Curious how others feel about class 3 speeds

[ez3putt]

I have a class 3 and the only time I have ridden 28 mph or faster was downhill and I start applying the brakes at 30. The only way my bike can get to 28 is in turbo mode with the PAS at level 9. I have never tried turbo and the only time I have used PAS level 9 was in the mountains on some pretty steep hills. I can pretty easily maintain 22-24 on flat roads with PAS level 7 or 8 and a fully charged battery. Currently, that is near the upper end of my comfort zone. I have never tried it, but I doubt my bike could maintain 20 mph on a moderately steep hill using throttle only.

For me, the throttle is a convenience and safety feature. I use it for starting from a stop, making sharp turns without down shifting, maneuvering through crowds on MUP's, riding narrow wooded trails (although mostly that is in PAS level one or two and low gear), etc.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

I'm looking at Vehicle Code for North Carolina and it doesn't seem to use a class system for e-bikes and it's surprisingly permissive. It even appears that you can have a bike that goes beyond Class 3 speeds, so long as there's no throttle. (there may be other provisions somewhere, but this is the only reference I found)

North Carolina motor vehicles code 20.401 7 (a) seems to say this....Electric Assisted Bicycle. – A bicycle with two or three wheels that is equipped with a seat or saddle for use by the rider, fully operable pedals for human propulsion, and an electric motor of no more than 750 watts, whose maximum speed on a level surface when powered solely by such a motor is no greater than 20 miles per hour

e-bikes are also permitted pretty much anywhere one can ride a regular bike, including sidewalks and bike trails, as long as the local authorities or the trail doesn't specifically prohibit them. Somewhat shockingly, the salesman at an e-bike store had told me that North Carolina didn't let Class 3 e-bikes on trails. Maybe not surprising, the store didn't last very long here.

Yeah, you can't just look at the legislation. It's true that they didn't adopt the 3-class system in the law. But they made class 3 bikes, and anything less, legal. And the folks who push this 3-class plan were very active in lobbying. So it had its impact in making the law as generous as it is.

Law is so much more than what's on the books.

 

[bikeman242]

How significant would an upgrade to 4 piston brakes be? I have a class 1 bike (BH Rebel Lynx) with 203mm front and 180mm rear hydralics and routinely hit top 20mph speed. Wouldn't complain to have more stopping power.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

How significant would an upgrade to 4 piston brakes be? I have a class 1 bike (BH Rebel Lynx) with 203mm front and 180mm rear hydralics and routinely hit top 20mph speed. Wouldn't complain to have more stopping power.

It certainly helps on downhill rides. The four piston brakes sport better modulation on braking.

 

[FlatSix911]

How significant would an upgrade to 4 piston brakes be? I have a class 1 bike (BH Rebel Lynx) with 203mm front and 180mm rear hydraulics and routinely hit top 20mph speed.
Wouldn't complain to have more stopping power.

I own the same BH Rebel Lynx and have looked into upgrading the brakes for long descents with a 3,000 ft elevation drop or more at 30-40 mph.
Here is what I have found from talking with the LBS mechanics and a bit of research... in order of cost-effectiveness.

1. Upgrade the pads first... lots of different options for Resin and Metalic pads - Shimano J04C
2. Next, upgrade the rotors to a bi-metal design for heat dissipation... Shimano Ice-Tech RT86
3. Finally, consider an upgrade to the 4 piston design... Shimano XTR or Saint, etc. - M9100

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

 

[Art Deco]

I own the same BH Rebel Lynx and have looked into upgrading the brakes for long descents with 3,000 ft elevation drop or more at 30-40 mph.

Just wow. That puts my wimpy half mile downhill at 18 to 20 mph into a whole different perspective .

 

[FlatSix911]

Just wow. That puts my wimpy half-mile downhill at 18 to 20 mph into a whole different perspective.

Yes, it can be a bit nerve-wracking... the key is to get off the brakes when possible and allow for some cooling.

Larger rotors with cooling fins, front and rear will also help to prevent brake fade due to overheating.

 

[AHicks]

Or go with a regen equipped bike to hold your speed in check.

 

[FlatSix911]

Or go with a regen equipped bike to hold your speed in check.

That really limits your options for a hub-drive mountain bike.

 

[AHicks]

That really limits your options for a hub-drive mountain bike.

Yup, means you convert to a GMAC

 

[FlatSix911]

Yup, means you convert to a GMAC

Funny, no major brands offer a hub drive EMTB.

 

[Chris Hammond]

Quick check says he modified max speed, so hes (legally) riding a moped, not an ebike. Which, to be clear, I don't really have an issue with. I do hope people who are running bikes that fast are staying off MUPs and such though.

This is correct. Almost all of my commute is in car traffic on roads that have bike lanes or wide shoulders. If I ride a MUP I slow down especially if there are others on the trail. As a former road bike commuter, I will say I feel safer on my ebike at 30mph than I did on my road bike at 20mph. When you are riding with car traffic, having your speed closer to the speed of cars is a huge benefit most of the time, (big exception is someone turning left in front of you not realizing how fast you are going). The rest of the time it gives you far better ability to merge into traffic to avoid obstacles in the bike lane, or when you need to merge into the left turn lane, it also allows car traffic more time to avoid hitting you.
I will also say thinking of my ebike as a moped is fairly ridiculous. There are plenty of times I can get my non-e road bike over 28 mph as I live in hilly Utah. In fact on longer downhills the road bike can achieve higher speeds than the ebike. Highest speed I've ever ridden my road bike is ~55mph, highest for the ebike is ~45mph. Does that make my road bike a moped???
I am pedaling hard the entire time I ride. If someone is riding an ebike that is <1000 W, its an ebike. Honestly, it needs to be > 1500W before the notion of moped should be even considered.

