Considering upgrading my Allant+ 8s to a Specialized Vado 5.0 IGH

Mr_Reality

Mr_Reality

New Member
Considering upgrading my Allant+ 8s to a Specialized Vado 5.0 IGH. Primarily interested in going to a Gates belt drive and trying out the enviolo automatic system. The bikes seem very comparable on power levels and battery capacity. We have excellent LBS for both Trek and Specialized in my area. What is everyone’s opinions on these 2 bikes?
 
No skin in this game cause I don't have a commuter style ebike. But....I do have opinions based on what I've read here & with ownership of the gates belt drive system.....

The Enviolo is always compared to the Rohloff in the ebike game. Suggest you look over the Riese and Muller owners section here: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/forum/riese-muller/ & look specifically for threads talking about the Enviolo vs the Rohloff systems. Bottom line: It appears to be a heavy, well built piece. It's drawback is it does not have the wide gearing percentage range that the Rohloff has. And I suspect at looking at the cassette on the Trek, the Enviolo would be hardpressed to beat the climbing ability of that Trek you have. In addition, riders acclimated to the stepped shifts of a cassette, Rohloff or Pinion drive would have to get used to the non-stepless Enviolo.

I see the Trek also has the ability to piggyback an additional 500wh extended battery, making for a terrific day touring bike.

Onto the Gates Carbon Drive: I have one on my analog Trek Soho DLX, coupled with the Shimano 8 speed Nexus IGH. Personally, I love it. However, though I really, really keep my bikes clean after each ride, I found the belt always develops an annoying squeak after a day on a dusty towpath trail. A matter of cleaning the belt with soapy water, yes. But out on the trail, it can be a bit irritating. YMMV.

Myself, asked between the two, I'd take the Trek and get the 500wh booster battery.
 
Mike TowpathTraveler said:
No skin in this game cause I don't have a commuter style ebike. But....I do have opinions based on what I've read here & with ownership of the gates belt drive system.....

The Enviolo is always compared to the Rohloff in the ebike game. Suggest you look over the Riese and Muller owners section here: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/forum/riese-muller/ & look specifically for threads talking about the Enviolo vs the Rohloff systems. Bottom line: It appears to be a heavy, well built piece. It's drawback is it does not have the wide gearing percentage range that the Rohloff has. And I suspect at looking at the cassette on the Trek, the Enviolo would be hardpressed to beat the climbing ability of that Trek you have. In addition, riders acclimated to the stepped shifts of a cassette, Rohloff or Pinion drive would have to get used to the non-stepless Enviolo.

I see the Trek also has the ability to piggyback an additional 500wh extended battery, making for a terrific day touring bike.

Onto the Gates Carbon Drive: I have one on my analog Trek Soho DLX, coupled with the Shimano 8 speed Nexus IGH. Personally, I love it. However, though I really, really keep my bikes clean after each ride, I found the belt always develops an annoying squeak after a day on a dusty towpath trail. A matter of cleaning the belt with soapy water, yes. But out on the trail, it can be a bit irritating. YMMV.

Myself, asked between the two, I'd take the Trek and get the 500wh booster battery.
Click to expand...
Excellent points. I am learning more about the enviolo hub and wish the bike had a rohloff option. Thank you for sharing your expertise.
 
I ride extended distances on my ebikes . I have Trek 7s . I go through cassettes and chains in a 1000 miles. 10 rides or so . That is about 3 weeks. I also have a bike with a Bafang mid drive , last even less. I don’t know what others are getting for mileage but a chain on a mid drive is not working for me. I have a deposit on the Specialized with belt. Also the closest dealer to me is a Specialized dealer, local support
 
opimax said:
I ride extended distances on my ebikes . I have Trek 7s . I go through cassettes and chains in a 1000 miles. 10 rides or so . That is about 3 weeks. I also have a bike with a Bafang mid drive , last even less. I don’t know what others are getting for mileage but a chain on a mid drive is not working for me. I have a deposit on the Specialized with belt. Also the closest dealer to me is a Specialized dealer, local support
Click to expand...
Everyone has their own style of riding; shifting up and down as per the conditions, spinning vs hammering the pedals, etc.

