Vado 5.0 IGH versus Tero 5.0 (EQ pack)

[Stefan Mikes]

My experience:

• A Full Suspension e-bike: No need for the suspension seat-post but a dropper seat-post is a must. Tero X has the dropper.
• Any hardtail bike will benefit from Kinekt 2.1 or Redshift ShockStop. I own both suspension seat-posts and am very happy with each.

I understand Rich's need for a suspension dropper post. The PNW has never worked for me though.

I haven't booked a demo ride on Tero X as it looks the news hit my Specialized owned LBS as a surprise They have to get the demo Tero X first. As usual, that would be the lowest spec model which will only give the rough idea. For instance, I had a chance to demo ride Tero 3.0. My impression was positive only I hated the heavy and inefficient Suntour fork* there. Then I just tried how the suspension fork worked and felt on Tero 5.0 and liked that very much.
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*) Because I was comparing it to the 150 mm travel Fox air-fork of my Trance E+. Honestly, even Redshift ShockStop suspension stem was giving me more comfort! I need to mention the short travel Suntour Mobie fork on my Vado 6.0 is surprisingly good but very heavy.

 

[dynamic]

I just put a PNW suspension dropper (Coast) on my Tero 5.0 and finally had good enough weather to ride my 5.5 mile test track. It includes about a mile of pavement (no traffic, no lines but good surface) and the rest is gravel, dirt, mud, hills, pot holes, ruts, cattle guards and rocks. I had my doubts about the amount of suspension a dropper/air shock seat post could provide, but I have to say it performs better than expected and makes the ride more pleasurable. I was actually hitting the pot holes and ruts rather than avoiding them. And Im back to my OE saddle having retired my spring assist grampa seat. Wasn’t sure about that wither but it’s a good riddence. Im 235lbs and that seat was constantly bottoming out, jolting my back and making noise. This new post is smooth, quiet, and provides plenty of cushioning - if I encounter a bump too big for it I’ll already be off the seat anyway.

So what does this have to do with anything? I don’t see the $1500 benefit to a suspension Tero, don’t see the need or usefullness of the mullet, and find it under-geared for anything but trails. So it really doesn't really meet the “you‘re gonna need a bigger map” standard, and maybe the cost of the hardtail Tero will come down a bit (I paid $4500 for mine), or perhaps some lightly used ones will hit the market when the “gotta have the latest and greatest“ folks run out and buy an X. I put my extra cash into drive train, electronics, and ergonomics/performance upgrades and even though I just bought the bikes three months ago, I don’t regret “missing out” on the X.

I also got to really test my new Eagle AXS system today and love it! Fast, precise, and nimble. And one less cable on a busy and cluttered front end. I opted for the PG 12sp cassette (1230) because I didn’t want to switch to an XD driver, and its just fine, but doesn’t allow for a 10T cog so an XD driver and XG cassette might be next allowing the use of the 10-52 cassette, along with my 48T chainring. Seems ideal to me. Right now I’m using a 44T and 11-50 cassette and its a major improvement in top end while maintaining my OE low gear ratio. With a few mods to make it fit my riding style the 5.0 is perfect!

Having not ridden a full suspension, I can't really know what I would be missing. The thing that interests me is the low gear range which lags only behind a few bikes (and none of them are electric, stuff like the pinion). This should allow me to tackle those 12-15% inclines with less assistance. The high end does take a huge hit. All these bikes (except the priority current which had a much higher gear balance toward top gears) are basically coast downhill options because pedaling is pointless on my terrain. That said, my flx has more low end gearing than it needs. So I wouldn't be surprised if the tero X is also geared too low. It's hard to say since the bafang is basically *always* putting out equal to or more power than the brose. The vado was constantly in its lowest gear when climbing these hills. The FLX is usually in gear 4 or 5.

But, I agree, if I owned a vado, como or tero, I wouldn't be interested much in the tero x. It just seems like a great option for the mixed rider who doesn't already have such a bike. I am trying to stay away from the n + 1 equation. Successfully so far.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Tero X is very close to the proper MTB gearing ratio: It is 21 gear-inches (or 0.76 gear ratio) in the granny gear based on the rear wheel size. A full blown mountain bike has the granny gear from 20 gear-inches down. Of course, it affects the road speed. Nothing stops the user to install a bigger or a smaller chainring though (within some limits).
Now: Is Tero X Class 1 or 3?

 

[dynamic]

A full blown mountain bike has the granny gear from 20 gear-inches down.

By my math, on these tires (not sure which to use for a mullet) it is 17.5 gear inches on the tero X. So it really is mountain bike territory.

 

[Rich W.]

Another super insightful post thanks @Rich W. I will be re-reading this to get my head around the gear ratios (total newbie here). What did you mean by one less cable in your post above?

I feel like I agree with you regarding the outlay in the T-reX @Prairie Dog not adding up with what the Tero is giving.

For gear ratios and speed-at-cadence analysis I use https://www.bikecalc.com/ . It took a little trial and error to get comfortable with it, but it is very handy. You can look at what ratios will result or speeds you will achielve at a given cadence with different chainrings and cogs. The two primary areas of of focus for me were top speed and lowest gear ratio. But you can load in an entire cassette, two chain rings, etc - all kinds of possibilities. Fun!

For example the lowest ratio on a Tero (with OE 36T chainring with a 42T cog) is almost identical to a 44T chainring and a 50T cog - my new set-up (you can also just do the simple math but bikecalc is quicker and provides a lot of other info). This was helpful in maintaining my OE low ratio (granny gear) while increasing my top speed for street riding. For top speed that 44T chainring driving an 11T cog yields about the same results as a 48T/11T on a Vado with 27.5” wheels. (Actually a Vado still beats my top speed by 1 mph).

