Curious how others feel about class 3 speeds

[Chancelucky2]

I have a class 3 bike, but sometimes wonder about the fact that I'm not officially supposed to ride on bike paths. So far, it's not been an issue and on the paths I ride very carefully. I'm wondering if there's anything like an "unchip": instead of undoing the limit for your bike, it might lower the limit (though I 'd like it to be easy to reverse).

 

[AHicks]

I have a class 3 bike, but sometimes wonder about the fact that I'm not officially supposed to ride on bike paths. So far, it's not been an issue and on the paths I ride very carefully. I'm wondering if there's anything like an "unchip": instead of undoing the limit for your bike, it might lower the limit (though I 'd like it to be easy to reverse).

Not that it's going to help much legally, but many bikes have a user configurable upper speed limit they can set themselves.

I think the Class limits are stupid, and there's little to no enforcement. It's not something I would worry about.

 

[6zfshdb]

I have a class 3 bike, but sometimes wonder about the fact that I'm not officially supposed to ride on bike paths. So far, it's not been an issue and on the paths I ride very carefully. I'm wondering if there's anything like an "unchip": instead of undoing the limit for your bike, it might lower the limit (though I 'd like it to be easy to reverse).

Just watch your speedometer like you do in your car. Just because your bike will do 28 mph, doesn't mean to have to go that fast. Use good sense and you'll be fine.

 

[Chancelucky2]

Not that it's going to help much legally, but many bikes have a user configurable upper speed limit they can set themselves.

I think the Class limits are stupid, and there's little to no enforcement. It's not something I would worry about.

Say I set the upper speed limit to 20 instead of 28. Would I then have a pretty strong argument that I'm riding a Class 1 bike? Couldn't the manufacturers simply make this a feature? If I can chip a class 1 bike to essentially make it Class 3, then the bike's "class" when sold doesn't necessarily determine it's class at the time the rider is riding it.

 

[AHicks]

The fact there are easy ways to change the bike's max speed, not to mention modify the bike's performance capabilities with so many other potential possibilities in many cases, is what makes the class limits so stupid - and is very likely one of the bigger reasons they aren't enforced much, if at all. My opinion, of course!

 

[Art Deco]

The fact there are easy ways to change the bike's max speed, not to mention modify the bike's performance capabilities with so many other potential possibilities in many cases, is what makes the class limits so stupid - and is very likely one of the bigger reasons they aren't enforced much, if at all. My opinion, of course!

This. No way to tell by looking at the bike what class, so cops and rangers have to ignore it .and pay attention to how you ride, which is probably what they should do anyway. 20 mph is 20 mph no matter if pedaling, throttling, or coasting downhill.

 

[Sierratim]

This. No way to tell by looking at the bike what class, so cops and rangers have to ignore it .and pay attention to how you ride, which is probably what they should do anyway. 20 mph is 20 mph no matter if pedaling, throttling, or coasting downhill.

Our LBS applies a small sticker on the seat tube that identifies the Class of each ebike they sell. They put Class 1 stickers on our Class 3 bikes so we're good to go...

 

[fooferdoggie]

well my bike has Bosch performance speed right on the mid drive it would be hard to hide that. plus on the frame it says class 3 and 28mph.

 

[AHicks]

well my bike has Bosch performance speed right on the mid drive it would be hard to hide that. plus on the frame it says class 3 and 28mph.

So if that sticker were missing, you're thinking that a local LEO would know the capabilities of something that said "performance speed" on it? My bet would be not unless he's a bike nut, and then it would likely depend on what you were doing to get his/her attention in the first place.....

 

[J.R.]

I can't speak to what is happening in local jurisdictions around the country. After spending a year in meetings and public forums, talking to regulators on the phone and writing letters to representatives, it's my experience government is getting up to speed on what ebikes are and what is legal fast. That includes law enforcement. Whether a particular officer will want to strictly enforce regulations, could be another matter.

We set up a test ride with local authorities and they turned out in large numbers. We just wanted to gain access to local trails, they were there to learn. I was surprised just how much many of them learned on there own. It went very well and they had a blast riding our bikes. Ebikes can put a smile on most people. Everyone wants to see public spaces utilized.