But a thousand miles on a chain requiring replacement is above and beyond the normal. IMO. If everyone got that kind of life out of a chain, the entire industry would be bankrupted, congress would be holding hearings :) and lawsuits smacked down on Shimano, KMC and others!

Of course, those high powered Bafangs have to be the cause of alot of chain stretching in these forums. And I think Bafang should be working with the components industry to design and build a more stout chain. But to do so on a 500 watt Bosch indicates a heck of a lot of low rpm hammering up a grade, tensioning that chain like an E note on the twelth fret of my Rickenbacker 12 string guitar!

@opimax: I was feeling pretty smug about having 11k miles on my original Shimano chain on my Haibike Full FatSix, Yamaha PW powered. I do alot of my riding by lightly spinning the pedals, always shifting to stay in my 75 rpm comfort zone. Plus, it extracts the most miles out of a battery charge. One day though, I tried what looked like a 60 degree short rise on a hiking trail near home, to see if the bike and I could do it. I stalled out and fell over about half way to the top. And had stretched the chain like a piece of overcooked spaghetti! Up until that point, I had chain ring wear in the front but never an issue with shifting, chain skipping or coming off the cog or front ring. Until that failed climb. After replacing that chain and front ring, I now have going on 6k miles on that chain and ring......no issues whatsoever. YMMV!

I think I strayed from the Opening Post....so I yield the floor! :)
 
Look at boutique builders like Zen…the majors have been deserting the independent LBS’. My local LBS has told me they would have no problem servicing Bosch or Brose
 
if i were going to consider switching out my Allant+8S i would go one of two ways: 1) more comfort - Specialized Como 5.0 (the all new 2022 model), 2) more versatile - Trek Powerfly 9 EQ (bought it for the trail rides so I can understand wanting more than the Allant+8S delivers.) but ... i will say, with the Redshift Shockstop suspension seat posts, both my wife and i are stunned at the comfort difference. it's like we are riding on a cloud. best $184 i have spent.

another way to put it, IMHO, chasing a final drive and transmission to "try it out" is not a good reason to sell your Allant+8S, because it is an "incremental" improvement that comes with negatives that (IMHO) more than balance out the positives. this from a guy who loves to try new things.

tim
 
the Allant+8S is pretty comfortable with the 2.5" tires. my bulls with 1.5" tires a rock shock road suspension fork and kineck seat post is far harsher. especially in winter when the tires feel even harder.
 
yes, so to contradict myself, (amend the record haha) WITH the upright handlebar, better seat, and most important suspension seat post, the comfort level of our Allant+8S is fantastic. Como would be more comfortable only due to the slightly more upright seating position (less weight on hands/wrists) and front suspension fork. that said, sitting more upright like we do now on the Allants, 80% (approximately) of our weight is on the seat, not bars so a front suspension would not make a major difference. The upright seating position puts a greater need for comfort on the seat itself and the suspension seat post. Both now "fixed" on our Allants.

i didn't realize how much of our weight was on the seat until the Redshift was installed and it cured almost all my ride comfort issues, while keeping the fixed, front forks.

things are always a little different than you think and then you start making changes and see new things that are different. the old "known unknowns" and "unknown unknowns." life is full of both. tim
 
I have the Vado. Did my first decent ride on it yesterday (about 16 miles). So far, good power and battery life. I’m enjoying the enviolo. Coming from a Roll (which is basically the non-electric Como) I like the new Vado position better. It’s not as upright but it’s also not too aggressive. I have the Kinekt seatpost and it was an amazingly comfy ride.
 
