Curious how others feel about class 3 speeds
- Thread starter ruffruff
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Chancelucky2
Well-Known Member
I have a Class 3 bike, but seldom go faster than 20 mph on the flats. On certain hills, virtually all bikes, powered or not, will go faster than 28 mph. Interestingly, when I've gone more than 20 mph on the flats on my bike, it's been to keep pace with someone riding a conventional bike.
batmick1
Active Member
Amen to that.Gee, there's a thought. It never occurred to me. The exhilaration of coasting down an empty road is just too much temptation to resist, such as at 39:33 below. The rest of the time, I'm too fat, old, and ugly to get past 38km/h without burning bucketloads of Whs.
So please do leave me that little bit of guilty pleasure.
The only reason I chipped my bike is so that I didn't have to deal with that stupid, arbitrary cutoff. I like to go my pace and my speed, which sometimes means way more than 20-25mph. I've hit 50mph downhill and I sometimes, if the wind is right and I feel strong, spin out around 35mph, simply based on my gearing. But most of the time, my cruising speed is around 22-23mph.
I actually hit similar speeds on my road and tt bikes, without "cheating".
Btw. what did you use to take that video? I love the info in the picture.
Asher
Well-Known Member
I did a poll here because there's a lot of hysteria about 28 mph e-bikes - just because you can go that fast doesn't mean you will. And only 1/23 reported going that fast.
On my Juiced I'd get 22-24 mph on the flats with a 250w assist, and lifetime fuel efficiency of 9wh/mile. And that was pretty vigorous pedaling which most ebikes aren't doing. roughly checks out with this calculator
electricbikereview.com
On my Juiced I'd get 22-24 mph on the flats with a 250w assist, and lifetime fuel efficiency of 9wh/mile. And that was pretty vigorous pedaling which most ebikes aren't doing. roughly checks out with this calculator
Class 3 Urban eBike Owners: What is your preferred cruising speed?
One of the misnomers about class 3 ebikes is that just because you can ride at 28 mph, everyone will always. I only rode at those speeds occasionally, and I imagine that's common. So I'm curious to know how others ride. For class 3 eBike Owners, what is your preferred day time cruising speed...
electricbikereview.com
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jabberwocky
Well-Known Member
I have a class 1 (YT Decoy MTB) and a class 3 (Giant Revolt E+). For trail riding, I think class 1 is fine. My Decoy actually cuts out at around 18ish mph. It can be a little annoying when I'm stringing trails together and riding pavement or something, but I'm still going much faster than I would otherwise. On the trail, if I'm going more than 20 I'm probably going downhill and not pedaling anyway. I'm not sure assist over 20mph is a good idea on singletrack, to be honest.
For road riding (mostly unpaved roads for me), definitely love the class 3. I have to put some work in to cruise at 25, but its nice to not have the assist cut out when I really want to move (on a busier road, usually). My usual cruising speed is probably within class 1 limits, but being able to push it to near 30 for short stretches is a nice option.
I'd say that where I start having issues is people who want to cruise at near 30 on electric alone. To sustain class 3 speeds requires a lot of motor power (my Revolt will do it but I'm usually working pretty hard to get and stay there), and to get any sort of range riding at class 3 speeds you need a lot of battery. If you want to average 28mph riding to work, you want a moped, not really an ebike.
For road riding (mostly unpaved roads for me), definitely love the class 3. I have to put some work in to cruise at 25, but its nice to not have the assist cut out when I really want to move (on a busier road, usually). My usual cruising speed is probably within class 1 limits, but being able to push it to near 30 for short stretches is a nice option.
I'd say that where I start having issues is people who want to cruise at near 30 on electric alone. To sustain class 3 speeds requires a lot of motor power (my Revolt will do it but I'm usually working pretty hard to get and stay there), and to get any sort of range riding at class 3 speeds you need a lot of battery. If you want to average 28mph riding to work, you want a moped, not really an ebike.
Bruce Arnold
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure what you mean by "on electric alone." If you mean throttle-only, no Class 3 bike provides this.
There are those, such as @Chris Hammond, who commute long distances and maintain a very rapid pace, for whom a Class 3 bike is essential. Along with that big battery you mentioned. I think Chris has one of the 21 Ah batteries Juiced Bikes used to make.
jabberwocky
Well-Known Member
Quick check says he modified max speed, so hes (legally) riding a moped, not an ebike. Which, to be clear, I don't really have an issue with. I do hope people who are running bikes that fast are staying off MUPs and such though.
6zfshdb
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Northeast Pennsylvania
As has been said many times in this thread so far, needing and enjoying class 3 speeds depends on the rider, the bike and where you ride. Obviously, opinions vary greatly as do the uses we all have for our bikes. Personally, I have nothing against class 3. If you feel the need for speed, then go for it.
