Differences between ebike chain and regular bike chain...

[mschwett]

…
Just because you ride a mid drive with a sensor and know how to shift DOES NOT MEAN the chains don't need to be stronger for mid drives.

Sometimes I wonder if I this the kindergarten or maybe the dementia room!
I thought PedalUma had his head on straight ! Not according to his up vote of rich's nonsense.

not all mid drives are created equal, and not all riders are. Torque, weight, shifting technique… 7,000 miles of San Francisco hills on my mid drive with bone standard SRAM lightweight chains, replaced once and it wasn’t worn out, more like 60%... and half those miles on a lightweight fancy 10-42 cassette, also not showing any miles.

the secret is not really a secret: keep your drivetrain clean, lubricated, well aligned, use quality parts, and don’t shift under heavy load EITHER from you or the motor. an average adult male standing on a pedal puts more torque on the crank than a bafang ultra. don’t shift while doing that!!

 

[JES2020]

not all mid drives are created equal, and not all riders are. Torque, weight, shifting technique… 7,000 miles of San Francisco hills on my mid drive with bone standard SRAM lightweight chains, replaced once and it wasn’t worn out, more like 60%... and half those miles on a lightweight fancy 10-42 cassette, also not showing any miles.

the secret is not really a secret: keep your drivetrain clean, lubricated, well aligned, use quality parts, and don’t shift under heavy load EITHER from you or the motor. an average adult male standing on a pedal puts more torque on the crank than a bafang ultra. don’t shift while doing that!!

an average adult male standing on a pedal puts more torque on the crank than a bafang ultra. don’t shift while doing that!!

If your mid drive is 250w, then your "average male" is a top pro racer, because that is how many watts a pro racer exerts in a race.
Otherwise , if your mid drive motor is anything stronger than 250w you are putting much more torque than a pro racer.
It's not the crank that gets worn quickly, it's the transmission.

 

[mikeschn]

Dang, I didn't catch this... I somehow ordered a KMC X8 chain, because the Amazon title said it was an ebike chain. I don't doubt it's a very good chain, but the KMC website doesn't call it an ebike chain.

X Series

www.kmcchain.com

Meanwhile, KMC does have an ebike series chain...

eBike Series

www.kmcchain.com

I'm going to order an e8 chain, just so I can compare and report back with some numbers!

Update: I can't seem to find an e8 chain on Amazon in the US. The closest one seems to be in the UK.

https://www.amazon.com/KMC-Unisexs-Speed-Chain-Silver/dp/B08CDY1LLL/ref=sr_1_2?crid=343166OLGEI3U&keywords=kmc+e8+chain&qid=1654339033&rnid=2470954011&sprefix=kmc+e8+chain%2Caps%2C79&sr=8-2

 

[Gionnirocket]

Dang, I didn't catch this... I somehow ordered a KMC X8 chain, because the Amazon title said it was an ebike chain. I don't doubt it's a very good chain, but the KMC website doesn't call it an ebike chain.

X Series

www.kmcchain.com

Meanwhile, KMC does have an ebike series chain...

eBike Series

www.kmcchain.com

I'm going to order an e8 chain, just so I can compare and report back with some numbers!

Update: I can't seem to find an e8 chain on Amazon in the US. The closest one seems to be in the UK.

https://www.amazon.com/KMC-Unisexs-Speed-Chain-Silver/dp/B08CDY1LLL/ref=sr_1_2?crid=343166OLGEI3U&keywords=kmc+e8+chain&qid=1654339033&rnid=2470954011&sprefix=kmc+e8+chain%2Caps%2C79&sr=8-2

Yup.... Looks like you did order an X8 with the EPT rust protection, not eBike rated. (got you with the E_ in EPT and the Amazon mislabel)

Honesty I wouldn't sweat it and see how long it last. If you get +3000 mi out of it then I wouldn't bother with a typically much more expensive ebike rated one. I currently have 4750mi on an X8 with little sign of wear and the .75 stretch gauge looks no where near dropping down.
ymmv
If you have a programmable BBS* I highly recommend an elevated Stop Decay setting (>1000ms) as it all but eliminates heavy power lurches

 

[mschwett]

If your mid drive is 250w, then your "average male" is a top pro racer, because that is how many watts a pro racer exerts in a race.
Otherwise , if your mid drive motor is anything stronger than 250w you are putting much more torque than a pro racer.
It's not the crank that gets worn quickly, it's the transmission.

i’m not talking about sustained power, i’m talking about torque. a 200lb weight at the end of an 8” long crank arm is 133 ft-lb, which is 180NM!! of course that isn’t a sustained condition, but it absolutely happens and shifting while doing that destroys drivetrains. just like shifting while under full throttle on a powerful mid-drive would.

pro racers peak over 1000w, as much as 1500w for the very strongest.

Sagan, during an 18-second period of the Tour of Suisse’s stage 5, produced an average of 1,220 watts. Over that time, he reached 76.2 kilometers an hour and peaked at 1,417 watts — enough to power a small space heater or an espresso machine.

Michael Albasini (Orica-Scott), second on that day at the Tour de Suisse, averaged 847 watts during that same period. Velon stacked up the sprinters and found only Colombian Fernando Gaviria (Quick-Step Floors) came close. In stage 13 of the Giro d’Italia, he averaged 1,098 watts and peaked at 1,478 in a 21-second dash to the win.

