I have a few thousand miles locally on my old Fat Chance on the same trails. If you ride to enjoy the workout and not like your in a motocross event it doesn't matter which type of bike you are riding. Just don't tear up the trails. Sees pretty simple. I have yet to "run into" the haters so far but from what I'm reading in this thread I see it could be around the next corner on the trail.
 
I think attitudes are fast changing. A few years ago, LBS around me rarely carried ebikes. Now, they all do - even tiny shops are selling no-name Chinese emtbs that are affordable for those without deep pockets. As such, it's not just the 40+ crowd riding expensive emtbs.

Helps that lots of professional riders now ride/train on emtbs. Also helps that batteries are better integrated and getting much harder to discern if a bike is an ebike or not.

I live next to a lot of trails - have yet to have any negative reactions - quite the contrary - people are interested in ebikes and want to learn more (if they even notice I'm on an emtb at all - about only ones who do are the ones I pass going uphill).
 
We were riding our new ebikes in our neighborhood yesterday and a neighbor stopped us and asked if we bought new bikes, (they are used to seeing us riding our matching regular bikes).. I told her yes, they are new.. She pointed to the battery on my Haibike and asked if it was a glovebox.. I told her it was the battery and that both bikes have electric assist.. Her eyes got big and she said "you lazy bums"... She has a regular bike that she doesn't ride much because she's out of shape and in her 70's.. I saw this a great opportunity to tell her how she could enjoy riding again but she wasn't receptive to the idea. Oh well, she can sit on the couch and fade away, we're riding!
 
BassnBlue said:
I have been riding local trails around my neighborhood on my new Stealth B-52. Low power mode and pedaling my legs off. I have a few thousand miles locally on my old Fat Chance on the same trails. If you ride to enjoy the workout and not like your in a motocross event it doesn't matter which type of bike you are riding. Just don't tear up the trails. Sees pretty simple. I have yet to "run into" the haters so far but from what I'm reading in this thread I see it could be around the next corner on the trail.
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I want to "like" your post, I really do. I wish everyone would ride bikes on trails so responsibly, whether motorized, assisted, or not, especially on mixed-use trails!

Regardless of speed, however, I hope you're only riding that thing on ATV/moto-friendly trails!
Otherwise you could be jeopardizing bicycle access completely.

50 mph capable trail bikes likes like the B-52 are a big reason why my local mountain bike ass'n bans my pedal assist eMTBs from all "non-motorized" trails that it builds, sponsors and/or maintains.

Using "stealth" and "speed" arguments like the following, they have also managed to get all ebikes disallowed from most trails in several New England state parks, where pedelec eMTBs are currently relegated to "Off Highway Vehicle" (ATVs, motocross bikes etc.) status:
​
Creating a new category for certain types of e-MTBs would create a management nightmare. ​
Currently it is very difficult to distinguish an e-MTB from a regular mountain bike from a distance, ​
and it is even more unlikely that land managers would be able to distinguish a Type I e-MTB from ​
its more powerful (throttled) brethren, some of which can attain speeds up to 50 MPH or more. ​

The underlying management of trail recreation is based upon differentiating motorized and non-motorized forms of recreation. ​
Some are proposing to create a third category of trail use to allow e-bikes on some but not all non-motorized trail systems. This ​
is a bad idea for a few reasons. First, it will be unwieldy and very difficult to manage in practice, especially since the motorized ​
bikes look quite similar to regular bikes. Second, some e-bikes are being marketed as “stealth”, meaning no one can tell that ​
they are e-bikes so that they can be ridden anywhere, legal or not. Third, this still ignores the speed differential, safety and ​
user-conflict this will cause in existing shared-use trail systems. -NEMBA GUIDANCE TO LAND MANAGERS REGARDING THE ELECTRIC, POWER-ASSIST BIKES ON TRAILS​

Since 2013, NEMBA has created several anti-eMTB posts, letters, position papers, and guidelines, each time referencing ebikes like the B-52 that can be ridden 50+ as examples why I can't ride my favorite MTB trails legally with my low-power pedal assist bicycles.

They don't care whether you ride 50 mph, just that you might...
 
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From the conversations I've had with hardcore mountain bikers over the years, they are against ALL motorized bikes on trails, electrically powered or otherwise. It's easier to put the hate on a single "motorized" category than break it down into several.
 
