Curious how others feel about class 3 speeds

[TMH]

One other thing in the mix about liking Class 1 vs Class 3 bikes is the efficiency of bike itself and the motor system.

On at least 1 of my Class 1 bikes I find that I can easily and effectively pedal right through the 20mph cut-off and maintain 22mph or so on flat ground (I can see on the display that the motor has stopped providing power). Whereas on other bikes you can get to 19.5, 19.7, 20mph and it feels like you have run into a wall (or at least a 20mph headwind).

Sometimes this might just be due to the overall rolling resistance of the bike (fatter tires, running at lower pressures, etc.), but I also find it occurs on bikes like my Felt Sport-e 50, which runs on smooth 700cx38 street tires at 80psi.

If my first Class 1 e-bike was as efficient as I am finding my Haibike Trekking 7.0 to be, I don't know whether I would have felt the need for a Class 3 bike.

With all that said, however, I'm still gonna chip the Haibike

So I guess that it really depends on the difference in internal resistance various e-bikes & power systems have once the motor assist stops. Some just seem to have much more drag when manually pedaling, and these Class 1's are the least satisfying to me.

 

[Ebiker33]

I could not disagree more. I get it that you don't want to go faster. However many of us do and can do so safely and with courtesy. Try stretching your imagination beyond your own preferences.

The speediest most discourteous riders on mixed use trails are mostly roadies on high end road bikes, sometime in a pace line doing up to 30 mph with moms & strollers, people walking two or three abreast, with dog on a long leach and no bells on their bikes.

Having three ebike classes based on propulsion system to control safety is totally ineffective, needlessly complicated and unenforceable.

There should be bike speed limits on mixed use trails, bike lanes and roads regardless of how the bike is powered, legs alone or ebike. Bike speed is bike speed.

The class system is like having different speed limiters or governors on cars (that can always be stealthily disabled by electronic add-ons) or road speed limits on cars based on horsepower or the number of cylinders in the engine, turbo boosted or not. So much easier to understand and simpler to enforce a speed limit applying to all vehicles cars, bikes, motorcycles, etc. based on the road quality, neighborhood density, and other users. Shoot them with a radar. Going too fast, give them a ticket. No need to look under the hood.

I only want the limits to make it simpler for everybody to understand and regulate, I do agree with you that speed limits should be on mixed used trials. There are speed limits on the road for cars and they can and do go faster. This is all about common sense and safety for averages. Let's think about how government sets speed limits on roadways, lets say it's 50 mph. That means that massive semi can go that fast safely but the Porsche on the other hand could easily go much faster and safely as well but they are expected to not do it. From my perspective do we really need to classify a bike going 20 mph by peddle power or by throttle differently ?
I feel it's irrelevant. Again speed and common sense are much more important, you could be going 18 MPH on a people packed trail and it's dangerous and ignorant. Or you could be going 30 mph on a open hard packed trail and it's perfectly safe for an experienced rider and an Ebike that is built for that.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

Quick check says he modified max speed, so hes (legally) riding a moped, not an ebike.

I don't believe that is accurate. Cite your source, please.

 

[steve mercier]

I like being able to go fast. Most of my riding is in the 15 mph range. But when time is a factor, having the ability to go 25+ mph is welcome.

There is a 5 mile stretch of 4-lane highway between my little village and the next town of any size, where all the shops and my office are located, that I usually average 25 mph on. I don't think it makes me safer necessarily. I'm just eager to get that part of the ride over with. Honestly, I'm safer out on the slab than I am on the city streets.

And then there's the fun factor. Sometimes, I just like going fast.

I disagree that hydraulic brakes are not effective enough at over 20 mph. Not in my experience. As a motorcycle rider, I know that you grab a big handful of front brake because that's where the weight goes. Not neglecting the rear brake mind you, but you have to use plenty of front brake when you want to stop quickly. If hydraulic brakes aren't working for you at over 20 mph, there's something wrong with your brakes or your technique.

What he said!

 

[steve mercier]

Anything over ~20mph really is at the limit of modern hydraulic brakes. I generally ride my Class 3 under 20mph, mostly due to the locally steep hills, though I do enjoy coasting faster down them on a nice day. This of course is possible on nearly any bike. So why Class 3? I do a lot of errands through town that take me on loops up to 20 miles. There are several fairly flat city streets that keeping up with traffic is the safest way to ride. The Class 3 can do this.

that depends on the brakes. Hydraulic rim brakes on a heavy bike is not in the same league as 230 quad pistons on a light bike.

 

[steve mercier]

I think you have to look at it relatively. If manufacturers offer both class 1 and class 3 models, obviously the class 3 would be more expensive.

Why ?

 

[steve mercier]

In Canada class 3 is not allowed. We are limited to 32kph. I commute to work 48km round trip and the extra speed when on the open road would be helpful. Hitting the limiter is like hitting a wall and the effort goes way up till you slow down. I often wonder that if instead of a hard speed limit there was a decel curve when you hit the limit it would feel more natural than a sudden shut down of assist. But the most frustrating part that really pisses me off is when a road cyclist passes me looks over and says “ebike” then speeds off and I can’t catch him. On the flats the Spandex road riders are doing 35kph or more. This is just not right.
On trails and gravel the speed is not needed. Also in the winter I slow down because I need to stay warm. So as always a rider needs to practice good judgement. Having a bit of extra speed in reserve would be a good thing.

You need a Bikespeed my friend.

