Bafang Ultra "Smooth" tune by Mike at Frey

[Surly]

I was gna tell you all abut the continuous get a while ago but thought better of adding another layer of complexity. When trying to ascertain the base voltage you need to track stand on the bike (stand on the pedals), just do it against a wall for balance.

Funny this got brought up now as i have been thinking of building a simple rolling road to explore this and to be able to fine tune a highly personalised setup dialed in for rider weight, power etc., as it's motor data i'm after the rolling road doesn't need to be 'smart' just has to allow me to run the bike under load (think Rays machine from EMBN but dumb)

I'll post my findings somewhere on the t'interwebz, i think it will help ultra users dial in the torque settings.

ETA If you ride always sat down sit down for cont. get.

 

[JRA]

I was gna tell you all abut the continuous get a while ago but thought better of adding another layer of complexity. When trying to ascertain the base voltage you need to track stand on the bike (stand on the pedals), just do it against a wall for balance.

Funny this got brought up now as i have been thinking of building a simple rolling road to explore this and to be able to fine tune a highly personalised setup dialed in for rider weight, power etc., as it's motor data i'm after the rolling road doesn't need to be 'smart' just has to allow me to run the bike under load (think Rays machine from EMBN but dumb)

I'll post my findings somewhere on the t'interwebz, i think it will help ultra users dial in the torque settings.

ETA If you ride always sat down sit down for cont. get.

So let me see if I have the above right? You could potentially hook up a bike to a resistance trainer and while it is plugged in to the computer you could ride/adjust/write basically on the fly? Now that is a concept I could get behind, as well as a better understanding of how all the variables relate.....

Thanks for the even better tip on the continuous get. Seems to me that it is the most important setting in there?

 

[Surly]

So let me see if I have the above right? You could potentially hook up a bike to a resistance trainer and while it is plugged in to the computer you could ride/adjust/write basically on the fly? Now that is a concept I could get behind, as well as a better understanding of how all the variables relate.....

Yeah thats pretty much the idea and to maybe utilise a pair of pedal power meters to measure the effort reduction

Thanks for the even better tip on the continuous get. Seems to me that it is the most important setting in there?

I think it's likely the key to true smooth tuning, everyones required effort is different therefore base voltages are different, so if you want a more bike like experience its in there or if you want more assist it's also in there.
.

One thing i've just realised.... i didn't check if an eggrider logs the base voltage on the ultra, if it does thats another rich source of data.

 

[Nvreloader]

Hey Guys
I just received my control cable and it DOES NOT FIT, the connection for the display.
Same number of pins, but a different shape.

Any Idea what connector is used on the display?
It is roughly the shape of a house in the end view, same number of pins.

Is there a name for this type of connector.

I have been looking thru Amazon, but no luck so far.
Your thoughts or suggestions.

Tia,
Don

 

[Gionnirocket]

Hey Guys
I just received my control cable and it DOES NOT FIT, the connection for the display.
Same number of pins, but a different shape.

Any Idea what connector is used on the display?
It is roughly the shape of a house in the end view, same number of pins.

Is there a name for this type of connector.

I have been looking thru Amazon, but no luck so far.
Your thoughts or suggestions.

Tia,
Don

I think that you may be s*it out of luck on programming the controller as I believe the 5 sided connector is the new Canbus communication protocol. Everyone in this thread is using the older UART protocol (round connector)

 

[AHicks]

Don, that connector is used only on the newest Ultra's that have been shipped with the CANbus communication protocol. Unlike the UART communication protocol the older motors use, that protocol has not been cracked yet. There is work in progress by some really smart programming gurus. Nobody has a date for when it might be cracked, or is even positive it will be.

If you can't adjust the wheel diameter using the display, you may have to just get used to the idea your speedo is off a little. -Al

 

[Nvreloader]

Thanks Guys
I'll contact Kyle and see if he can reset this display/controller,
he did unlock it before it was sent to me.

Tia,
Don

 

[ProphetZarquon]

I'm pretty sure those refer to motor speed (RPM), not bike speed. My bike feels identical with the speed limit set to the max as it does when it's set to 20 MPH...until I hit 20 MPH obviously.

Mine feels _vastly_ different at 10-to-20 MPH, with display set to 60 MPH limit, than it does set to 30.

Have you compared the same runs at low assist level, with limit set very high or low?
(Such differences are not nearly so noticeable at higher percentiles of assist.)

RPM would have made sense design-wise (not every implementation would have a wheel speed sensor!), so I really expected the Spd20 Spd40 etc divisions would only relate to motor RPM...

But simply altering my display's max speed limit setting by a large proportion, had a dramatic effect on the tuning.

I was very annoyed, as I had to go back & retune the pedal Torque response fields, for the display's new speed limit, after I lowered it...

Perhaps I should triple check; always possible I changed something else without realizing, or had it in the wrong gears, or had my wrong head on my shoulders?

Perhaps the most disturbing possibility of any of these... couldn't be more than one controller firmware revision? No... I'd think we'd have heard about that phenomena...

Maybe I'm just nuts. I'm gonna have to retest though, because I was NOT happy about having to retune just because I cut the speed limit in half!

 

[ProphetZarquon]

Thanks for the even better tip on the continuous get. Seems to me that it is the most important setting in there?