Specialized geared the Tero like a Levo (or very close to it) but billed it as a “go anywhere, do anything, super-hero” bike. I didn’t understand at the time how limited it would be on the street with OE gearing. I spent some time and money getting it to perform well in both trail and street situations but it was worth it. There is no “one size fits all” bike (that I know of) so picking a platform I liked, riding and learning it, then upgrading to my preferences was what worked for me. I can still ride mild to moderate (mildly moderate) single tracks, run fast enough on gravel and good dirt roads, and also run in the mid-30’s in the street.

The “one less cable up front” resulted from up-grading to the Eagle AXS wireless shifting system. I didn’t need to do this but since I was changing from an 11sp to 12sp cassette (to get my 50T cog), I needed a 12sp derailleur and shifter, so I decided to reward myself with electronic shifting while I was at it. The upgrade kit was around $450 ($633 msrp) from my LBS (with free installation!) so given everything else it was only around $250 more than a mechanical shift 12sp upgrade. I like it and in its new “Super Tero” trim (guess I can’t use 6.0 anymore) it seems fitting.


A couple screen shots from Bikecalc showing results mentioned above (there are numerous other combinations and parameters):

 

[Rich W.]

By my math, on these tires (not sure which to use for a mullet) it is 17.5 gear inches on the tero X. So it really is mountain bike territory.

Might as well just buy a levo. The 38T chainring almost looks promising in the specs until you consider the mullet rear wheel. And looking at the chainstay (typical with rear suspension) it will not accept a much bigger chainring - maybe 40T at the most. So if you buy a Tero X you are buying an EQ trail bike. It would be slow (and for me frustrating) on gravel/road. But it will climb better than Tero with its 11-50 12sp cassette, if that’s what you want to do.

Can you explain “gear inches” to me? I’m guessing it adds rear wheel diameter to the gear ratio equation to give a final number you can use to compare bikes, but not sure how to get there. Bikecalc will give you speed at cadence with these specs (front and rear gear with wheel diameter), or ratios based in front and rear gears, but not both. Unless I’m missing something there.

 

[dynamic]

(guess I can’t use 6.0 anymore)

Do what specialized does: Bump the number. You are the proud owner of a Tero 7.0. Congratulations!

Can you explain “gear inches” to me? I’m guessing it adds rear wheel diameter to the gear ratio equation to give a final number you can use to compare bikes

Bingo. You can lookup the formula or just use the mentioned bike calc I think. I have a spreadsheet for it. https://www.bikecalc.com/gear_inches this calculator does it.

Might as well just buy a levo.

I think the levo would be even worse around town not just from a gearing perspective but from a frame geometry perspective. I have hills everywhere and flat sections really aren't speed friendly. So a *comfort* bike with mountain leaning gearing is basically the "ideal" for me. Still tempted by pinion.

 

[dynamic]

Bingo. You can lookup the formula or just use the mentioned bike calc I think. I have a spreadsheet for it. https://www.bikecalc.com/gear_inches this calculator does it.

Oh, sorry, that one doesn't include tire size. But, yeah, it's still the idea.

 

[dynamic]

Oh, sorry, that one doesn't include tire size. But, yeah, it's still the idea.

Nevermind, yes it does. *PAY ATTENTION* sorry.

By my math, on these tires (not sure which to use for a mullet) it is 17.5 gear inches on the tero X. So it really is mountain bike territory.

For the record my math was wrong. Entered the wrong chainring size. Definitely 21-22 gear inches.

 

[Rich W.]

Do what specialized does: Bump the number. You are the proud owner of a Tero 7.0. Congratulations!



Bingo. You can lookup the formula or just use the mentioned bike calc I think. I have a spreadsheet for it. https://www.bikecalc.com/gear_inches this calculator does it.



I think the levo would be even worse around town not just from a gearing perspective but from a frame geometry perspective. I have hills everywhere and flat sections really aren't speed friendly. So a *comfort* bike with mountain leaning gearing is basically the "ideal" for me. Still tempted by pinion.

Ok, I understand inches on bikecalc now - didn’t know what that was. More fun stuff to calculate - Thanks!

 

[Rich W.]

Ok so in “Gear Inches”:

Tero X Tero 5.0 Super Tero (me)

Granny 21.05 25.10 25.69

High 95.54 95.45 116.75

So the X will climb best, the X and 5.0 have the same top speed, and Super Tero will climb like a Tero but leave both in the dust on gravel and road. Works for me.

Screen shot of my chart since EBR doesn’t seem to save the spaces:


Vado by comparison is 31.57 and 120.74
Levo is 18.04 and 82.04.

 

[dynamic]

Vado by comparison is 31.57 and 120.74

Yeah, and my issue is the vado *still* didn't have enough top end to make it useful on my terrain where flat is a very small part of the experience. So uphill: barely low enough. Downhill: still a coasting experience. ;P

You might want to checkout sheldon brown's gain ratio. It also accounts for the length of the cranks.

 

[Rich W.]

Yeah, and my issue is the vado *still* didn't have enough top end to make it useful on my terrain where flat is a very small part of the experience. So uphill: barely low enough. Downhill: still a coasting experience. ;P

You might want to checkout sheldon brown's gain ratio. It also accounts for the length of the cranks.

We were just talking about crank length here. I’ll take a look.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Just for comparison:

 

[Ben J]

The “one less cable up front” resulted from up-grading to the Eagle AXS wireless shifting system.

Out of curiosity, were you able to integrate that with bike power? On bikes like the Trek FS9 EQ, there's a little battery-shaped module with a wire that connects to the derailleur part so you never have to mess with recharging.