Bafang Ultra "Smooth" tune by Mike at Frey

[Ed B]

There is a thermal sensor buried in the windings, and it IS designed to lower the power to the motor when it reaches a certain temperature.

To be of much more help on this, it would be important to know what you were using for a throttle setting during those 5 to 8 minutes preceding the slow down.

2 more points. 1st, you can easily monitor the load on the motor by simply keeping an eye on the watt meter. It's not hard to imagine the internal heat build up with a constant over 1000w draw for instance.....

2nd, on some bikes, if the throttle is engaged while you are pedaling, the throttle is more of an on/off switch than a throttle. To get the throttle actually modulating power/working as designed, you have to stop pedaling for a second, then engage the throttle.

Interesting. The first time I observed this behavior was on a hot day (about 85F/29.5c). The throttle seems to work independently of pedaling... i.e I don't have to pedal with the throttle but if I do pedal, I feel the bike accelerating until the pedals spin out (I run out of gears and am going fast enough where I cant apply much force on the pedals). And while pedaling I can modulate the throttle and feel the difference between 50% and 100%. However, after this problem comes up (after 5-8 mins) then the throttle has little effect.

But one thing that I just noticed is that the watt meter on the display only shows power from pedaling not throttle alone?

I'll try to observe the wattage on the display on the next ride. (Don't think it will be possible to get a picture of that due to the speeds at high wattage).

But bottom line, you believe that the observed behavior is normal in hot or warm conditions?

 

[AHicks]

Interesting. The first time I observed this behavior was on a hot day (about 85F/29.5c). The throttle seems to work independently of pedaling... i.e I don't have to pedal with the throttle but if I do pedal, I feel the bike accelerating until the pedals spin out (I run out of gears and am going fast enough where I cant apply much force on the pedals). And while pedaling I can modulate the throttle and feel the difference between 50% and 100%. However, after this problem comes up (after 5-8 mins) then the throttle has little effect.

But one thing that I just noticed is that the watt meter on the display only shows power from pedaling not throttle alone?

I'll try to observe the wattage on the display on the next ride. (Don't think it will be possible to get a picture of that due to the speeds at high wattage).

But bottom line, you believe that the observed behavior is normal in hot or warm conditions?

Without knowing more about it, it doesn't sound out of line to me.

I've had several Bafang displays now, and they all show wattage draw while pedaling or while operated by throttle. If the motor is getting power, it's showing on that meter. Speaking personally, that watt meter is what I use to determine PAS levels and what gear I'm in. It's the only way I can make sure I'm riding efficiently. Get the job done, but do it with settings that keep the watt usage to a minimum. I'm 300 lbs, and my Ultra spends most of it's time in a very hilly area (rolling coastal hills in all directions). Bike has a 19.5 ah battery, and running it down to 46 volts generally gets me 30 miles easily, and 35 if I'm trying a little harder. And no, it wouldn't do that right away. I probably had over 100 miles on it before things started making sense. I still challenge myself like this on everything I ride 7 years since getting my first e-bike. That's me though. -Al

 

[rivets]

Running into an issue with the Programming software disconnecting every time I attempt to make modifications to the Torque tab/setting.

I was able to successfully read/write parameters to the bike before but just now, once I connect to the bike to do the initial read, the moment I enter any new parameter to the fields (Specifically the Torque tab), it immediately disconnects. Tried different ports, rebooted, etc...

Any idea?

 

[Taylor57]

Running into an issue with the Programming software disconnecting every time I attempt to make modifications to the Torque tab/setting.

I was able to successfully read/write parameters to the bike before but just now, once I connect to the bike to do the initial read, the moment I enter any new parameter to the fields (Specifically the Torque tab), it immediately disconnects. Tried different ports, rebooted, etc...

Any idea?

Ask Giel

Bafang Programming - Learn how to improve your Bafang mid-drive ebike - Edrivenet

Learn how to improve your Bafang mid-drive ebike. Reprogramming your Bafang mid-drive system can improve the usability and performance of your ebike a lot.

edrivenet.com

 

[SWENBUM]

Running into an issue with the Programming software disconnecting every time I attempt to make modifications to the Torque tab/setting.

I was able to successfully read/write parameters to the bike before but just now, once I connect to the bike to do the initial read, the moment I enter any new parameter to the fields (Specifically the Torque tab), it immediately disconnects. Tried different ports, rebooted, etc...

Any idea?

I'm having the exact same issue. I just went through programming my new Luna Z1 and a test ride yesterday. I’d like to change some more settings on the throttle, but now once I connect to the motor and read flash for the first time, the read and write buttons grey out and I cannot write any new changes. I’ve tried a new download of the tool, different usb ports, and a different PC, the buttons still grey out after the first Read and I cannot write anything new.
I commented on Giel's article so we'll see if there's a reply.

Have you gotten yours to work again?

 

[SWENBUM]

Although according to this comment back in '21 Giel thinks the Ultra can't be programmed...?