 

[Chris Hammond]

I don't believe that is accurate. Cite your source, please.

I have put the bike in "off road" mode by increasing the top speed. This allows up to ~ 35mph assisted top speed with a fully charged battery. However, my cruising speed is generally 26-30mph.

 

[jabberwocky]

I will also say thinking of my ebike as a moped is fairly ridiculous. There are plenty of times I can get my non-e road bike over 28 mph as I live in hilly Utah. In fact on longer downhills the road bike can achieve higher speeds than the ebike. Highest speed I've ever ridden my road bike is ~55mph, highest for the ebike is ~45mph. Does that make my road bike a moped???
I am pedaling hard the entire time I ride. If someone is riding an ebike that is <1000 W, its an ebike. Honestly, it needs to be > 1500W before the notion of moped should be even considered.

No need to get offended. I specifically said legally, and while I don't know where you live or what the law says there, here in VA that is a totally correct statement. Here, 3 types of electric assist bikes are actually considered e-bikes under the law: class 1, no throttle, limited to 20mph. Class 2, throttle permitted, limited to 20mph, and class 3, no throttle, limited to 28mph. All 3 have a 750w motor limit. If your motor is over 750w, or your speed is not limited to 28mph (w/out throttle) or 20mph (w/ throttle), you do not legally have an electric assist bike under the law, and would generally be under the part of the code that governs low speed vehicles like mopeds.

Its apparently surprising to a lot of people, but the law isn't what you think it should be in your head.

 

[AHicks]

Funny, no major brands offer a hub drive EMTB.

Funny, some think that because their favorite brands don't offer a hub drive EMTB, that nobody makes one. With an open mind on the topic, and a little investigating using Grin's spreadsheet, I think an open mind might wonder WHY no "major brands" aren't making EMTB's....

Geared hub 90nm plus torque figures are not that hard to find any more, which can often exceed what "major brands" have to offer - without the strain on the drivetrain to be concerned about?

 

[FlatSix911]

Funny, some think that because their favorite brands don't offer a hub drive EMTB, that nobody makes one. With an open mind on the topic, and a little investigating using Grin's spreadsheet, I think an open mind might wonder WHY no "major brands" aren't making EMTB's.... Geared hub 90nm plus torque figures are not that hard to find any more, which can often exceed what "major brands" have to offer - without the strain on the drivetrain to be concerned about?

You also have to consider the advantages of bike balance and gearing... again how many brands offer an EMTB with a hub drive? I have an open mind...

 

[AHicks]

You also have to consider the advantages of bike balance and gearing... again how many brands offer an EMTB with a hub drive? I have an open mind...

Not going to debate the topic, as it's been beat to death already and exactly what is a "mountain bike" is subjective. If you have an open mind, do some homework. Compare drive weights and available torque and form your own conclusions. If your opinion doesn't change, so be it. But I think given half a chance, the choices aren't as solid as you may think they are.....

 

[DanInStPete]

The primary reason we don’t see hub drives on “real” mountain bikes is because of unsprung weight, correct? I could never ride the bumpy trails I ride with a hub motor in my wheel...

 

[AHicks]

The primary reason we don’t see hub drives on “real” mountain bikes is because of unsprung weight, correct? I could never ride the bumpy trails I ride with a hub motor in my wheel...

Hubs are not unsprung weight on a hard tail (getting into the subjective part of what a mountain bike is that I was thinking of in my reply). And you know you can't because you've tried, or because that's what some "expert" told you?

Again, no wish to debate. I just hate some of these cliche ideas people have, based on no more expertise than what's been read on the internet - which may be based on OLD info. that's no longer relevant. It USED to be true.

In other words, I'm not buying it. You believe/do as you wish. All I'm suggesting is you keep an open mind about it.... -Al

 

[Mr. Coffee]

You also have to consider the advantages of bike balance and gearing... again how many brands offer an EMTB with a hub drive? I have an open mind...

I'd say that the vast majority of e-mtb sold and made are really more accurately described as "e-bikes with styling of a mountain bike" rather than actual mountain bikes. Bluntly if you took any of those bikes on a serious mountain bike trail (e.g. a double diamond run at Whistler) you'd end up with a streak of bike parts and gibbets on the trail in short order.

A lot of this comes down to bike geometry because most e-mtb have longer chain stays (and are largely forced to because of the added torque of the motor) which greatly limits their maneuverability, especially at speed. So on a difficult trail where you absolutely need to get air to get over and around obstacles you will inevitably miss tight corners if you go too fast. If you don't get that speed and momentum you will either messily crash into those obstacles or become axle dressing when some real mountain bikers catch up to you.

To be fair I live in an area with a fair number of super-athletes and I'd still say the vast majority of "mountain bikers" I see are riding on roads, and usually very easy roads at that.