Mike TowpathTraveler said:
No skin in this game cause I don't have a commuter style ebike. But....I do have opinions based on what I've read here & with ownership of the gates belt drive system.....

The Enviolo is always compared to the Rohloff in the ebike game. Suggest you look over the Riese and Muller owners section here: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/forum/riese-muller/ & look specifically for threads talking about the Enviolo vs the Rohloff systems. Bottom line: It appears to be a heavy, well built piece. It's drawback is it does not have the wide gearing percentage range that the Rohloff has. And I suspect at looking at the cassette on the Trek, the Enviolo would be hardpressed to beat the climbing ability of that Trek you have. In addition, riders acclimated to the stepped shifts of a cassette, Rohloff or Pinion drive would have to get used to the non-stepless Enviolo.

I see the Trek also has the ability to piggyback an additional 500wh extended battery, making for a terrific day touring bike.

Onto the Gates Carbon Drive: I have one on my analog Trek Soho DLX, coupled with the Shimano 8 speed Nexus IGH. Personally, I love it. However, though I really, really keep my bikes clean after each ride, I found the belt always develops an annoying squeak after a day on a dusty towpath trail. A matter of cleaning the belt with soapy water, yes. But out on the trail, it can be a bit irritating. YMMV.

Myself, asked between the two, I'd take the Trek and get the 500wh booster battery.
Click to expand...
Mike nailed this.. In the Specialized forum, were seeing this to be somewhat of an issue. I actually went from a Trek 8+(CX motor unlocked) to the 5.0 IGH and its a FAR better bike imo.. I rode the Allant again a few days after getting the 5.0 and it just feels twice as slow, heavy etc.. even though the Vado is likely heavier. On flats and for normal commuting the Vado is an absolutely fanastic bike.. its quick, fairly quiet, handles well for a heavy bike, pedals pretty well and is extremely efficient on battery. The primary issue sees to be the limited gearing which may put it on par with the bike you already own for climbs as mentioned and other terrain.. however the trade off is a more efficient ride overall, larger battery, faster etc. The Vado comes with a suspension seatpost stock as well.

Overall its a really strong ride, but you will want to calibrate the enviolo when you receive it for best performance and also focus on which cadence settings work best for your riding style.
 
Last edited:
Gee_Whiz said:
Mike nailed this.. In the Specialized forum, were seeing this to be somewhat of an issue. I actually went from a Trek 8+(CX motor unlocked) to the 5.0 IGH and its a FAR better bike imo.. I rode the Allant again a few days after getting the 5.0 and it just feels twice as slow, heavy etc.. even though the Vado is likely heavier. On flats and for normal commuting the Vado is an absolutely fanastic bike.. its quick, fairly quiet, handles well for a heavy bike, pedals pretty well and is extremely efficient on battery. The primary issue sees to be the limited gearing which may put it on par with the bike you already own for climbs as mentioned and other terrain.. however the trade off is a more efficient ride overall, larger battery, faster etc.

Overall its a really strong ride, but you will want to calibrate the enviolo when you receive it for best performance and also focus on which cadence settings work best for your riding style.
Click to expand...
the fat tires and maybe the motor you have on it really limits its acceleration and speed. my bulls with the bosch gen 2 speed more is faster and accelerates better. if I wanted to spend a little money. I could put my wheels from my bulls onto it ands get a better test or just put smaller tires on it
 