 

[Sierratim]

that depends on the brakes. Hydraulic rim brakes on a heavy bike is not in the same league as 230 quad pistons on a light bike.

True. I'll limit my comment to my personal experience; the Shimano Deore XT T8000 hydraulic brake system with Shimano RT76 203mm rotors on the front, 180mm rotors on the rear on the Specialized Vado 5, with a 200lb rider, are at their limit of effectiveness on the steep downhills I ride locally, often with groceries, etc. My braking technique is what my MTBing sons taught me and is similar to the technique used when I rode dirt bikes in my (much) younger years.

 

[steve mercier]

True. I'll limit my comment to my personal experience; the Shimano Deore XT T8000 hydraulic brake system with Shimano RT76 203mm rotors on the front, 180mm rotors on the rear on the Specialized Vado 5, with a 200lb rider, are at their limit of effectiveness on the steep downhills I ride locally, often with groceries, etc. My braking technique is what my MTBing sons taught me and is similar to the technique used when I rode dirt bikes in my (much) younger years.

Interesting! I have the same brakes and a heavier bike although I weigh only 155 but these work perfectly for me UNLESS it is raining hard.

 

[Sierratim]

Interesting! I have the same brakes and a heavier bike although I weigh only 155 but these work perfectly for me UNLESS it is raining hard.

A 45lb rider weight difference is a lot, plus groceries!

 

[steve mercier]

Gee, there's a thought. It never occurred to me. The exhilaration of coasting down an empty road is just too much temptation to resist, such as at 39:33 below. The rest of the time, I'm too fat, old, and ugly to get past 38km/h without burning bucketloads of Whs.

So please do leave me that little bit of guilty pleasure.

Me too ! I like descending a mountain road like that up to 60kmh also. True that a deer can step out and put out my lights but I only go that fast maybe 6-8 times a year.

 

[steve mercier]

A 45lb rider weight difference is a lot, plus groceries!

Can you go up to 230mm? https://www.bikemag.com/gear/components/brakes/first-impressions-sram-code-rsc-brakes/

 

[steve mercier]

Amen to that.

The only reason I chipped my bike is so that I didn't have to deal with that stupid, arbitrary cutoff. I like to go my pace and my speed, which sometimes means way more than 20-25mph. I've hit 50mph downhill and I sometimes, if the wind is right and I feel strong, spin out around 35mph, simply based on my gearing. But most of the time, my cruising speed is around 22-23mph.
I actually hit similar speeds on my road and tt bikes, without "cheating".

Btw. what did you use to take that video? I love the info in the picture.

In my youth I hit 50 mph on a road bike but now I turn into a hobbit above 60kmh. Notice that in the interim Canada went metric.

 

[Sierratim]

Can you go up to 230mm? https://www.bikemag.com/gear/components/brakes/first-impressions-sram-code-rsc-brakes/

The stock fork is actually rated for a max 180mm rotor so I'm pushing it with the 203. Not sure about the Shimano BR-M8000 caliper.

 

[indianajo]

I get passed by 5000 gas scooters for every ebike that passes me. 49 cc scooters can go 35 mph. Why worry about somebody else buying a class 3 ebike? I don't have to wear earplugs for the ebike.
Most dangerous pass was tandem couples (non powered) of some club whizzing across Big 4 bridge over the Ohio at 25 mph with toddlers wandering in circles and tourists everywhere walking backwards for a selfie with earbuds. I go 6 with those idiot pedestrians around.
I hit 35 mph sometimes down hill, if the pavement is dry. I have mechanical 160 mm disk brakes and am of the opinion I could stop in 15' from that speed. 320 lb gross with groceries in the back. Deer crossing at the stream at the bottom are a serious risk. I manage that mainly by not riding that fast at dusk or after dark. Several co-workers cars & trucks have been totaled by deer out in rural clark county.
I hit the street at 25 mph in 2017 on a pedal MTB; front skidded sideway on some gravel. Broke my chin. Now I wear a helmet with chin guard, which I tried to buy before the accident but didn't know the secret word for search engines. Also my stretch cargo bike has more weight on the front axle, which in 2 1/2 years has never skidded sideways.

 

[steve mercier]

This.

Having three ebike classes based on propulsion system to control safety is totally ineffective, needlessly complicated and unenforceable.

... much easier to understand and simpler to enforce a speed limit applying to all vehicles ...
[/QUOTE
Yes if I was the Emporer of all I would do away with Classes and go with speed limits.

 

[steve mercier]

The stock fork is actually rated for a max 180mm rotor so I'm pushing it with the 203. Not sure about the Shimano BR-M8000 caliper.

I do not know if it would help you but I love my Kool- Stop organic finned pads and want to shill them to all who will listen.

 

[Sierratim]

I do not know if it would help you but I love my Kool- Stop organic finned pads and want to shill them to all who will listen.

I recently installed these same pads. I'm hoping for better wear as I only got ~500 miles out of the stock Shimano organic pads. So far, so good.

 

[steve mercier]

I'm sort of on the fence. I agree that most of the time I don't see a need to go 28 mph, and yes if you wipe out at that speed it's going to be really bad.

But OTOH I do find 20 mph a bit limiting. I do find times when I want to go faster. So I don't love the 20 mph limit either. I think for me I'd be more than happy with a 24 or 25 mph top speed.

If they had set class 1 at 45 kmh I would probably never have bothered with a de-limiter .

 

[Ebiker33]

Some have expressed concern about breaking ability, just start installing these ones like the RADBURRO has.
https://radpowerbikes.ca/pages/radburro