Bafang Ultra "Smooth" tune by Mike at Frey

RTP
Thanks for the info,
I guess that leaves me with 2 options,
Buy a Bafang 750w configuration/programmable bike that would fit my spec's and or,
buy all the required parts to have a programmable 750w motor + controller + display + wiring harness etc.
Either way I am looking at $1000 - $1500 funds being spent.

I knew that this was going to cost me out of my rat hole funds savings.........LOL
Tia,
Don
We're getting off topic here, but briefly the 750w motor isn't going to fit your Ultra powered bike's frame. I don't know what to believe for sure at this point, but I THINK the Bafang BBSxx series motors are still being sold with the programmable UART based controllers (the ones your cable WILL fit!). You would want to confirm that with the bike seller. The 750w is known as a BBS02, and the more powerful version, rated the same as the Ultra (1000w+), is known as a BBSHD. Upside is that the BBSXX series run quieter than the Ultra. Downside is no torque sensing. BBSHD is bullet proof, has made a LOT of friends in the performance crowd....
 
Update 2:

My ride with Ray the other day was mainly very plain as he doesn't like to get jiggy anymore. Did my first ride with the latest tune and hit the more tech sections of the hood. For these sections modes 1/2 are key because they are what I consider to be tight technical terrain consisting of roots, rocks and tight turns and transitions. Quite frankly I thought I was done for the most part with this type of terrain but the Z1 is a very confidence inspiring bike and I have found that if I am willing to commit to a feature that has foiled me in the past on my DIY XC oriented bikes it will support my effort with pretty good chances of success. Knock on wood.

The previous tune that was cutting out at low speed at unfortunately crux points as I said is gone now. Another aspect that was perhaps part of that was that I had the power set to cut off immediately with 0 overrun and sometimes it was like putting the brakes on to just stop pedaling for say a matter of crank timing to keep from pedal strikes. There is a feature that I believe Bosch has that allows for a bit of overrun in a high torque situation and now this tune does just that I am finding. Not a huge amount but a slight bit that allows for a bit of "freewheeling" instead of a stall if that makes sense. Thing is you have to be ready for it and use it to your advantage which didn't take but one ride to get used to. Otherwise at different speeds it really isn't a factor but does aid a bit in shifting after letting off to do so.

OK, update on my programming progress to date. I had mentioned that my friend Ray brought his bike by a few weeks ago and I put the tune I had going at that time on to replace the stock tune from Luna that came with the Z1. I was still experiencing some cut out at low speed that could be overcome by a slight blip of the throttle but was a PITA frankly. Well Ray, who is in his 70's, had a stall at a bad moment and ended up on his side so he wanted no more of that.

Inspired by this I set out to get rid of the glitch by revisiting all the info I had bookmarked and going line by line down my reads. As usual I didn't really make much of a record of what I did, ADD I'm afraid, but it involved plugging and unplugging, test riding etc.. I even downloaded the Frey Smooth Tune in full again just to revisit it but it didn't float my boat any more than it did when I first tried it. I did re-read all the salient points though and in combination with the Biktrix ones I think I now have a much better knowledge of how it all fits together? But don't ask me what ha ha ha.

The continuous get feature I found out I missed the first time around as it is described in the Frey tune area. However in the end it really doesn't mean alot other than for setting the base value which seems to be pretty consistent and the key figure I think for a 200 lbish rider is like 750. I have mine set at that and it feels just about right however Ray is like 25lbs. lighter than me so I set his to 740. Anyway we went for a nice 12 mile loop consisting of sun, sand and different gravel grades with ups downs and arounds and both of us came back satisfied with our results. No more low speed cutout, consistent torque ramping, good power with no buffering in all 5 modes and smooth throttle response from a standstill and while riding.

As far as I am concerned, as well as Ray is, that we will stick with this tune now unless something shows up that didn't today because it works just as we want. More psi on the pedals equals more power from the motor. At speed keeping a consistent pressure on the pedals nets a consistent speed with no wobbling. Modes 1/2 have decent power but not too much. No run on at all but not a super abrupt stop after letting off either. So really happy with the UART programming experience overall but it had its moments like getting to a windows computer at the start.
 