Miguel​

JAN 24, 2021 / 5:58 PMREPLY
Hello Giel,
I bought the M620. The set up you explained is the same? Because that ones has a torque sensor instead of speed sensor.
Many thanks in advance.

• 
  
  

  Giel (Admin)​

  JAN 24, 2021 / 6:34 PMREPLY
  Hi,
  The setup explained isn’t for the Bafang M620. If it has a torque sensor, the settings will be different. I don’t know for sure if it can even be reprogrammed. I suspect that it can’t be reprogrammed in the same way as the BBS series can like explained in this post.

 

[AHicks]

Although according to this comment back in '21 Giel thinks the Ultra can't be programmed...?

Miguel​

JAN 24, 2021 / 5:58 PMREPLY
Hello Giel,
I bought the M620. The set up you explained is the same? Because that ones has a torque sensor instead of speed sensor.
Many thanks in advance.

• 
  
  

  Giel (Admin)​

  JAN 24, 2021 / 6:34 PMREPLY
  Hi,
  The setup explained isn’t for the Bafang M620. If it has a torque sensor, the settings will be different. I don’t know for sure if it can even be reprogrammed. I suspect that it can’t be reprogrammed in the same way as the BBS series can like explained in this post.

I haven't got a clue what you are running into with your programming issue, but I can assure you that the Uart based Ultra's CAN be reprogrammed.

 

[rtp]

Although according to this comment back in '21 Giel thinks the Ultra can't be programmed...?

Miguel​

JAN 24, 2021 / 5:58 PMREPLY
Hello Giel,
I bought the M620. The set up you explained is the same? Because that ones has a torque sensor instead of speed sensor.
Many thanks in advance.

• 
  
  

  Giel (Admin)​

  JAN 24, 2021 / 6:34 PMREPLY
  Hi,
  The setup explained isn’t for the Bafang M620. If it has a torque sensor, the settings will be different. I don’t know for sure if it can even be reprogrammed. I suspect that it can’t be reprogrammed in the same way as the BBS series can like explained in this post.

The UART Ultras/M620s can be programmed/configured much like the other Bafang motors - there may be a different binary which basically adds another tab for 'torque' in the app UI.
Try this:

52V Programming for Bafang Ultra M620 Motor | Biktrix Help Center

By proceeding with the following you are acknowledging that you are following these instructions carefully and in full. Biktrix is not liable for any changes being made resulting in corruption of the motor controller. Warranty may be void if you program your motor yourself. Check with a Biktrix...

support.biktrix.com

 

[SWENBUM]

The UART Ultras/M620s can be programmed/configured much like the other Bafang motors - there may be a different binary which basically adds another tab for 'torque' in the app UI.
Try this:

52V Programming for Bafang Ultra M620 Motor | Biktrix Help Center

By proceeding with the following you are acknowledging that you are following these instructions carefully and in full. Biktrix is not liable for any changes being made resulting in corruption of the motor controller. Warranty may be void if you program your motor yourself. Check with a Biktrix...

support.biktrix.com

Thanks guys. I had just gotten the cable from Luna last week so I asked them as well. They suggested the cable may be bad. At least it lasted through loading a full tune before it failed, haha.

 

[cl33]

Question: There are two diff. DPC-18 Version in the wild. One with and one without Eco/Sport Mode. I had a Display DPC-18 with Eco/Sport and a special firmware from Bafang for the Swiss market (the display did not allow changes to wheel size and max. speed, also was the light always ON according to local law and the controller was also locked).

So I purchased a free programmable controller and a new DPC-18. But the new Display has no Eco/Sport - only assist levels from 0-9 instead of Eco 0-5 and Sport from 0-5.

Does anyone know if these two Displays are the "same"? Do you think that

Eco:
Assit0 - lvl 0 - no assist
Assit1 - lvl 1
Assit2 - lvl 2
Assit3 - lvl 4
Assit4 - lvl 5

Sport:
Assit0 - lvl 0 - no assist
Assit5 - lvl 1
Assit6 - lvl 2
Assit7 - lvl 3
Assit8 - lvl 4
Assit9 - lvl 5

are 0-9 for the DPC-18 without Eco/Sport? Or do I need another DPC-18?

 

[AHicks]

Eco = 1,3,5,7 & 9
Sport = 2,4,6,8 & 9

I wouldn't worry about it too much. The Ultra is such a torque monster 5 PAS levels work just fine. Suggest you try it and see how that works out for you. Mine is generally ridden in PAS 1, with 2 and even 3 used only in the biggest hills....

I did set PAS 0 up for a very small amount of power, but it's just rarely used. Handy with just a hint of power when in mixed traffic on a busy multi use path or similar for instance. Had no use for the no power setting....

Have you tried the Frey "Smooth" tune yet? If not, really can't recommend it enough - even if you feel you need to make a few mod's to suit your purposes. Excellent place to start from....

 

[cl33]

Eco = 1,3,5,7 & 9
Sport = 2,4,6,8 & 9

I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Thank you very much

I compared the FREY stock settings from my controller (have a AM1000HT) and settings from here. I changed some values. The first rides where ok for me. I use the bike 99% on the street for work.
I read here that you should set the "Base Voltage". The lowest was 757mV and the highest I read was 1177mV, so I set it to 967mV - is that not to high?