BassnBlue said:
I have been riding local trails around my neighborhood on my new Stealth B-52. Low power mode and pedaling my legs off. I have a few thousand miles locally on my old Fat Chance on the same trails. If you ride to enjoy the workout and not like your in a motocross event it doesn't matter which type of bike you are riding. Just don't tear up the trails. Sees pretty simple. I have yet to "run into" the haters so far but from what I'm reading in this thread I see it could be around the next corner on the trail.
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I hope you're using your motorcycle on trails that are legal for motorcycles. Also, with two posts, you came here just to tell us you're riding your 6,000W motocross vehicle on your local trails
 
I am not a MTB'r as at my age it is not possible, if I could I would though. But even on the streets where I ride I just love the looks I get when on hills. My bike climbs like crazy so I am sitting down pedaling easy and going past the hill walkers like they are standing still......LOL lot of fun!
The cage drivers give me looks as well, my Aurora doesn't really look at quick glance like a e bike and you can see in their face when they go by you the amazement at the shape that old guy is in riding that hill!!! I'm not gonna tell.....to much fun.
 
BassnBlue said:
I have been riding local trails around my neighborhood on my new Stealth B-52. Low power mode and pedaling my legs off. I have a few thousand miles locally on my old Fat Chance on the same trails. If you ride to enjoy the workout and not like your in a motocross event it doesn't matter which type of bike you are riding. Just don't tear up the trails. Sees pretty simple. I have yet to "run into" the haters so far but from what I'm reading in this thread I see it could be around the next corner on the trail.
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It's sad that your b52 attracts hatred even when your post reflects an arguably reasonable attitude, but hopefully you can understand the herd mentality - let the wolves eat the zebras so the horses can survive .

Emtb's are just starting to gain acceptance, but that grey zone between emtb and emotorbike isn't helping pr. Imagine how unpopular stealth are in their home country ( australia) - they tried getting tax exemptions on parts ( quite reasonably) but then our pen pushers realised bikes were not getting taxed and decided to tax ALL bikes. I wouldn't want to ride a stealth locally!!! https://www.bicyclenetwork.com.au/newsroom/2018/03/01/ebike-price-shock/
 
I have been riding my fat bike on the local trails for a couple years now. When I meet up with another trail user I'm always ready to talk if they want to. My fattie has a mid drive motor and it's quite obvious, So far havn't met any haters. A few kinda look at me funny but once we talk that changes. I also have an electric assist tadpole trike and that one is funny, other riders and occasionally car drivers will ask if I'm disabled. After about the 50th inquiry I now say not really but i did have polio when I was very young and this allows me to get out there. That and another line I often use when first talking to other riders which is Yes it's e assist and I AM a cheater usually stops em in their tracks. The response I usually get to that is well it's good youre out riding. Moral here is do what you can and enjoy the ride
 
I ride roads only so the speed of my bike is irrevalent. You don't hate bikes, you hate the ingrained culture that dictates that their way is right and you have no right to change things.

Without discussing religion or politics, you can see the similatities.

Do Your Thing, respectfully.
 
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Grant Petersen, owner of Rivendell Bicycle Works, does not think ebikes should be classified as bicycles. He designs beautiful handbuilt lugged steel transport bicycles, my personal favorite of their frames is the Cheviot, but in a recent blog post he writes "Expressing a disopinion about eBikes inevitably gets misconstrued as being against older and physically challenged people's mobility and independence and right to the same fun others have. That's not our evil plan. We have no evil plan! It's not whether they're good or bad...It's whether they're a bicycle...of all the levers and wheels in it, the ones that MAKE it a bicycle are the ones that motors replace. You can still pedal, but you don't have to. There's no direct-connection between effort and movement, because the motor takes over. Motors take over these fantastic cooperative movements. They don't "enhance" them or "supplement" them any more than somebody dipping a spoon into your bowl of ice cream is "helping" you eat it...The deal here is that they have a motor so they're not bicycles, they’re motor-cycles, or at least mo-peds. Calling them bicycles gives them most or all of the privileges of a bicycle."

Grant argues he is not debating the merits of the value of motor pedal assist for climbing hills but rather he thinks the dividing line between human and motor powered cycling is one that in his opinion ought to maintain real world legal and practical prohibitions on where to ride an ebike. Contributors to the EBR forums will disagree with Grant's argument against giving us ebike riders "most or all of the privileges of a bicycle".
 
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My question would be if he's ever ridden one. With a statement like "there's no direct connection between effort and movement because the motor takes over" I think not. My Yamaha drive feels very connected and natural. The more effort I give, the more effort the motor gives
 
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