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Got it to work. Installed smooth tune with some frood tune modifications, overall feels good to me just need to put some more miles on it. My next concern is my drive train, would like to shift at higher power. Running 10- 11x48 AdventX w/kmc e10 chain which seems tView attachment 115234o not handle high power shifting as well when it was a 9 speed. Saw a guy using a 11 speed chain on this drive or possibly upgrading to different cassette .
FYI on the power shifting problem , adjusted top jockey wheel up with B screw and gives better shifting under load. Considering a aluminum Top jockey wheel with sealed bearings for less flexing.
 
Update 2:

My ride with Ray the other day was mainly very plain as he doesn't like to get jiggy anymore. Did my first ride with the latest tune and hit the more tech sections of the hood. For these sections modes 1/2 are key because they are what I consider to be tight technical terrain consisting of roots, rocks and tight turns and transitions. Quite frankly I thought I was done for the most part with this type of terrain but the Z1 is a very confidence inspiring bike and I have found that if I am willing to commit to a feature that has foiled me in the past on my DIY XC oriented bikes it will support my effort with pretty good chances of success. Knock on wood.

The previous tune that was cutting out at low speed at unfortunately crux points as I said is gone now. Another aspect that was perhaps part of that was that I had the power set to cut off immediately with 0 overrun and sometimes it was like putting the brakes on to just stop pedaling for say a matter of crank timing to keep from pedal strikes. There is a feature that I believe Bosch has that allows for a bit of overrun in a high torque situation and now this tune does just that I am finding. Not a huge amount but a slight bit that allows for a bit of "freewheeling" instead of a stall if that makes sense. Thing is you have to be ready for it and use it to your advantage which didn't take but one ride to get used to. Otherwise at different speeds it really isn't a factor but does aid a bit in shifting after letting off to do so.

OK, update on my programming progress to date. I had mentioned that my friend Ray brought his bike by a few weeks ago and I put the tune I had going at that time on to replace the stock tune from Luna that came with the Z1. I was still experiencing some cut out at low speed that could be overcome by a slight blip of the throttle but was a PITA frankly. Well Ray, who is in his 70's, had a stall at a bad moment and ended up on his side so he wanted no more of that.

Inspired by this I set out to get rid of the glitch by revisiting all the info I had bookmarked and going line by line down my reads. As usual I didn't really make much of a record of what I did, ADD I'm afraid, but it involved plugging and unplugging, test riding etc.. I even downloaded the Frey Smooth Tune in full again just to revisit it but it didn't float my boat any more than it did when I first tried it. I did re-read all the salient points though and in combination with the Biktrix ones I think I now have a much better knowledge of how it all fits together? But don't ask me what ha ha ha.

The continuous get feature I found out I missed the first time around as it is described in the Frey tune area. However in the end it really doesn't mean alot other than for setting the base value which seems to be pretty consistent and the key figure I think for a 200 lbish rider is like 750. I have mine set at that and it feels just about right however Ray is like 25lbs. lighter than me so I set his to 740. Anyway we went for a nice 12 mile loop consisting of sun, sand and different gravel grades with ups downs and arounds and both of us came back satisfied with our results. No more low speed cutout, consistent torque ramping, good power with no buffering in all 5 modes and smooth throttle response from a standstill and while riding.

As far as I am concerned, as well as Ray is, that we will stick with this tune now unless something shows up that didn't today because it works just as we want. More psi on the pedals equals more power from the motor. At speed keeping a consistent pressure on the pedals nets a consistent speed with no wobbling. Modes 1/2 have decent power but not too much. No run on at all but not a super abrupt stop after letting off either. So really happy with the UART programming experience overall but it had its moments like getting to a windows computer at the start.
One thing that I have done that gave some interesting feedback on motor was connecting controler to the Speeed phone app and phone on a handlebar mount. Riding with app connected gives a watt numerical value which was insightful . Will post my tune after more time with it. Thanks for all your efforts with this.
 
