An Ebike that is as easy to pedal (when power is off) as a regular bike

[minigrrl]

I wonder if heart rate is a great proxy. I think a lot of the benefit, day after day, is just getting the heart rate up and keeping it there for extended time. For instance, if your HR is up the same amount with or without assist for the same amount of time, it seems all things are pretty close to the same. It could be like riding in different gears. Overall the distance is the same, but you sure can change the exertion amounts. Fickle-ness aside

Yeah agreed... Unfortunately I know for a fact (can compare on Garmin Connect) that my HR isn't up as high as I was getting it on my analog rides, because I have help on the hills, which is where it used to get into the higher zones. I'm a good 10 bpm lower both on average and the highest that I hit each ride. BUT, I'm out more often and for longer each time. See - this is how I trick myself...

Though I do know that what I'm doing with the eBike is good and maybe even better in some ways than the shorter, more vigourous rides. I also do know that it's good to get your HR up into those higher zones regularly. Just typing this is making me think I have to push harder at least once a week. I'm going to install my Vectors today also as I got the platforms delivered today that I can clip into them so I don't have to wear the horrible road shoes...

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Some e-bikes precisely report the rider's effort and give the figure of kcal actually burnt by the cyclist... Should be easy because any mid-motor is torque based. Strangely enough, very few manufacturers make such data available to the user (Specialized, and the most advanced Bosch displays are capable to do it).

Specialized e-bikes with TCU controller (all since 2020) provide a lot of useful information. Here, BLEvo app could extract actual (not estimated!) ride data and feed them to Strava. Normally, you get actual measured kcal just on TCD e-bike display.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Some e-bikes precisely report the rider's effort and give the figure of kcal actually burnt by the cyclist... Should be easy because any mid-motor is torque based. Strangely enough, very few manufacturers make such data available to the user (Specialized, and the most advanced Bosch displays are capable to do it).

View attachment 71125Specialized e-bikes with TCU controller (all since 2020) provide a lot of useful information. Here, BLEvo app could extract actual (not estimated!) ride data and feed them to Strava. Normally, you get actual measured kcal just on TCD e-bike display.

That's really interesting Stefan, I'd heard about this app but assumed it only worked on Specialized eMTBs, do you know if BLEvo will work with the Vado SL? Also I just changed my chainring from 44T down to 38T will that effect the the motor's sensors do you know? Or give the wrong data on Mission Control?

 

[minigrrl]

Some e-bikes precisely report the rider's effort and give the figure of kcal actually burnt by the cyclist... Should be easy because any mid-motor is torque based. Strangely enough, very few manufacturers make such data available to the user (Specialized, and the most advanced Bosch displays are capable to do it).

View attachment 71125Specialized e-bikes with TCU controller (all since 2020) provide a lot of useful information. Here, BLEvo app could extract actual (not estimated!) ride data and feed them to Strava. Normally, you get actual measured kcal just on TCD e-bike display.

Very cool! Super jealous... My next bike will definitely have the ability to measure the power I am putting in. Love that it gives you all the info about how much was you vs the bike. The battery info is sweet too.

I finally moved my power pedals onto my eBike and have some of the same metrics. At least I have a baseline to start from now...

 

[Stefan Mikes]

You seem to combine the benefits from using both power-pedals and Garmin. Brilliant!
(The weakness of my solution is it has to be a Specialized Turbo e-bike -- running BLEvo on my smartphone -- to get all that info to Strava. Cannot do it with my Giant or Lovelec).

 

[Dallant]

Very cool! Super jealous... My next bike will definitely have the ability to measure the power I am putting in. Love that it gives you all the info about how much was you vs the bike. The battery info is sweet too.

I finally moved my power pedals onto my eBike and have some of the same metrics. At least I have a baseline to start from now...

View attachment 71129

This is one of the reasons I want to switch from my Purion to the Kiox.
Hmm, I never heard of power pedals before.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

That's really interesting Stefan, I'd heard about this app but assumed it only worked on Specialized eMTBs, do you know if BLEvo will work with the Vado SL? Also I just changed my chainring from 44T down to 38T will that effect the the motor's sensors do you know? Or give the wrong data on Mission Control?

