Battery safety education - Only you can prevent battery fires!

[tomjasz]

Should? Sure but the reality is very different. SO we need to follow and suggest those new to eBikes step back and follow the rules as PatriciaK started amassing.

Would you like to have rely on your downstairs neighbor to dutifully unplug and manage their ebike battery to prevent fires?

No I wouldn't but millions do.

 

[AvalancheRun]

Should? Sure but the reality is very different. SO we need to follow and suggest those new to eBikes step back and follow the rules as PatriciaK started amassing.

Tom, you're twisting my words. Please re-read the posts because I'm not going to defend points that I never made.

I absolutely never said anywhere that PatriciaK's advice should not be followed. You can even see that I liked the post, because I agree.

I am talking about about safety precautions that should be built into future ebikes that are already a part of every single electric vehicle sold in the US.

 

[tomjasz]

Tom, you're twisting my words. Please re-read the posts because I'm not going to defend points that I never made.

I absolutely never said anywhere that PatriciaK's advice should not be followed. You can even see that I liked the post, because I agree.

I am talking about about safety precautions that should be built into future ebikes that are already a part of every single electric vehicle sold in the US.

Sorry I keep getting stuck on should, when the awful reality is the industry, or rather China is not held liable for the crap being pumped out. So for now the reality is thousands of marginal batteries in the hands of n00bs devoid of any knowledge when it comes to managing battery packs.

All good.

 

[Dorkyman]

A properly designed cell/battery pack will allow a charger, even a misbehaving charger, to be plugged in indefinitely. This would be cells made by reputable companies like Panasonic, LG, Sony, and such. Hopefully the upcoming UL certification requirements will ensure that this is so. The flip side of this claim is that one NEVER buys a no-name cell from one of the dozens of Chinese junk manufacturers, who know they don't have any liability from a fire that starts halfway around the world from the factory.

With safe cells, the only fire dangers would come from physical damage or water immersion.

 

[tomjasz]

A properly designed cell/battery pack

Sadly the sub $2000 market and even costlier eBikes have battery packs with all sorts of building shortcuts.
The shop I did support for purchased batteries built to our specifications. The purchaser resold the pack on eBay. For whatever reason the pack failed on ignited. The Chinese builder was untouchable. Our insurance paid the $50,000 claim.

It seems no one has the gonads to cry foul and stop these Chinese companies from DUMPING s*it batteries ion the unsuspecting budget eBike buyers.

 

[tomjasz]

With safe cells, the only fire dangers would come from physical damage or water immersion.

We know of three fires with "safe cells" from a major manufacturer. here on EBR. Due to non discloser agreements we'll never know the details. Don't kid yourself ANY battery pack can be a disaster if improperly managed.

 

[PCeBiker]

Don't kid yourself ANY battery pack can be a disaster if improperly managed.

I manage my batteries myself.
I'm charging right now,..

It's switched to constant voltage now.

I'm going to leave it plugged in while I sleep tonight.
That'll balance my cells.
I'll see zeros for Amps and Watts by morning.

I don't charge to full capacity.

 

[mschwett]

Hi Everyone, new hear so trying to learn as much as I can. I live in the Phoenix area and right now we are having some 110 to 115 degree weather. I had contacted Magicycle on riding in these conditions as I do quite often, I love the heat. They were really great in their response in saying, and this is their comment, "are people still driving Tesla or other electric cars"? They also said the batteries are desighned similiar to the Tesla batteries in cars. And I also asked them about charging the batteries in my garage which can be quite warm. They said to allow the batteries to sit and rest for 3 to 4 hours before charging and like the electric cars where folks charge them in their hot garages, it was okay to charge the Magicycle battery in the garage where it is quite warm. Can I get your folks opinion on the charging of the batteries in a warm garage? I have thought of bringing them into the house but Magicycle reassured me it was okay to charge them in the garage. Give me your thoughts and thanks for reading this posts.
Ride On

i was just scrolling through this thread and noticed this absolutely asinine comment from magicycle.

without commenting on whether any particular e-bike is safe to ride in extreme heat (i’m sure most are) i’ll just point out that a tesla has an active liquid cooling system for the batteries, driven by the air conditioning compressor. anyone making that comparison in an effort to reassure people is grossly uninformed. teslas also actively pre-cool the battery prior to rapid charging, e.g. if you set your destination as a supercharger station.