One thing that I have done that gave some interesting feedback on motor was connecting controler to the Speeed phone app and phone on a handlebar mount. Riding with app connected gives a watt numerical value which was insightful . Will post my tune after more time with it. Thanks for all your efforts with this.
Many of the higher end displays do this.
Knowing Watts or Amps is useful for understanding watts going on 🙃
 
FYI on the power shifting problem , adjusted top jockey wheel up with B screw and gives better shifting under load. Considering a aluminum Top jockey wheel with sealed bearings for less flexing.
I agree with this that it is really important to have the B tension screw/jockey wheel in the proper relation to the cassette and checked on both ends of the shift spectrum. Plenty of YOuTube vids on how to accomplish this. However what really rings true with the above is the mention of flexing and how to alleviate that? The one thing that bugs me with the SRAM GX derailleur I have is how flexy it is and I feel like it could be much less so for more accurate shifting. Especially in the middle of the cassette where it has the least amount of side load on it where most times I have to double click to get a down shift which skips the gear I really want to be in unless I click back up one.

For sure there is an art to shifting any bike, e or otherwise, and it is important for every rider to spend some time to get to know what the best method is for their bike and riding style. There are many different levels of components to consider as well as "speeds" described as 6,7,8,9 etc.. Expensive and the most gears isn't always going to provide the best shifting/longest lifespan. A friend that has an eBike shop was telling me about an Asian 11spd system that he has been using that has an 11-50t cassette, derailleur and chain that is inexpensive and quite durable. It is 1:1 ratio, so I can continue to use grip shift which I prefer, so when the 12spd SRAM stuff I have needs replacing I may go that way if in fact it is as he says.

Although it seems to be popular to think that because of the e assist you should need less "speeds" I equate riding these small h.p. motor bikes like I used to bitd on my 125 two strokes where you shifted alot to keep in the power band. My motor especially rewards a higher cadence I have found so I shift quite frequently and am not at all bothered by that aspect to get the performance I want out of the bike.
 
I agree with this that it is really important to have the B tension screw/jockey wheel in the proper relation to the cassette and checked on both ends of the shift spectrum. Plenty of YOuTube vids on how to accomplish this. However what really rings true with the above is the mention of flexing and how to alleviate that? The one thing that bugs me with the SRAM GX derailleur I have is how flexy it is and I feel like it could be much less so for more accurate shifting. Especially in the middle of the cassette where it has the least amount of side load on it where most times I have to double click to get a down shift which skips the gear I really want to be in unless I click back up one.

For sure there is an art to shifting any bike, e or otherwise, and it is important for every rider to spend some time to get to know what the best method is for their bike and riding style. There are many different levels of components to consider as well as "speeds" described as 6,7,8,9 etc.. Expensive and the most gears isn't always going to provide the best shifting/longest lifespan. A friend that has an eBike shop was telling me about an Asian 11spd system that he has been using that has an 11-50t cassette, derailleur and chain that is inexpensive and quite durable. It is 1:1 ratio, so I can continue to use grip shift which I prefer, so when the 12spd SRAM stuff I have needs replacing I may go that way if in fact it is as he says.

Although it seems to be popular to think that because of the e assist you should need less "speeds" I equate riding these small h.p. motor bikes like I used to bitd on my 125 two strokes where you shifted alot to keep in the power band. My motor especially rewards a higher cadence I have found so I shift quite frequently and am not at all bothered by that aspect to get the performance I want out of the bike.
I spend winter months in AZ with rocky and sandy areas with quick elevation changes and try to keep it honest by putting in as much to the pedals as I can so need to do a lot of shifting. Had a 11-36 9speed and put a 11-42 cassette on and found the medium cage not able to shift well enough so went to the 11-48 10 s longcage . I had put a aluminum Top jockey wheel on the 9s and it made a big Improvement over plastic wheel so that will be my next move. Another upgrade is finding a lighter alternative to stock iso spider and chain wheel in narrow wide.
 
Awhile ago, perhaps even on this very thread, a member alluded to the fact that gearing had a big effect on how the programming is set up. Personally I haven't made that connection because in general what I found right away is that an M620 rewards an active spin of the cranks. My setup is a 36t N/W on a Christini spider, which is lighter than stock, with the11/50 12spd cassette that came with the bike.

Bike came stock with a 40t front ring but I wanted to spend more time in the middle of the cassette thus the swap. Shifting really isn't that bad I just seem to be having a war with sticks this spring and my two chain issues, and the derailleur, were the result of them. I do know enough to stop immediately if I hear a stick in the spokes but they both happened that fast.....Bottom line is you have to have the range of gearing on your bike that you need for your terrain and physical ability. Good shifting comes with the right components and good technique.