Ras, any Specialized Turbo e-bike equipped with TCU is both Mission Control and BLEvo compatible (but one app at a time). Specifically, Vado SL can use BLEvo (several Vado SL owners present in this Forum are delighted with the capability).

The chainring size doesn't affect the measurement at all! Let me explain why: In a mid-drive motor scheme, you don't drive the chainring directly with the cranks. Differently to a traditional e-bike, you are pedalling through the motor, and it is the internal gearing of the motor that actually drives the chainring. Therefore, the torque sensor measures your input at the cranks, not at the chainring.

Do a little experiment: Rotate the cranks backwards -- the chainring won't move.

This is one of the reasons I want to switch from my Purion to the Kiox.
Hmm, I never heard of power pedals before.

That's called "pedal power meters". These are used by competing cyclists to measure their effort and are very expensive. While, any mid-drive motor does such measurement to determine the torque resulting from the rider's input...

Kiox, or perhaps better Nyon. @Alaskan often shows his ride data including his leg power, and I think it is from Nyon.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Ras, any Specialized Turbo e-bike equipped with TCU is both Mission Control and BLEvo compatible (but one app at a time). Specifically, Vado SL can use BLEvo (several Vado SL owners present in this Forum are delighted with the capability).

The chainring size doesn't affect the measurement at all! Let me explain why: In a mid-drive motor scheme, you don't drive the chainring directly with the cranks. Differently to a traditional e-bike, you are pedalling through the motor, and it is the internal gearing of the motor that actually drives the chainring. Therefore, the torque sensor measures your input at the cranks, not at the chainring.

Do a little experiment: Rotate the cranks backwards -- the chainring won't move.


That's called "pedal power meters". These are used by competing cyclists to measure their effort and are very expensive. While, any mid-drive motor does such measurement to determine the torque resulting from the rider's input...

Kiox, or perhaps better Nyon. @Alaskan often shows his ride data including his leg power, and I think it is from Nyon.

Thanks for that. I don't have a TCU, think only the Vado Sl 5s come equipped with that. I'll check if I can just use BLevo on iPhone. I do intend in getting a decent Wahoo (roam) or garmin equiv but can't afford expense just yet. I use an app called Windy (maps) an offshoot of the Windy weather forecast app. The map routes and info looks similiar to Mapmyride software I've seen on here and for now, it does all I need, esp as I can use it when phone is out of range as happens a lot here - what got me immediately interested in your BLevo screen grab was the breakdown of bike motor v rider input to the ride. That info is fascinating.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Ras.... Don't confuse the TCU (Turbo Control Unit) with the TCD (Turbo Control Display). Your Vado SL has the TCU (the wireless-capable e-bike controller). That's why you can use Mission Control....

 

[Stefan Mikes]

P.S. BLEvo can feed the ride map & metrics only to Strava.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Ras.... Don't confuse the TCU (Turbo Control Unit) with the TCD (Turbo Control Display). Your Vado SL has the TCU (the wireless-capable e-bike controller). That's why you can use Mission Control....

Ah... gotcha! Explains a lot.

 

[FlatSix911]

If you have the Peloton app you can pretty well use any spn bike or trainer. But you don't get some the metrics you would get on-screen from the Peloton bike.

Here's a vid

I like the non-live Peloton classes (I don't have the bike, just a Keiser spin bike). I use(d) my Apple TV or iPad to watch the classes. So not really any interaction with other people for me. I've always been a spin class junkie though. And having said that, if it had been possible to buy an actual Peloton bike before I bought my eBike, I totally would have got one. Don't think I will probably ever end up with one now, even if they do come here. Though, who knows, I am nothing if not fickle! Was obsessed with Peloton classes, now am obsessed with eBikes...

Thanks for sharing this information on the Peloton App Classes... I didn't know that was an option.

I am interested in learning more and will start a separate thread on the Peloton and the VeloCore.

 

[Dallant]

I can tell you the VeloCore is taking considerably longer to get to us than they told us. Got a message saying it was going to take at least 2 more weeks than what they initially promised. FWIW, it’s a brand new device and COVID appears to have hit production hard.

