Cadence choices in ebiking

[PSm]

From Strava, from a virtual race on an indoor spin bike

From Strava, on an outdoor e-bike (single speed) metric century, approx 4 hours

 

[fooferdoggie]

My cadence usually averages about 64-67. I adjust the gears and the assist to maintain a consistent cadence. You people spinning around at 75-80 must have better knees than I do. I don't want to overuse my hinges, because I have a theory that like all mechanisms, we only get a certain number of movements (opening and closing of the knee joint) before we wear them out. Just seems frantic at that rate, though I might spin like that if I'm trying to really book it.

but it takes more effort on your knees to go slower too. so kind of a catch 22.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

My cadence usually averages about 64-67. I adjust the gears and the assist to maintain a consistent cadence. You people spinning around at 75-80 must have better knees than I do.

Fascinating! Theories about service life aside, are you saying that your knees feel better at 65 RPM than 80? My moderately arthritic knees would say the exact opposite.

This cadence stuff is complicated business.

 

[mschwett]

My cadence usually averages about 64-67. I adjust the gears and the assist to maintain a consistent cadence. You people spinning around at 75-80 must have better knees than I do. I don't want to overuse my hinges, because I have a theory that like all mechanisms, we only get a certain number of movements (opening and closing of the knee joint) before we wear them out. Just seems frantic at that rate, though I might spin like that if I'm trying to really book it.

not that simple though - there is an amount of force on the joint beyond which damage or strain will be far more likely to occur. if keeping the cadence up keeps you away from that threshold, while still generating the same power, you’ll get more knee mileage!

if i can do 100 reps with a 10 pound weight, it doesn’t mean i can do 2 reps with a 500 pound weight, even given the same amount of time…. but both represent the same amount of “work”

 

[fooferdoggie]

I can do 90 or more on my trek but on our tandem it gets all choppy if we go above 90. thats a pain because we ride in the 13t cog when on the flats but when we have a tiny downhill or are feeling good the next cog 11t we are only at 70 rpms unless we get to around 21mph and we cant do that on our own.

 

[ChezCheese:)]

Fascinating! Theories about service life aside, are you saying that your knees feel better at 65 RPM than 80? My moderately arthritic knees would say the exact opposite.

This cadence stuff is complicated business.

Yes, they definitely feel better at the slower rpms than higher. And I'm not putting any great strain on them.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Yes, they definitely feel better at the slower rpms than higher. And I'm not putting any great strain on them.

Knee extension could be part of the difference. For complicated reasons involving some peripheral neuropathy, best if I stop with both feet touching at least a little. That leaves my knees about 5° short of ideal max extension while pedaling. Might tolerate slower cadences otherwise.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

You people spinning around at 75-80 must have better knees than I do.

On the contrary! High cadence is the way to save your knees as you stress your knees less there.
No experience with the body joints though. A friend who rides my Lovelec e-bike tells me he "has no hip joints" due to a road accident and he is forced to pedal at very low cadence. I really don't know.

 

[Roamers]

My cadence usually averages about 64-67. I adjust the gears and the assist to maintain a consistent cadence. You people spinning around at 75-80 must have better knees than I do.

When my wife comments on knees getting sore, I remind her to increase cadence. She normally does 75ish, unconsciously decreases to 60s, when reminded picks up to 80.

 

[PSm]

When my wife comments on knees getting sore, I remind her to increase cadence. She normally does 75ish, unconsciously decreases to 60s, when reminded picks up to 80.

Don’t know about others, but for me switching between higher cadence sitting down & lower cadence standing up, reduces my knee soreness and chance of leg cramps.

Or at least, it might allow me to keep riding and climbing hills, even if in a bit of pain.

 

[Roamers]

lower cadence standing up,

Its been 60 pounds since I tortured a bike by standing while pedaling. One of my favorite rides 30 years ago was a stretch of rolling country road with about a dozen rolls. Roll downhill, drop 2 gears and spin up the hill at 150 rpm, when pace dropped to about 90, up on the pegs and muscle the rest of the way at 60 or so. Rinse and repeat.

Now I full assist up hills on my butt.

 

[ChezCheese:)]

So when you all say increase cadence, is it because you think I'm pushing the pedals harder but at a slower pace? I am not. There is no strain on my knees or leg muscles. I read or saw a YouTube somewhere that there are people who naturally pedal at a fast spin, and other people who naturally pedal at a more leisurely spin. I must be in the latter group.

 

[Avg_Joe]

Riding my Specialized Vado 3.0 since June '22 (+1700mi), Eco mode set at 10%-25%, spend 98% of a typical 14-15mi ride in Eco, average speed is 13mph, my cadence average is 67rpm. This involves a lot of stop and go (suburban area, stop signs), and incessant small grades. @ChezCheese:) I'm with ya!

My 2 longest rides were on mostly flat bike trails with minimal stops. Those rides netted 73 and 76rpm.