Well, I happen to own a Homage with Rohloff and a new Vado 5 with the Automatiq Enviolo hub. They are goth terrific bikes. With dual suspension on the Homage is a wonderful ride coupled with the drop seat and the wonderful Nyon computer coupled with the Roloff hub and Bosch engine makes it a joy to ride. I have had a Stromer some time ago along with a Vado 6 and this new Vado 5 is truly a really decent bike. It turns out that with a bit of tuning in terms of the setup, the bike climbs really well. I rode a very hilly 19 mile ride today and used up 30% on the ride. I used the Eco when it went ,but the Sport often took over and surely some turbo along the tougher climbs. The shifting is amazing, you simply hit the plus or minus key and you can easily keep track of what riding between 1, 2, and 3 by checking the iPhone put on my handlebar and converted to mission control on a "Ride". You can watch the map or the Stats and the gear you are in pops out. It is a neat ride, for sure. It turns out to be a nice addition to the Homage and while the Homage is a wonderful ride, The Vado 5 does pretty decent by comparison. I have it because should I run into a problem with the R&M, it is not in my local area and I have to go to NY or Ottawa as closet to me. And at least I can still get out there for a ride should this come up...
 
smitty said:
Well, I happen to own a Homage with Rohloff and a new Vado 5 with the Automatiq Enviolo hub. They are goth terrific bikes. With dual suspension on the Homage is a wonderful ride coupled with the drop seat and the wonderful Nyon computer coupled with the Roloff hub and Bosch engine makes it a joy to ride. I have had a Stromer some time ago along with a Vado 6 and this new Vado 5 is truly a really decent bike. It turns out that with a bit of tuning in terms of the setup, the bike climbs really well. I rode a very hilly 19 mile ride today and used up 30% on the ride. I used the Eco when it went ,but the Sport often took over and surely some turbo along the tougher climbs. The shifting is amazing, you simply hit the plus or minus key and you can easily keep track of what riding between 1, 2, and 3 by checking the iPhone put on my handlebar and converted to mission control on a "Ride". You can watch the map or the Stats and the gear you are in pops out. It is a neat ride, for sure. It turns out to be a nice addition to the Homage and while the Homage is a wonderful ride, The Vado 5 does pretty decent by comparison. I have it because should I run into a problem with the R&M, it is not in my local area and I have to go to NY or Ottawa as closet to me. And at least I can still get out there for a ride should this come up...
Click to expand...
Smitty: I have narrowed my search down to the Homage and the Vado 5, so you are ”the man” when it comes to my choices. I mainly ride on paved bike paths, but would like to start to “explore“ some trails. Nothing crazy, just looking for “low and slow” with safety being the number one priority. With the full suspension, would the Homage have an advantage for off-road? Also, do you have the Homage with the double battery - I tend towards range anxiety. Than you in advance for the advice.
 
RAB63 said:
Smitty: I have narrowed my search down to the Homage and the Vado 5, so you are ”the man” when it comes to my choices. I mainly ride on paved bike paths, but would like to start to “explore“ some trails. Nothing crazy, just looking for “low and slow” with safety being the number one priority. With the full suspension, would the Homage have an advantage for off-road? Also, do you have the Homage with the double battery - I tend towards range anxiety. Than you in advance for the advice.
Click to expand...
Rab63, I think the Homage looks fantastic. I own a couple of Trek Powerfly 9’s and Allant+8S which is a similar comparison to your final two with a big difference: our Powerfly bikes are leaned over in a mountain bike position with a fair amount of weight on your hands. Perfect for off road trails but not ideal for the paved paths.

The Homage appears to sit very upright, which is much better for paved paths but … puts almost all of your weight on your butt … which means you will really appreciate that rear suspension.

Id you select the knobbier tires you can explore off road much more confidently than street slicks.

The Homage is incredible looking to me. Yes, pricey, but it really could be a one bike solution.

Imho, tim
 
RAB63 said:
Smitty: I have narrowed my search down to the Homage and the Vado 5, so you are ”the man” when it comes to my choices. I mainly ride on paved bike paths, but would like to start to “explore“ some trails. Nothing crazy, just looking for “low and slow” with safety being the number one priority. With the full suspension, would the Homage have an advantage for off-road? Also, do you have the Homage with the double battery - I tend towards range anxiety. Than you in advance for the advice.
Click to expand...
Question: Is the Homage class 1 or 3? I would not be happy with class 1 for paved riding. Ymmv, tim
 
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