The best defense is to ride a legal bike, next best is to ride rationally and safely. I wouldn't count on regulators and enforcers to be ignorant of ebikes. We are mostly rural and they knew more than I expected. The one thing that angered them the most was people ignoring local regulations. To a few, they thought the easiest thing to to was ban them all. We were fortunate that cooler heads prevailed and we won access.

 

[Art Deco]

I can't speak to what is happening in local jurisdictions around the country. After spending a year in meetings and public forums, talking to regulators on the phone and writing letters to representatives, it's my experience government is getting up to speed on what ebikes are and what is legal fast. That includes law enforcement. Whether a particular officer will want to strictly enforce regulations, could be another matter.

We set up a test ride with local authorities and they turned out in large numbers. We just wanted to gain access to local trails, they were there to learn. I was surprised just how much many of them learned on there own. It went very well and they had a blast riding our bikes. Ebikes can put a smile on most people. Everyone wants to see public spaces utilized.

The best defense is to ride a legal bike, next best is to ride rationally and safely. I wouldn't count on regulators and enforcers to be ignorant of ebikes. We are mostly rural and they knew more than I expected. The one thing that angered them the most was people ignoring local regulations. To a few, they thought the easiest thing to to was ban them all. We were fortunate that cooler heads prevailed and we won access.

Yes it appears to an outsider that the whole 3 class system is a political compromize with little logic involved other than what can be sold to officials. So be it, it could be a lot worse...

 

[jabberwocky]

Yes it appears to an outsider that the whole 3 class system is a political compromize with little logic involved other than what can be sold to officials. So be it, it could be a lot worse...

The cutoffs might seem arbitrary, but the system is far from without logic. What ebike advocates want is to be treated like a normal bicycle. The various management agencies that run things like MUPs, trails, bike lanes and the like are generally not fans of powered vehicles and wary of allowing new groups. The class system basically lays out a set of limits that tell those agencies that the industry thinks things within these parameters are close enough to a normal bicycle that they can be treated the same. The more the class system gets adopted, the more comfortable other agencies are with it. Overall its a good thing. We can argue about whether the limits make sense; I think they are fine, personally, and looking at rules worldwide the US 3 class system is the most generous with speed and power that I'm aware of.

Its worth noting that IME, the people who evaluate these rules are more plugged in than you think. They do look at the industry and whats available. The widespread adoption of ebike tech by the big bike companies definitely played a role in the rapid adoption of the 3 class system. Everyone wants a uniform, consistent system.

The whole "ignore power and throttle and regulate speed" is generally a non starter. I mean, take that to its logical extreme. Could my neighbor take his Ducati down the local MUP as long as he pinky swears to obey the 20mph limit? Some of these arguments remind me of my friend who swears up and down that hes a better driver while talking on the cell phone, or people on car enthusiast forums scoffing at speed limits. Yes, I get that nobody really likes The Man telling them what to do. Rules sometimes seem capricious and arbitrary. Doesn't mean they are a bad thing.

 

[Altaman]

Jabberwocky your analogy does not hold water...Virtually every motor vehicle can go over 100 MPH, but we expect people to adhere to posted speed limits and 99% of the time people do and you do not see limiters to keep the speed to say 60MPH. We are for the most part adults and do not need to be told that our bikes need to be artificially limited 20MPH or a 500/750 watt motor. If people speed even on an ebike, then ticket them but don't punish the many for the few.

I would like to see them tell these people in Telsas that they have to have to have a limit placed on their cars so they can't go over 60MPH in their cars and the wattage of the motors cut in 1/2. Stop penalizing people who are trying to be environmentally friendly and trying to save money they would have spent on fuel.

 

[jabberwocky]

Ah, yes. That utopia of good behavior and rule following that is our road system. Definitely what we should be emulating. I was just marveling the other day at how everyone drives within the limit here in town.

 

[AHicks]

Ah, yes. That utopia of good behavior and rule following that is our road system. Definitely what we should be emulating. I was just marveling the other day at how everyone drives within the limit here in town.

<<<"What ebike advocates want is to be treated like a normal bicycle. ">>>

What I would like, personally, is an equal say in how the ebike rules that govern all of us are written. This vs. fighting the existing status quo of non bikers, and analog bikers, who seem to have turned a cold shoulder to any changes that might create equal status among ALL bikers. We could then move forward with some good common sense rules that would be mutually acceptable to everyone.

