Differences between ebike chain and regular bike chain...

[mikeschn]

So I built up a Black Cypress with a TSDZ2, 48V 750Watt motor.

I suspect the weakest link is the chain. Ha! So I ordered an 8 speed KMC brand ebike chain and some missing links, to have handy for when the original non-ebike chain breaks.

So the question I have is, what makes an ebike chain an ebike chain? The thickness of the links? Something else?

Here's the chain I ordered! It's replacing a KMC Z8.3

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00K5T1RDU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[JES2020]

The overall strength of the ebike chain is supplemented.
One thing, when they say ebike chain, it is more accurate to call them mid drive chains, as ONLY the mid drive and similar sprocket motors put massive force through the drive train.

A hub motor on the other hand, needs no supplemented "ebike" chain, as the torque is limited to only what the legs can deliver.

 

[mikeschn]

The overall strength of the ebike chain is supplemented.
One thing, when they say ebike chain, it is more accurate to call them mid drive chains, as ONLY the mid drive and similar sprocket motors put massive force through the drive train.

Agreed, I should have called them mid drive chains... but how do they strengthen them? Thicker links? I'll have my chain in a few days, I can actually measure them then... Meanwhile, I was wondering!

 

[rich c]

Strength comes from steel alloys and heat treatment. Never heard the master link called missing link before, but that's what is on the website. I've never broken a chain on a mid drive, and I have over 15,000 miles on mid drive eBikes. Bosch has shift detection, and I hesitate when I shift any of my eBikes. I get about 3,000 miles on a Shimano bicycle chain.

 

[fooferdoggie]

the difference is they cost twice the amount and give me an extra 500 miles. so instead of 2500 miles I get 3000 miles. so they dont pay for themselves. I was dissapoited and went back to normal 10 speed chains.

 

[JES2020]

Strength comes from steel alloys and heat treatment. Never heard the master link called missing link before, but that's what is on the website. I've never broken a chain on a mid drive, and I have over 15,000 miles on mid drive eBikes. Bosch has shift detection, and I hesitate when I shift any of my eBikes. I get about 3,000 miles on a Shimano bicycle chain.

There is a steep learning curve for mid drives that doesn't exist for hub motors.
However, there is absolutely no reason to hesitate while shifting on hub motor bikes.
From Biking.com:
"But for a mid-drive motor on your electric bike, it is recommended to go for a stronger chain specifically designed for e-bikes. Failure to do this will have you going through chains faster than you anticipated."

 

[mikeschn]

There is a steep learning curve for mid drives that doesn't exist for hub motors.
However, there is absolutely no reason to hesitate while shifting on hub motor bikes.
From Biking.com:
"But for a mid-drive motor on your electric bike, it is recommended to go for a stronger chain specifically designed for e-bikes. Failure to do this will have you going through chains faster than you anticipated."

I have a Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive on one of my FS bikes, and am planning on installing a gear sensor for the same reason.

 

[AHicks]

I think a LOT of this call will be about how much motor you're talking about. With some of the bigger Bafang's, it's pretty easy to justify buying better chains. My inexpensive Ultra based bike (Modified Rise RX Pro) is at 1500 miles now, with the chain and sprockets still in pretty good shape. It does have a shift sensor, but I've been riding and shifting so long now, that pause to get the shift timing right is automatic, I don't notice the sensor that much....

I'd agree with Rich here (alloys and heat treatment). Might also have some difference in the quality/design of the rollers, but I don't know enough about it to be much of an authority.

Best of luck with the new bike Mike. Will you be doing a build/rider impression, or have you done one already that I missed? -Al

 

[JES2020]

So I built up a Black Cypress with a TSDZ2, 48V 750Watt motor.

I suspect the weakest link is the chain. Ha! So I ordered an 8 speed KMC brand ebike chain and some missing links, to have handy for when the original non-ebike chain breaks.

So the question I have is, what makes an ebike chain an ebike chain? The thickness of the links? Something else?

Here's the chain I ordered! It's replacing a KMC Z8.3

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00K5T1RDU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I realized I didn't answer your question on what makes a ebike chain?
Ebike chains come in heavier weight, so basically the answer is more metal .
When you get your ebike chain you will feel how much heavier they are.

 

[Gionnirocket]

So I built up a Black Cypress with a TSDZ2, 48V 750Watt motor.

I suspect the weakest link is the chain. Ha! So I ordered an 8 speed KMC brand ebike chain and some missing links, to have handy for when the original non-ebike chain breaks.

So the question I have is, what makes an ebike chain an ebike chain? The thickness of the links? Something else?

Here's the chain I ordered! It's replacing a KMC Z8.3

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00K5T1RDU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Next time around maybe try the X8 which is a little stronger than the Z8 and can usually be found for about the same price as the Z8.

KMC 6 Speed Chains Chain X-8-93 for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for KMC 6 Speed Chains Chain X-8-93 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Though not eBike rated, it holds up well and no problems even without a shift sensor if you know how to shift any bike properly.