My current settings:

 

[AHicks]

I'll be honest, since going with the "Smooth" tune and riding that for a bit, I've stopped thinking about a lot of this. I do know that the earlier (BAFANG OEM)"torque" settings resulted in torque sensing that was pretty much turned off. My riding impressions confirmed that. After installing the "Smooth" tune, I am continually impressed by the overall "finesse" of this programming. Torque sensing not only very responsive, it works over a wide range of pressures. If the bike is in PAS 2 for instance, it's easy to see anything from less than 100w going to the motor, all the way up to something like 400w if I'm remembering right. That makes the Ultra much more forgiving to ride if you don't feel like being right on top of it - more of a brain dead cruiser?

My "Smooth" setting do vary from what you are showing, all across the board. Better or worse I have no idea. My base voltage (as shown in my notes) is still the default -0-, which could be wrong (not verified).

So the Smooth torque page would be what I would compare to your existing settings.

On the throttle handle page, I have my start and end voltage set at 10 (1.0v) and 40 (4.0v) for max throttle resolution.

The rest looks pretty close to what you have shown.

 

[Imagineaudio]

Anyone notice any cutting out when using throttle and it hits 30amps? Using an eggrider and smooth tune as posted

 

[AHicks]

Anyone notice any cutting out when using throttle and it hits 30amps? Using an eggrider and smooth tune as posted

I'm at a loss trying to figure out why you would not expect to notice something happening when the motor hit the max amp setting? Or maybe just not following your question well enough?

 

[Taylor57]

I'm at a loss trying to figure out why you would not expect to notice something happening when the motor hit the max amp setting? Or maybe just not following your question well enough?

Your probably just getting old Al

 

[Imagineaudio]

Well

I'm at a loss trying to figure out why you would not expect to notice something happening when the motor hit the max amp setting? Or maybe just not following your question well enough?

Well, on the stock settings you can goose the throttle and it just continues to accelerate until you are at the limit for gearing and motor RPM. Switching to an eggrider with smooth tune with no adjustments, power cuts out while accelerating on throttle sometime after hitting 30 amps regardless of speed. Definitely not the behavior you'd expect at, say, 19mph... would expect it to just limit current to 30 amps and then current to drop as motor efficiency increases.

Don't know if it's a smooth tune or eggrider thing since I changed both at the same time. But it is happening for me with throttle settings either at Speed or Current.

Will experiment this week, but curious if anyone else has had this behavior.

 

[AHicks]

Your probably just getting old Al

Learning there's a LOT of truth to that! That's what's left me wondering about understanding what this question is about. Am I following it the way I should be?

 

[AHicks]

Well

Well, on the stock settings you can goose the throttle and it just continues to accelerate until you are at the limit for gearing and motor RPM. Switching to an eggrider with smooth tune with no adjustments, power cuts out while accelerating on throttle sometime after hitting 30 amps regardless of speed. Definitely not the behavior you'd expect at, say, 19mph... would expect it to just limit current to 30 amps and then current to drop as motor efficiency increases.

Don't know if it's a smooth tune or eggrider thing since I changed both at the same time. But it is happening for me with throttle settings either at Speed or Current.

Will experiment this week, but curious if anyone else has had this behavior.

If the bike were working hard enough (climbing a steep enough hill for instance) to pull 30a using the stock settings, it should/would react the same using egg rider/smooth or any other settings at the 30a max. That's sort of a hardware limitation built in to protect the controller. Yes it's adjustable on the UART versions, but you're playing with fire. In addition to that 30a controller limitation, there's also a thermal sensor in the motor windings. If the motor is pulling big amps like that too long, that thermal sensor SHOULD slow the motor trying to protect itself. Point being, I doubt seriously that the motor is intended to pull 30a continuous. By design, the motor is buried within that case and cannot dissipate heat quickly enough for that kind of performance. Pulling 30a continuous is actually where the DD hub motors start making much more sense with their superior ability to dissipate heat.

 

[Imagineaudio]

I'm sorry, I don't understand why this is a confusing question. If you buy an m620 motor, install it, and then ride on throttle, it will spike at 30 amps and then taper off until it approaches the speed at which that particular throttle position corresponds to.

Now that I've installed an eggrider and copied the smooth settings, when I ride on throttle (throttle in default speed mode) it will spike at 30 amps just as it does with the stock settings and display, but then the motor cuts out for a few seconds. In current mode, it happens when giving it full open throttle which corresponds to 100% current limit AKA 30 amp draw. My theory is that the stock display and controller settings may let spikes slightly over 30 amps through (or the programing limits it to something like 27 amps so just brief spikes hit 30amps). Seems no one else in this thread has experienced this...

In this example the motor is not working hard, just flat riding at low speeds, cool temperatures and not continuously trying to pull 30 amps. Really just pretty mellow riding.