I have tried upping my cadence to maintain 80ish rpm, however I found that kills my lower back and prevents me from riding for 1-2 days.

So I am content with putting the power down vs flailing.

These threads always make me feel as if I'm doing something wrong when comparing to others. I finally accepted what works for me is completely fine, esp since it is so enjoyable!

 

[DaveMatthews]

Nobody's doing anything wrong.
We all have different tools, needs, desires, and styles.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

So when you all say increase cadence, is it because you think I'm pushing the pedals harder but at a slower pace? I am not. There is no strain on my knees or leg muscles. I read or saw a YouTube somewhere that there are people who naturally pedal at a fast spin, and other people who naturally pedal at a more leisurely spin. I must be in the latter group.

To @ChezCheese:) and @Avg_Joe : No right or wrong way here, just interested in what cadences our ebikers choose to ride and why.

Recently talked to a friend about cadence. He's an avid lifelong cyclist, now an ebiker, who pedals at 60ish RPM no matter what. He has many centuries under his belt, many day-long mountain rides in the Sierra Nevada, and has done many long group rides all over the world — mostly on unmotorized road bikes.

He says he usually brings up the rear on group rides, but 60ish is where he's happy, and 60ish is what he rides. Going to an ebike (a nice Giant mid-drive) has had no effect on his cadence. To my knowledge, his knees aren't a factor.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Yesterday, Friday, took a slow, flattish 8-mile ride with my wife — mostly through the 1.6 mile long Carlsbad State Beach campground, which was filling up for the weekend. Average moving speed was 9 mph, with many stops to ogle scenery, and many slow-downs to get around meandering pedestrians and parking RVs. A few short uphills, mostly at the end.

Here's my cadence for the last 6.0 miles, PAS 1/9 the whole time. Despite the unusually slow speed and all the distractions, I still gravitated to 80ish RPM when I could.

Ditto when I lap this same campground when its empty. Stay close to the 15 mph speed limit in that case and spin 80ish RPM pretty consistently without thinking about it. For me, 80ish RPM is just baked in at this point.

 

[Kayakguy]

At 85 yo, and about 160 lbs, riding an Ariel Rider C class (step thru) w/mid-motor, I determined my cadence by cycling at a steady "fast" (seemed to me) cadence for one minute, which worked out to 70 rpm. I used to do faster (but without measuring) on my acoustic which I rode to work--a fairly short commute but with steep hills at each end. Anyhow, I internalized this 70 rpm cadence so I don't have to rely on instrumentation to maintain it. To stay steady at 70, I use PAS levels (1or 2 out of 5, 95% of the time) and the bike's gears (7 speed Shimano Nexus IGH). When I was a kid riding a one-speed, I stood on the pedals often, but no more of that for this old guy. Since I need feet on the ground when I stop, I don't get the ideal amount of leg extension, and I find that hard on knees. Present bike is too tall to leave room for a dropper post (and I am relatively short), so I plan on one for my next bike , which I hope will be better suited to my riding. I think this is not the official reason for a dropper, but it seems I did see a post recently by someone using one in the manner I'm proposing. I should mention that I find this cadence excellent for cardio, and it makes the ebike the very best exercise that I can possibly do.

I'd be curious if anyone else uses a dropper post this way.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I'd be curious if anyone else uses a dropper post this way.

Yes, that's a very proper use of a dropper seat-post for senior riders. Several "SUV e-bikes" are equipped with the dropper for the rider's comfort. I happened to have a dropper on two e-bikes, and dropping the seat on stopping was very comfortable. David Berry, a former Forum user was doing that on his R&M Homage, too.

 

[procreator]

Yesterday, Friday, took a slow, flattish 8-mile ride with my wife — mostly through the 1.6 mile long Carlsbad State Beach campground, which was filling up for the weekend. Average moving speed was 9 mph, with many stops to ogle scenery, and many slow-downs to get around meandering pedestrians and parking RVs. A few short uphills, mostly at the end.
View attachment 148383
Here's my cadence for the last 6.0 miles, PAS 1/9 the whole time. Despite the unusually slow speed and all the distractions, I still gravitated to 80ish RPM when I could.

Ditto when I lap this same campground when its empty. Stay close to the 15 mph speed limit in that case and spin 80ish RPM pretty consistently without thinking about it. For me, 80ish RPM is just baked in at this point.

Jeremy,

What did you use to collect the data?

Thanks

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Jeremy,

What did you use to collect the data?

Thanks

This cheap Bluetooth sensor plus the RideWithGPS app for Android.

The free version of the app might monitor/record cadence, but I'm not sure. With the highest subcription level, I can add a cadence field to the ride-in-progress display and watch my cadence on the phone in real time while recording cadence the whole time.

Really like the app overall. With the wrong "handlebar mode" settings, the app can kill my Samsung Note20 battery in under 15 miles, but battery usage is tolerable now.