But on the subject of programming my latest epiphany is after receiving the 48 and 52v 21700 cell batteries I have noticed that the programming that felt great using the stock battery as noted above doesn't feel as good now. It is like they put out enough more power in modes 1/2, that I purposely want to only allow a heavily torque assist biased with very little over run pedal feel, has gone up and I need to lower their values. For sure the new batteries have better power at lower voltage and provide the same if not more mileage although they are 120 and 60wh's less capacity respectively. The 52v will be getting the daily driver status however because it seems to be just that much better than the 48v hot off the charger which plays into my ride to the trails on the paved road uphill mode 5 get there as fast as possible routine.

Ray is going to buy my stock battery so his programming will stay consistent and I will change mine to suit the new batteries.
 
Awhile ago, perhaps even on this very thread, a member alluded to the fact that gearing had a big effect on how the programming is set up. Personally I haven't made that connection because in general what I found right away is that an M620 rewards an active spin of the cranks. My setup is a 36t N/W on a Christini spider, which is lighter than stock, with the11/50 12spd cassette that came with the bike.
For sure, that's plenty o' gears! 😉👍

The need for programming specific to certain gear ratios, comes in primarily at the extreme minimum & maximum ratios.

Drastically different end ratios will likely want different tuning, of the PAS percentiles & the Torque tab's Start\Full\Return\Min\Keep\Decay settings, especially if the gearing uses small (32 tooth) or large (≥48 tooth) chainrings.

Then to a lesser extent, consider that the m620's torque response levels are adjustable only within six Speed% ranges, as defined by the m620's motor controller: 0%, 20%, 40%, 60%, 80%, 100%.

Each of these spans has its own Start\Full\Return\Min\Keep\Decay\etc settings.

These separate spans exist so that you can get (for instance) full assist power from relatively little pedal force, up near top speed (when your cadence is high, making full pedal force impossible); while still getting more moderate & precisely nuanced pedal assist percentages, at lower speeds (where it's possible to apply way more than the sensor's maximum 60 Kg!).

So, if you have very few gear ratios to shift between, or spend a lot of time at a transition point between those ranges of speed, large differences in the settings for 20% & the settings for 40%, may produce a noticeable "wrong gear"/"wrong assist level" feeling, in certain gears, wherein the assist level is too low despite moderate speed & then mysteriously fine just a few MPH faster.

This is most noticeable at very low (single digit percentage) assist levels.

With 12 speeds, you may have no extreme jumps in gear ratio at moderate & higher speeds. So, "matching" the five transition points between the six Speed% ranges of Torque settings, to get Torque sensitivity appropriate for each Speed% range, would be a non-issue, because you've got twice as many gear ratios as you have Torque sensitivity levels!

Riders with drivetrains providing just 6 or 7 gear ratios, may find that getting the Start\Full\Return\Min\Keep\Decay settings for each Speed% range, to match up well with the gear ratios they're using at each of those speeds, is critical for getting relatively uniform or appropriate-feeling response to pedal force, across all speeds.

(Users who ride at very high cadence, or rarely use pedal assist modes capped at <20 percent power, may never notice the transition points at all.)

If you set the MaxCur% for Spd0, to 50...
& set the MaxCur% for Spd20, to 100...
& set the MaxCur% for Spd40, to 50...
& set the FullKg for all three ranges, to 1...
(& manage to get rolling without stripping anything...)
the transition points, between Spd0, Spd20, & Spd40, will definitely feel noticeable enough to pinpoint, then!? 😂
 
I'm pretty sure those refer to motor speed (RPM), not bike speed. My bike feels identical with the speed limit set to the max as it does when it's set to 20 MPH...until I hit 20 MPH obviously.
Clearly I could be mistaken, but I also have the impression those spd(xx) settings were motor rpm.
I wanted to make sure I wasn't crazy (about this), before stating this as a certainty, but I triple-checked, today, & it's true:

If your SpeedMeterModel setting in the Basic tab, is set to "External, Wheel Meter", & your SpeedLimited setting in the Pedal Assist tab, is set to "By Display's Command"...

Then whatever speed limit you set in your display, directly determines the transition points, between each of the Spd0\Spd20\Spd40\etc ranges & their Start\Full\Return\etc settings!