In my case, I purchased an early class 2 before the 20 mph max controller programming was put in place. I've had the bike up to 25 mph on smooth level ground but I'm not comfortable at that speed and rarely exceed 20 mph. I also ride trails almost exclusively and seldom travel at more than 15 mph.
I almost bought a class 3 when bike shopping but decided against it mainly due to regulations. Class 3 bikes are prohibited on many of the trails I ride whereas class 1 & 2 are allowed. Yes, I know enforcement is almost non existent but since I really don't need the extra speed, I decided to stay within the law and went with a class 2 bike.
I suppose if I rode in traffic, the extra class 3 speed could come in handy. If I ever decided to ride on road, I'd consider buying a second class 3 bike just for that purpose. JMHO.
In my case, I purchased an early class 2 before the 20 mph max controller programming was put in place. I've had the bike up to 25 mph on smooth level ground but I'm not comfortable at that speed and rarely exceed 20 mph. I also ride trails almost exclusively and seldom travel at more than 15 mph.
I almost bought a class 3 when bike shopping but decided against it mainly due to regulations. Class 3 bikes are prohibited on many of the trails I ride whereas class 1 & 2 are allowed. Yes, I know enforcement is almost non existent but since I really don't need the extra speed, I decided to stay within the law and went with a class 2 bike.
I suppose if I rode in traffic, the extra class 3 speed could come in handy. If I ever decided to ride on road, I'd consider buying a second class 3 bike just for that purpose. JMHO.
Asher
Well-Known Member
I just wish MUPs would disappear and leave separate walk/bike trails in their wake. Some of the MUPs around by me are hardly wider than a one way proper bike lane.
Alaskan
Well-Known Member
I love zipping along at speed on my Bosch powered class 3 bikes. To relieve range anxiety I pack a second battery when going on longer rides.
Yesterday I did a ride on country roads, mostly in Turbo and had a blast. I worked hard at it with average heart rate at 112 and wattage at 108, average speed was 18.6, time 1:46. distance 34. I used up 60% of two batteries. I turn 70 this year, weigh 210 and have a pacemaker/defibrillator...speed is not just a young man's thing. Also we are blessed with a nice wide river valley filled with berry and dairy farms and lightly traveled, flat country roads, with the cascade mountains rising out of the valley to the east.
That said my quickest, snappiest performing bike is a Riese & Muller Delight Mountain with a delimited, Bosch CX motor that assists as fast and hard as one pedal. I once got it up to 44 mph on a downhill and 31 on flat ground with a tailwind. I put almost 4,500 miles on it last year. My other bike is a R&M Homage Rohloff HS with the class 3 28mph limit. It is a real pleasure to ride but lacks the hill climbing lower end torque of the CX motor which also delivers snappier performance off the line. I put almost 3,000 miles on the Homage last year. Neither bike has had any Electrical issues to date.
If you look at the spec details you will find that the better manufacturers up charge for the speed version is not just the motor tuning but also often includes better brakes, often four piston rather than two. Also the speed option is usually confined to their frames with more robust construction. There may be other components upgraded for handling the additional forces generated at higher speeds. Bosch does charge more for the speed motors. I don't have any idea if they do more than just reprogram their existing motor, or also upgrade different internal elements like different bearings. Even if it is just the former, I am sure they calculated the greater frequency of repair/warranty issues that pushing the motor that much harder is likely to generate.
Yesterday I did a ride on country roads, mostly in Turbo and had a blast. I worked hard at it with average heart rate at 112 and wattage at 108, average speed was 18.6, time 1:46. distance 34. I used up 60% of two batteries. I turn 70 this year, weigh 210 and have a pacemaker/defibrillator...speed is not just a young man's thing. Also we are blessed with a nice wide river valley filled with berry and dairy farms and lightly traveled, flat country roads, with the cascade mountains rising out of the valley to the east.
That said my quickest, snappiest performing bike is a Riese & Muller Delight Mountain with a delimited, Bosch CX motor that assists as fast and hard as one pedal. I once got it up to 44 mph on a downhill and 31 on flat ground with a tailwind. I put almost 4,500 miles on it last year. My other bike is a R&M Homage Rohloff HS with the class 3 28mph limit. It is a real pleasure to ride but lacks the hill climbing lower end torque of the CX motor which also delivers snappier performance off the line. I put almost 3,000 miles on the Homage last year. Neither bike has had any Electrical issues to date.