 

[Tom@WashDC]

I have a Mid drive BBSHD with Shift Sensor running peak watts of 1500. I did have some chain break problems in the beginning, but I was using the stock bicycle chain that came with my Mongoose Fat Bike . Once I installed the KMC E9 chain I have never had a problem. One thing I noticed on that chain is that it takes at least twice as much twisting force to break the chain with a chain tool, than on previous chains.

e9

KMC was the first chain manufacturer to develop special chains for e-bikes with mid-mounted motors. Our analysis of the power transmission on e-bikes with a mid-motor showed that the frequent shifting operations under load require significantly higher safety reserves that cannot be realized with...

kmcchain.us

 

[PedalUma]

Good stuff everyone! I am sold on the KMC X8. Today I went to my LBS and ordered 10 of them and got a 15% discount from retail. I do this when I start to run low. These last without problems. I have yet to have one break. Unlike the SRAM PC870. I sent that LBS a guy with a 700c eKona Cargo who wants a 26" wheelset today. They sent me someone who wants a conversion of a Gary Fisher Napa. I am working on it now. I regularly drop of a case of bottled cane sugar soda or a case of IPA for those who drink. That is the extent of my marketing budget. For 10,11,12-sp eChains I normally have the customer order them for themselves. These chains might not be 'economic' but much of human behavior isn't. For example, this White Industries hub is $386.60 and takes 16 weeks to ship.

 

[rich c]

There is a steep learning curve for mid drives that doesn't exist for hub motors.
However, there is absolutely no reason to hesitate while shifting on hub motor bikes.
From Biking.com:
"But for a mid-drive motor on your electric bike, it is recommended to go for a stronger chain specifically designed for e-bikes. Failure to do this will have you going through chains faster than you anticipated."

Do you think I'm lying about my mid drive motor experience? How many miles have you ridden on mid drives? I have right at 11,700 miles on 3 mid drives with 7,000 on the oldest one. What is the steep learning curve e you talk about? I get on one and ride it like I would any 10 speed bike. Just tell me how many thousand miles you have ridden a mid drive and share all your knowledge, instead of just telling me I am wrong. I find the most adamant detractors of mid drives are people that read the internet and don't ride them. I don't know just how many miles I should expect when I get 3,000 miles now. Think I'll get 4,500 miles on a stronger chain? 6,000? Absolutely no reason to hesitate when shifting? Well that explains why you think you must have a stronger chain.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Chill out dude !
Do you think the thousands of thousands of articles on mid drive chain breakages are lying???
Looks like you are living in a bubble of denial !
There are no alternative facts !

actually most of what you hear is people with hub drives claiming mid drive chains break all the time. its not a huge problem and I have never had one break. I also maintain my chains.

 

[PedalUma]

If installed by a novice or just re-using the original Big Box $2.49 chain then yes, expect problems. With high power mid-drives down shifting under full load will damage drivetrains. Crunch. On a ten-speed Campi road bike from the 70's bike you slightly ease pressure when down shifting. That is normal. Shifting under pressure is clunky and abrupt. With a snap. When the crunch and snap happen repeatedly at the quick link it will eventually twist and open. Particularly, if grime has migrated into the gaps. I have seen people who never clean, just spray with WD-40 which attracts dirt and becomes hard tar.

 

[AHicks]

So you have no direct knowledge, but love to pass on what you think is a full knowledge of the subject, including how to shift one. Answers my questions with your silence. Most all the issues in print are from Bafang monster mid drives on throttle only. There is a whole world of mid drives outside of that.

Rich, with 11k plus mile just ridden recently, clearly you've been riding 10 speeds for a long time. I think it's pretty common knowledge that an experienced rider is not going to have a lot of trouble with shifting an e-bike. No argument there.

Just for the sake of argument though, do you remember the first time you encountered a manual shift car/truck/tractor? How about that first bike that used a derailleur? How'd that go? Nice smooth shifts right from the get go? Or were you like the 99.999% of us that might have struggled just a bit, at least early on?

I think it obvious, not everyone is current with shifting a 10 speed efficiently. Some say 30-40 years ago maybe. MANY more have never even been on a 10 speed, with any experience they have riding a bike spent on a single speed.

All that in mind, I think it safe to assume a lot of new riders are going to have a learning curve riding a multi geared e-bike (not talking about YOU). Put them on a mid drive, and they may be a while getting that shifting down pat, wouldn't you think? Maybe use a few parts in the process? I believe that's where @JES2020 is coming from.

And I would add that all of the above are in play when I say riding a geared hub bike is brain dead simple compared to a mid drive..... -Al

 

[PedalUma]

Nuvinci? It is continuously variable. And uses an extra-wide and strong chain. Internal parts don't even touch. It is heavy but smooth.

 

[AHicks]

Nuvinci? It is continuously variable. And uses an extra-wide and strong chain. Internal parts don't even touch. It is heavy but smooth.

There you go. Another brain dead ride.....

 

[JES2020]

1 https://electric-biking.com/special-chains/
2 https://www.bestelectricbikes.com/chains-and-belt-drive-systems-e-bikes/
3 https://vcoregon.com/blogs/news/do-electric-bicycles-require-special-chains
4 https://ebikeshq.com/do-ebikes-need-special-chains/

I challenge ANYONE of the so called experts (because they own a mid drive),
to PRODUCE A SINGLE ARTICLE SAYING THE OPPOSITE !

Just because you ride a mid drive with a sensor and know how to shift DOES NOT MEAN the chains don't need to be stronger for mid drives.

 

[PedalUma]

There you go. Another brain dead ride.....

100%. I would rather be actively involved. Like driving a stick shift Miata up the Sonoma coast instead of a mini van across town. But a 36 yo mom trying to get kids to school on an eCargo has other things on her mind. She does not want to think about it.