I was gna tell you all abut the continuous get a while ago but thought better of adding another layer of complexity. When trying to ascertain the base voltage you need to track stand on the bike (stand on the pedals), just do it against a wall for balance.

To be clear, the Base Voltage should be set with no force on the pedals.

Standing on it to get a peak force reading, & to gauge effort relative to a given reading, is an additional set of steps.

No pedal force or balancing on the bike is necessary, to find out the sensor's Base Voltage; it can be checked with nothing touching the bike but the "programming" cable.

Adding a few mV above the sensor's base reading, does help enormously to eliminate the frequency & severity of false starts, though. (As does increasing StartKg requirements, once the controller isn't interpreting 0 Kg as 12 Kg anymore. )

I just wanted to be clear that Base Voltage is NOT to be read from TqVoltate while putting any effort into the pedals.

Just click Continuous Get & see what range you see, without cranking at all; that's the Base Voltage.

(Adding a few mV above what you see, is not a bad idea.)

 

[ProphetZarquon]

I did go through the steps of clicking Continuous Get then applying force to the pedals while watching TqVoltate, to see when the sensor maxed out, but indeed, it's around 60Kg, & I weigh a lot more than that...

So, simply standing on the front pedal, or putting enough force to climb a step, is enough to top out the torque sensor long before I even work up a real effort.

Which means my torque sensing tops out at a very low effort level for me.

 

[ProphetZarquon]

Wanted:
Torque sensor with 0-to-120 Kg reporting range, for Bafang g510 motor!

(Anyone familiar enough with torque sensors to say how difficult this would be? Any alternatives already on the market?)

 

[jomanaz]

Checking to see if anyone would know why I am getting a com port error message. The cable does work with the Speeed phone app but not with the Bafang or the Frey configuration App. Have used com3 in the past but nothing will work now.

 

[DavidRvR]

Maybe your computer updated?

 

[jomanaz]

Maybe your computer updated?

Will check , thanks.

 

[theemartymac]

Will check , thanks.

With the cable plugged in, check windows update for optional drivers too. Sometimes they get overwritten during the major windows updates...

 

[jomanaz]

With the cable plugged in, check windows update for optional drivers too. Sometimes they get overwritten during the major windows updates...

Got it to work. Installed smooth tune with some frood tune modifications, overall feels good to me just need to put some more miles on it. My next concern is my drive train, would like to shift at higher power. Running 10- 11x48 AdventX w/kmc e10 chain which seems t

o not handle high power shifting as well when it was a 9 speed. Saw a guy using a 11 speed chain on this drive or possibly upgrading to different cassette .

 

[AHicks]

To be honest, I'm not sure I would have ever thought changes in the bike's speed limit might change the bike's tuning. NOT saying I don't think it's possible, just that I would never have connected the 2. So rather than just going the brain dead route and setting that value to max, would there be an advantage setting it to 25 or 30 mph?

I can say that the some of the tuning attributes do need to be ridden a while to be judged fairly. Some of them are pretty subtle. I don't really know how many miles I have on the "Smooth" tune at this point (3-400 maybe?) but I can say that the way I ride the bike now, is quite a bit different than the way I rode it prior to the change. Shifting pattern and PAS usage are both different. -Al

 

[rtp]

Hey Guys
I just received my control cable and it DOES NOT FIT, the connection for the display.
Same number of pins, but a different shape.

Any Idea what connector is used on the display?
It is roughly the shape of a house in the end view, same number of pins.

Is there a name for this type of connector.

I have been looking thru Amazon, but no luck so far.
Your thoughts or suggestions.

Tia,
Don

If the connector is triangle-shaped, you have a CANBUS motor - no current options for configuration/'programming' like is being discussed here at this point in time outside of a very limited set of CAN commands that have been decoded for e.g. wheel size and a very small # of other things, sending hex codes via a CAN analyzer, etc. Leave it as - nothing in this thread applies, unfortunately.

 

[jomanaz]

To be honest, I'm not sure I would have ever thought changes in the bike's speed limit might change the bike's tuning. NOT saying I don't think it's possible, just that I would never have connected the 2. So rather than just going the brain dead route and setting that value to max, would there be an advantage setting it to 25 or 30 mph?

I can say that the some of the tuning attributes do need to be ridden a while to be judged fairly. Some of them are pretty subtle. I don't really know how many miles I have on the "Smooth" tune at this point (3-400 maybe?) but I can say that the way I ride the bike now, is quite a bit different than the way I rode it prior to the change. Shifting pattern and PAS usage are both different. -Al

I would have to agree the interactions of the settings is complex thing. I will try some more settings over time but happy so far. Really like using 0 pas for a ultra low pas for riding with analog friends .

 

[Nvreloader]

If the connector is triangle-shaped, you have a CANBUS motor - no current options for configuration/'programming' like is being discussed here at this point in time outside of a very limited set of CAN commands that have been decoded for e.g. wheel size and a very small # of other things, sending hex codes via a CAN analyzer, etc. Leave it as - nothing in this thread applies, unfortunately.

RTP
Thanks for the info,
I guess that leaves me with 2 options,
Buy a Bafang 750w configuration/programmable bike that would fit my spec's and or,
buy all the required parts to have a programmable 750w motor + controller + display + wiring harness etc.
Either way I am looking at $1000 - $1500 funds being spent.

I knew that this was going to cost me out of my rat hole funds savings.........LOL
Tia,
Don