If you look at the spec details you will find that the better manufacturers up charge for the speed version is not just the motor tuning but also often includes better brakes, often four piston rather than two. Also the speed option is usually confined to their frames with more robust construction. There may be other components upgraded for handling the additional forces generated at higher speeds. Bosch does charge more for the speed motors. I don't have any idea if they do more than just reprogram their existing motor, or also upgrade different internal elements like different bearings. Even if it is just the former, I am sure they calculated the greater frequency of repair/warranty issues that pushing the motor that much harder is likely to generate.
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
You have certainly noticed Alaskan your Allant+ 9.9s has come with the rigid fork and not without a reason as rigid forks are safer at high speeds than the shocks (it also makes the bike lighter). Specialized had the same concept in 2017 with their Turbo Vado 5.0 but apparently the marketing people forced using cheap shocks in the future models.
Cyklefanatic
Well-Known Member
In Canada class 3 is not allowed. We are limited to 32kph. I commute to work 48km round trip and the extra speed when on the open road would be helpful. Hitting the limiter is like hitting a wall and the effort goes way up till you slow down. I often wonder that if instead of a hard speed limit there was a decel curve when you hit the limit it would feel more natural than a sudden shut down of assist. But the most frustrating part that really pisses me off is when a road cyclist passes me looks over and says “ebike” then speeds off and I can’t catch him. On the flats the Spandex road riders are doing 35kph or more. This is just not right.
On trails and gravel the speed is not needed. Also in the winter I slow down because I need to stay warm. So as always a rider needs to practice good judgement. Having a bit of extra speed in reserve would be a good thing.
On trails and gravel the speed is not needed. Also in the winter I slow down because I need to stay warm. So as always a rider needs to practice good judgement. Having a bit of extra speed in reserve would be a good thing.
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Ebiker33
Well-Known Member
The issue isn't throttle or torque or watts, it's speed and only speed, I have my bike set to 20 mph I don't want to go faster, on hard tails when I start hitting pot holes and bumps it doesn't feel as safe.
I think the industry rules are wrong, for people that live in area's that need torque and watts for graded hills, we want to climb those hills at 20 mph with just a throttle, that is all.
I feel the law should be amended, forget about throttle and motor sizes, only issue tickets for ebikes going faster than a road cyclist can peddle which is about 25 mph if you are really good with a light bike.
They should be code locked at the factory to that, and do away with all the classes, just have 2; off-road unlocked and road locked with engraved specification on the bike frame in the same spot so police can check them.
There is a better way to do this.
I think the industry rules are wrong, for people that live in area's that need torque and watts for graded hills, we want to climb those hills at 20 mph with just a throttle, that is all.
I feel the law should be amended, forget about throttle and motor sizes, only issue tickets for ebikes going faster than a road cyclist can peddle which is about 25 mph if you are really good with a light bike.
They should be code locked at the factory to that, and do away with all the classes, just have 2; off-road unlocked and road locked with engraved specification on the bike frame in the same spot so police can check them.
There is a better way to do this.
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Alaskan
Well-Known Member
I could not disagree more. I get it that you don't want to go faster. However many of us do and can do so safely and with courtesy. Try stretching your imagination beyond your own preferences.
The speediest most discourteous riders on mixed use trails are mostly roadies on high end road bikes, sometime in a pace line doing up to 30 mph with moms & strollers, people walking two or three abreast, with dog on a long leach and no bells on their bikes.
Having three ebike classes based on propulsion system to control safety is totally ineffective, needlessly complicated and unenforceable.
There should be bike speed limits on mixed use trails, bike lanes and roads regardless of how the bike is powered, legs alone or ebike. Bike speed is bike speed.
The class system is like having different speed limiters or governors on cars (that can always be stealthily disabled by electronic add-ons) or road speed limits on cars based on horsepower or the number of cylinders in the engine, turbo boosted or not. So much easier to understand and simpler to enforce a speed limit applying to all vehicles cars, bikes, motorcycles, etc. based on the road quality, neighborhood density, and other users. Shoot them with a radar. Going too fast, give them a ticket. No need to look under the hood.
Alaskan
Well-Known Member
I sometime ride my class 3 ebike on mixed use trails. Who can tell the difference? I never ride faster than about 12-15 mph when there are any walkers in sight. I always assume they are wearing ear buds and can't hear me. Whenever I pass any pedestrians I slow down to a fast walking pace especially if there is a stroller, little ones or a dog. If I want to ride my class 3 faster, I get back on the road. Just because your bike can go up to a higher speed does not dictate that you must ride fast everywhere.
A complicated, unenforceable class system does nothing to enhance safety or enforce common courtesy.
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Art Deco
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Selinsgrove Pennsylvania
This.