 

[minigrrl]

You seem to combine the benefits from using both power-pedals and Garmin. Brilliant!
(The weakness of my solution is it has to be a Specialized Turbo e-bike -- running BLEvo on my smartphone -- to get all that info to Strava. Cannot do it with my Giant or Lovelec).

Ah right. Hopefully one day there will be a data standard across all bikes where you can just connect and grab the data with your bike computer/watch. I'm probably dreaming though...

 

[minigrrl]

That's called "pedal power meters". These are used by competing cyclists to measure their effort and are very expensive. While, any mid-drive motor does such measurement to determine the torque resulting from the rider's input...

Also used by people who are suckers for any gadget... (Not me, obviously )

 

[FlatSix911]

I can tell you the VeloCore is taking considerably longer to get to us than they told us. Got a message saying it was going to take at least 2 more weeks than what they initially promised. FWIW, it’s a brand new device and COVID appears to have hit production hard.

Good to know about the VeloCore delivery... what is the total order to shipment time?

I spoke with Peloton and they are now quoting 8 weeks... no early Christmas present for me!

 

[Dallant]

Good to know about the VeloCore delivery... what is the total order to shipment time?

I spoke with Peloton and they are now quoting 8 weeks... no early Christmas present for me!

They said 8 but it’s past that and the additional 2 weeks makes it 10 but I’m not hopeful.

 

[FlatSix911]

lol yeah. I have heard that some Peloton people are peeved that people are doing this because of course Peloton makes a large chunk of their money from selling the bike itself. (plus the ongoing monthly subscription)

Peloton marketing seems to be popping up kiosks all over in malls and some other wide open spaces now.
Next time you see one take a visit and ask them if you can use the digital app by itself on your other home trainer. Stand back, they will get very defensive about that. Maybe it's because the reps may get a commission if they sell a Peloton unit with a 1 year sub. Moreover, the apps monthly sub pricing has come down a lot too now.

If you don't need the leaderboard, cadence, onscreen resistance level and heart rate, then save the $2k+ from buying the Peloton bike and buy a trainer/rollers for your current bike and then use the app.
You can get cadence, heart rate with third party hardware/apps/devices

There's even a Peloton Digital App Facebook page

Facebook Groups

Peloton Digital App Users has 43,865 members. For all the amazing Peloton Digital App riders!

www.facebook.com

On a side note, I have a buddy that uses just the app and he has two Fisher Price Smart bikes for his kids. They ride along with him when he's training. Too cute
View attachment 71204

Fisher Price Toys & Baby Gear | Mattel Shop

Explore Fisher-Price nursery essentials and toys for newborns and babies at Mattel.com. Shop top registry picks, developmental toys, and more!

www.fisher-price.com

This needs mentioning since on the subject

Peloton issued a recall affecting nearly 30,000 bikes after reports of pedal breakages and customer injuries

Peloton said it received 120 reports of pedal breakage and sixteen reports of injury. Of the injuries, five required medical care like stitches.

www.businessinsider.com

I understand the standalone Peloton App is about $12.99 per month... a far better deal than the full subscription for $40.

Luv the photo of the kids riding along on their exercise bikes! Do you have a VeloCore and use the Peloton App?

 

[FlatSix911]

No I do not have the VeloCore trainer.
I used the Peloton app my buddy has. Rode with him a few times on a stationary trainer. Saw all his interactions with the app as he was trying to convince me to sub it.

I will have to test out the app with a few fitness classes before I purchase another bike or get a stationary trainer for the winter months.

 

[minigrrl]

If you don't need the leaderboard, cadence, onscreen resistance level and heart rate, then save the $2k+ from buying the Peloton bike and buy a trainer/rollers for your current bike and then use the app.
You can get cadence, heart rate with third party hardware/apps/devices

You can also get power with power meter pedals! (My Vectors were on my spin bike until yesterday when I moved them onto my eBike). And actually the Keiser spin bike I have also reports all those metrics (including power). The pedals were from an old spin bike that didn't have that ability and I moved them to the Keiser as then I also had the data to send to Garmin Connect.