One dead giveaway that this is true:

Changing only the DPC18 display's Speed Limit setting, to 60 MPH, & then to 30 MPH, produces totally different assist levels at the same 10-to-12 MPH, in PAS 3, under light pedal force at low cadence!

With the limit set to 60 MPH, the torque sensitivity stays in one of the first couple ranges (Spd0 or Spd20); at 10 or 12 MPH, it's barely into Spd20 range, & my cadence will top out around 30 MPH, so I'd never be using any of the Spd60, 80, or 100 settings... Low cadence & light pedaling get less than 400 Watts of power, because the MinCur% of Spd0 & Spd20 are relatively low, & the FullKg is relatively high.

With the limit set to 30 MPH, the torque sensitivity hits each Spd range in half the time\MPH. Due to the Spd40 & Spd60 ranges being set for higher MinCur% & lower FullKg, lowering the display's speed limit from 60, to 30, means getting >550 Watts from the same light pedaling force, low cadence, & 10-to-12 MPH speed!

If I hadn't mentioned before, the 'Frood' tune I'm using, was optimized for my: preference for moderate pedal force & low cadence; 48V@21Ah battery; ≥250 pound rider; ≥80 pound bike; 27.5×2.8" Maxxis Rekon+ tires; 40-tooth front chainring; 11-speed, 42-tooth-to-11-tooth cassette; & a "45 MPH" speed limit, as set by DPC18 display.

If you're using an external speedo, & your Pedal Assist is set to get its speed limit from your display,
changing your speed limit will change all the Spd0\Spd20\Spd40\etc ranges, of your torque sensitivity settings!
 
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TLDR:

The MPH/KPH speed limit set by your display, affects the MPH/KPH speed at which each "Spd0", "Spd20", "Spd40" etc, range of torque sensitivity settings, will engage.​

 
That's pretty interesting. Might have to play with this soon. Curious how mine is set up and if it reacts the same way. If it does follow true, I like the idea of an easy way to mod your setup. -Al
 
I was shocked today when I read my Basic settings for the first time on my Frey AM 1000, I was riding around on PAS 1 thinking it was easy I can see why, it is surprising what the settings can be, I have no reason to suspect the previous owner had tweaked the settings although until you check you never know. All other settings were as per the stock settings posted by others. I have now set the Smooth settings and understandably I can see the difference.
 

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I was shocked today when I read my Basic settings for the first time on my Frey AM 1000, I was riding around on PAS 1 thinking it was easy I can see why, it is surprising what the settings can be, I have no reason to suspect the previous owner had tweaked the settings although until you check you never know. All other settings were as per the stock settings posted by others. I have now set the Smooth settings and understandably I can see the difference.
Beware that the version of Bafang Config Tool you're using in that screenshot, is not intended for use with Bafang g510\m620\Ultra motors, which have torque sensing!

For best results, you probably should use the Frey Config Tool, or a later version of the Bafang Config Tool, with a Torque tab full of additional settings, available.
 
Beware that the version of Bafang Config Tool you're using in that screenshot, is not intended for use with Bafang g510\m620\Ultra motors, which have torque sensing!

For best results, you probably should use the Frey Config Tool, or a later version of the Bafang Config Tool, with a Torque tab full of additional settings, available.
Thanks I did have 2 versions one with and one without the torque tab, initially I had problems getting the comms to work but now ok.
 
Thanks I did have 2 versions one with and one without the torque tab, initially I had problems getting the comms to work but now ok.
Yep, I did the same thing, had trouble getting the comms to work.
 
Guys
Do you have a link to these Frey Config Tool, or a later version of the Bafang Config Tool?
Thanks,
Don
 
I understand this thread deals with modifying the Bafang Ultra mid-motor. Are there also threads that discuss modifying the settings for a Bafang Hub motor (I have a new Sondors Fold XS with a Bafang 750W rear hub motor (RM G060.750D 07) producing 80 Nm of torque. The battery is 48V x 14Ah L-ion with Panasonic cells, and gearing is 7-speed Shimano 14x28T.

This setup delivers a top speed of 25 mph (more than enough for my needs), but could use more hill-climbing torque.
You WONT get any more torque it has what it has that is one of the drawbacks of a HUB motor.

You can not utilize the gears at the hill gets steeper SORRY

But you could convert it to a BBSHD and that would be a Major improvement
 
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