Having three ebike classes based on propulsion system to control safety is totally ineffective, needlessly complicated and unenforceable.
... much easier to understand and simpler to enforce a speed limit applying to all vehicles ...
Having three ebike classes based on propulsion system to control safety is totally ineffective, needlessly complicated and unenforceable.
... much easier to understand and simpler to enforce a speed limit applying to all vehicles ...
jabberwocky
Well-Known Member
The issue with "regulate speed and let is ride whatever we want!" is that we know it simply won't happen. Authorities have enough trouble enforcing speed limits on roads. The agencies managing most MUPs barely have the budget to maintain them, they definitely wont be buying radar guns and stationing the staff they don't have out there to regulate it. Its just a roundabout way of arguing "let me do what I want". I don't think its a good faith argument.
The issue I have with the desire for faster and faster ebikes is that, the main argument in favor of ebike access is that the are close enough to normal bikes that they can be regulated and treated the same. I know a lot of people in bike advocacy, and access and treatment under the law has often been a long, hard-fought battle (measured in years and in many cases decades). I'm in favor of ebikes being able to piggyback on that work, but the caveat is that the bikes actually need to be reasonably comparable to normal bikes to do so. Class 1 bikes are, IMO, close enough. Class 3, eh, mostly. Once you start adding throttle and power to cruise at more than mid 20s, you definitely are not. Which is fine on roads, but definitely makes me wince when it comes to trails and traditional bike/walk infrastructure.
I think the class system we have is pretty good. Its certainly more generous with power and speed cutoffs than most places in the world. Ebikes in the US have made some pretty massive strides in a very rapid amount of time, and states are quickly adopting the 3 class system. The fact that so many people in the community just want to complain about it is a little eye-roll inducing.
The issue I have with the desire for faster and faster ebikes is that, the main argument in favor of ebike access is that the are close enough to normal bikes that they can be regulated and treated the same. I know a lot of people in bike advocacy, and access and treatment under the law has often been a long, hard-fought battle (measured in years and in many cases decades). I'm in favor of ebikes being able to piggyback on that work, but the caveat is that the bikes actually need to be reasonably comparable to normal bikes to do so. Class 1 bikes are, IMO, close enough. Class 3, eh, mostly. Once you start adding throttle and power to cruise at more than mid 20s, you definitely are not. Which is fine on roads, but definitely makes me wince when it comes to trails and traditional bike/walk infrastructure.
I think the class system we have is pretty good. Its certainly more generous with power and speed cutoffs than most places in the world. Ebikes in the US have made some pretty massive strides in a very rapid amount of time, and states are quickly adopting the 3 class system. The fact that so many people in the community just want to complain about it is a little eye-roll inducing.
Captain Slow
Well-Known Member
I'm sort of on the fence. I agree that most of the time I don't see a need to go 28 mph, and yes if you wipe out at that speed it's going to be really bad.
But OTOH I do find 20 mph a bit limiting. I do find times when I want to go faster. So I don't love the 20 mph limit either. I think for me I'd be more than happy with a 24 or 25 mph top speed.
But OTOH I do find 20 mph a bit limiting. I do find times when I want to go faster. So I don't love the 20 mph limit either. I think for me I'd be more than happy with a 24 or 25 mph top speed.
Alaskan
Well-Known Member
A law or regulation is only as good as the extent to which it can or will be regularly enforced.
Yes any plan for park, road and trail way enforcement would require both personnel and equipment. Using a radar gun is the simplest most positive and direct form of enforcement. IF the concern is speed, measure it and enforce it and make it apply to all bikes. Stopping someone on an ebike to inspect their class sticker (something easily covered up with a dummy) or check on the make and model on line, is considerably more complicated and less plausible.
I can just see getting pulled over for riding my class three on a trail at 17mph mph and having some roady go streaking by me and the enforcement officer at 26 mph....but he has no motor (or consideration for others).
People of bad faith and bad manners will cross the line of any scheme that tries to make them more considerate. Reining them in has to be simple, easily substantiated and funded.
Yes any plan for park, road and trail way enforcement would require both personnel and equipment. Using a radar gun is the simplest most positive and direct form of enforcement. IF the concern is speed, measure it and enforce it and make it apply to all bikes. Stopping someone on an ebike to inspect their class sticker (something easily covered up with a dummy) or check on the make and model on line, is considerably more complicated and less plausible.
I can just see getting pulled over for riding my class three on a trail at 17mph mph and having some roady go streaking by me and the enforcement officer at 26 mph....but he has no motor (or consideration for others).
People of bad faith and bad manners will cross the line of any scheme that tries to make them more considerate. Reining them in has to be simple, easily substantiated and funded.
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