 

[peterh_nz]

i’ll just point out that a tesla has an active liquid cooling system for the batteries, driven by the air conditioning compressor. anyone making that comparison in an effort to reassure people is grossly uninformed. teslas also actively pre-cool the battery prior to rapid charging

... and most other EV brands?

 

[mschwett]

... and most other EV brands?

exactly, the comparison between a $35k-$250k EV to an inexpensive e-bike is just silly.

 

[Art Deco]

exactly, the comparison between a $35k-$250k EV to an inexpensive e-bike is just silly.

Actually the comparison between the expensive EV and the cheapest ebike isn't really all that silly. Both can burn your whole house down ...

How much power is in the battery is what matters . I think of it as the difference between a bullet and a stick of dynamite...

 

[scrambler]

@PatriciaK you should update your first post with each additional relevant point, and eventually include the link to that very well made video

 

[tomjasz]

asinine comment from magicycle.

magicycle is nothing more than a shill taking advantage of EBR for free advertising and has always spewed BS. From his very first posts. Another crappy little factory direct eBike.

 

[PatriciaK]

@PatriciaK you should update your first post with each additrional relevant point, and eventually include the link to that very well made video

I didn't intend to actively admin the thread... Just started it because there didn't seem to be one devoted specifically to battery safety. I thought people could read the thread, visit any links provided, and use what made sense to them .

 

[scrambler]

 

[Chargeride]

A Tesla has the same cells as an ebike battery.
You just have to consider the amount of possible failure points, in a fossil car it would be a leak and an ignition source.

In an EV or ebike it could be a fault in the hundreds of bms/charger components, a breakdown of the battery internal insulation, which is a very large area in total.

Regardless of quality they are inherently unsafe, those 500 EVs that burned for a week in the transporter off the dutch coast last week were VWs, not cheap chinese cars.
I charge and store my batteries in a garden barbecue, if Im staying airbnb, I charge them in my van via an extension cable or if thats not possible inside a wood stove or fire grate.

It just isnt possible to check if any battery is nearing a failure point without disassembly.
Its very, very unlikely, but the resultant fire will burn your house down or your apartment block.

I guess what Im saying is I treat every battery as if its a cheap backstreet knockoff, the energy density and the self sustaining fire is too much risk to me.

A jokey image was posted of a Samsung note7 being charged over a bucket of water suspended by food wrap , I guess you could do that with a bike battery over a bath of water

 

[Stefan Mikes]

A Tesla has the same cells as an ebike battery.

Not necessarily. Tesla batteries are made of 21700 cells while most of e-bike ones contain the 18650 cells. Of course, the chemistry of both is the same.

Regardless of quality they are inherently unsafe, those 500 EVs that burned for a week in the transporter off the dutch coast last week were VWs, not cheap chinese cars.

The latest reports read the source of the fire was independent of the cars, external.

 

[Chargeride]

Not necessarily. Tesla batteries are made of 21700 cells while most of e-bike ones contain the 18650 cells. Of course, the chemistry of both is the same.



The latest reports read the source of the fire was independent of the cars, external.

They do now, but the most popular pack is the 18650 80kwh in the older models

 

[Chargeride]

Not necessarily. Tesla batteries are made of 21700 cells while most of e-bike ones contain the 18650 cells. Of course, the chemistry of both is the same.



The latest reports read the source of the fire was independent of the cars, external.

I was waiting for some actual facts, it seems unlikely a brand new EV would just burst into flames for no reason, unless there were heavy seas and it broke loose.

 

[Art Deco]

@Chargeride You and the insurance actuaries are both waiting on hard facts. Over 95% of batteries over here come from China , and the Chinese government isn't real big on facts. In the meantime, treat every big battery like it was a bomb is only reasonable .