Any current thinking, that distinguishes or promotes differences between class 1 and 2 bikes for instance, is silly and without logic, especially when considering the number of aging bikers out there right now. My opinion....

 

[Bruce Arnold]

I'm with everyone who thinks that the 3-class system is not workable. However, it was what got ebikes made legal as bicycles where I live in North Carolina. There was talk about making them mopeds. Which means registration and insurance. So if that's what it took for our legislators to decide that someone had actually thought this out, what makes an ebike a bike and not a moped, then I'm all for it. It's the pragmatic viewpoint I suppose. It made my Class 3 CrossCurrent S legal where I live.

When I'm on a bike trail, I ride courteousy. I don't want to cause any grief. Same would hold true if I had an analog bike.

There are other reasons besides speed that make motorbikes (the example given was a Ducati) inappropriate for bike paths and MUPS.

 

[FlatSix911]

Ah, yes. That utopia of good behavior and rule following that is our road system. Definitely what we should be emulating.
I was just marveling the other day at how everyone drives within the limit here in town.

Exactly right... different strokes for different folks. VW or Porsche, your choice.

 

[Chancelucky2]

I'm with everyone who thinks that the 3-class system is not workable. However, it was what got ebikes made legal as bicycles where I live in North Carolina. There was talk about making them mopeds. Which means registration and insurance. So if that's what it took for our legislators to decide that someone had actually thought this out, what makes an ebike a bike and not a moped, then I'm all for it. It's the pragmatic viewpoint I suppose. It made my Class 3 CrossCurrent S legal where I live.

When I'm on a bike trail, I ride courteousy. I don't want to cause any grief. Same would hold true if I had an analog bike.

There are other reasons besides speed that make motorbikes (the example given was a Ducati) inappropriate for bike paths and MUPS.

I'm looking at Vehicle Code for North Carolina and it doesn't seem to use a class system for e-bikes and it's surprisingly permissive. It even appears that you can have a bike that goes beyond Class 3 speeds, so long as there's no throttle. (there may be other provisions somewhere, but this is the only reference I found)

North Carolina motor vehicles code 20.401 7 (a) seems to say this....Electric Assisted Bicycle. – A bicycle with two or three wheels that is equipped with a seat or saddle for use by the rider, fully operable pedals for human propulsion, and an electric motor of no more than 750 watts, whose maximum speed on a level surface when powered solely by such a motor is no greater than 20 miles per hour

e-bikes are also permitted pretty much anywhere one can ride a regular bike, including sidewalks and bike trails, as long as the local authorities or the trail doesn't specifically prohibit them. Somewhat shockingly, the salesman at an e-bike store had told me that North Carolina didn't let Class 3 e-bikes on trails. Maybe not surprising, the store didn't last very long here.

 

[harryS]

I feel OK with other riders using their class 3 speed, and applaud owners of true class 3 bikes that can ride there. They're putting in a lot of work with a torque sensor to get there. I had a bike with a throttle limited to 20 mph, but pedal assist could get me to 28 mph, When I did that, I was working so hard (it was a heavy beach cruiser) that it would have been hard to maintain my normal defensive riding habits on the street.

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[Ebiker33]

I feel OK with other riders using their class 3 speed, and applaud owners of true class 3 bikes that can ride there. They're putting in a lot of work with a torque sensor to get there. I had a bike with a throttle limited to 20 mph, but pedal assist could get me to 28 mph, When I did that, I was working so hard (it was a heavy beach cruiser) that it would have been hard to maintain my normal defensive riding habits on the street.

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What is a good average speed on a road bike?
The majority of riders can average around 15 mph. A good speed for a beginner is 10 mph, but you should be able to get to 15 mph pretty quickly. If you start training every once in a while, you could get your average up to 18 mph, but training on a regular basis could get you to 22 mph.

I think based on what unpowered road bikes can do for speed this is the happy medium with throttles, throttle until 20 then it cuts out, the next 8 mph you need to work for it, it may not be easy to perpetually maintain with a 75 pound bike and a 175 pound rider.