 

[fooferdoggie]

If your mid drive is 250w, then your "average male" is a top pro racer, because that is how many watts a pro racer exerts in a race.
Otherwise , if your mid drive motor is anything stronger than 250w you are putting much more torque than a pro racer.
It's not the crank that gets worn quickly, it's the transmission.

they do more then 250 watts average thats like the min you can get away with as a starting racer. 350 or more watts average. they can peak at 1200 watts. I have averaged 200 watts myself. but I have also packed at 700 watts for really short distances.

 

[JES2020]

i’m not talking about sustained power, i’m talking about torque. a 200lb weight at the end of an 8” long crank arm is 133 ft-lb, which is 180NM!! of course that isn’t a sustained condition, but it absolutely happens and shifting while doing that destroys drivetrains. just like shifting while under full throttle on a powerful mid-drive would.

pro racers peak over 1000w, as much as 1500w for the very strongest.

Not that it matters:​

"Wattage goals will vary from person to person. No exact watt number is appropriate for all riders.
Generally speaking, a beginner cyclist may average around 75–100 watts in a 1-hour workout. A fit participant will average more than 100 watts, and pro cyclists can reach 400 watts per hour."

Power in Motion: Using Watts to Amp Up Indoor Cycling Drills

Are your indoor cycling participants maximizing calorie burn or just spinning their wheels? A simple physics equation can help your riders do the math.

blog.afaa.com

 

[JES2020]

Dang, I didn't catch this... I somehow ordered a KMC X8 chain, because the Amazon title said it was an ebike chain. I don't doubt it's a very good chain, but the KMC website doesn't call it an ebike chain.

X Series

www.kmcchain.com

Meanwhile, KMC does have an ebike series chain...

eBike Series

www.kmcchain.com

I'm going to order an e8 chain, just so I can compare and report back with some numbers!

Update: I can't seem to find an e8 chain on Amazon in the US. The closest one seems to be in the UK.

https://www.amazon.com/KMC-Unisexs-Speed-Chain-Silver/dp/B08CDY1LLL/ref=sr_1_2?crid=343166OLGEI3U&keywords=kmc+e8+chain&qid=1654339033&rnid=2470954011&sprefix=kmc+e8+chain%2Caps%2C79&sr=8-2

You can always return the chains you ordered by mistake. Or if it's not too late cancel the order.

 

[mschwett]

Not that it matters:​

"Wattage goals will vary from person to person. No exact watt number is appropriate for all riders.
Generally speaking, a beginner cyclist may average around 75–100 watts in a 1-hour workout. A fit participant will average more than 100 watts, and pro cyclists can reach 400 watts per hour."

Power in Motion: Using Watts to Amp Up Indoor Cycling Drills

Are your indoor cycling participants maximizing calorie burn or just spinning their wheels? A simple physics equation can help your riders do the math.

blog.afaa.com

right, lots of variation. my point is simply that while a motor and battery put out sustained power at medium/high levels for much longer than any human can, many or even most humans can put out enough power to destroy a bicycle drivetrain through improper shifting and maintenance.

here’s my power curve, based on the power meter in my non-e-bike…. and i’m nowhere near a pro, or even a competitive amateur, with a max heart rate of 130BPM

 

[Kayakguy]

Rich, with 11k plus mile just ridden recently, clearly you've been riding 10 speeds for a long time. I think it's pretty common knowledge that an experienced rider is not going to have a lot of trouble with shifting an e-bike. No argument there.

Just for the sake of argument though, do you remember the first time you encountered a manual shift car/truck/tractor? How about that first bike that used a derailleur? How'd that go? Nice smooth shifts right from the get go? Or were you like the 99.999% of us that might have struggled just a bit, at least early on?

I think it obvious, not everyone is current with shifting a 10 speed efficiently. Some say 30-40 years ago maybe. MANY more have never even been on a 10 speed, with any experience they have riding a bike spent on a single speed.

All that in mind, I think it safe to assume a lot of new riders are going to have a learning curve riding a multi geared e-bike (not talking about YOU). Put them on a mid drive, and they may be a while getting that shifting down pat, wouldn't you think? Maybe use a few parts in the process? I believe that's where @JES2020 is coming from.

And I would add that all of the above are in play when I say riding a geared hub bike is brain dead simple compared to a mid drive..... -Al

I learned to drive with a stick shift, first with a 3 speed column shift, then later with VW (4 speed) Honda (5 speed) etc. I rarely drove automatics, and always felt a bit ill-at-ease when I did.

Then, in Australia, I had to rent a right-hand drive 5 speed Honda, and I never mastered shifting with my left hand, after hundreds of ,er, kilometers. Ground gears every time. That was the one time I would have preferred an automatic. Even today, my Subaru is a stick.

 

[Pine_marten]

My error has been getting stopped at a light in high gear and then starting out with that heavy load. With a 42t Lekkie up front it eases things a bit though.

 

[JES2020]

My error has been getting stopped at a light in high gear and then starting out with that heavy load. With a 42t Lekkie up front it eases things a bit though.

I rarely come out of high gear, maybe if a hill is steep enough.
Getting started in high gear, I just use the throttle to quickly get up to pedaling speed.

 

[Angela M.]

This thread is officially locked. I cannot spend most of my time editing particular threads with the same few involved. Ignore those you disagree with. That is the basic rule of this forum. Stop bickering here in the forums, please. If that's the type of behavior you want to display then this forum is not for you.