An Ebike that is as easy to pedal (when power is off) as a regular bike

[indianajo]

This thread is full of the confusing name "hub motor". There are 2 types of hub motors, geared ones with a one way clutch where one doesn't drag an unpowered motor with your feet, and direct drive hub motors, which drag unpowered quite a bit. Now there is a geared hub motor, the GMAC, that leaves out the one way clutch so the rider can drag the motor with his feet unpowered just like a mid-drive.
bafang bbs02 is not a yamaha, shimano steps, or brose mid drive, so yes, the rider drags the motor with his feet unpowered. Most posters here do not want exercise. Go ahead, jump in your coffin, everybody else does. The doctor will treat your heart problems, instead of you maintaining cardio-health yourself. $$$$$

 

[john peck]

Hello,

How can I tell from the specs if an ebike will be easy to pedal when used as an acoustic bike?

I gather: only consider mid drive motors?
Are different motor manufacturers known for having less gear resistance when turned off?

I'm particularly interested in a commuter mountain bike style, because I like wider tires and the ruggedness.

What I looked for was a bicycle first, with benefits. I didn´t need a fast commuter. I just wanted a general purpose bike
that was sturdy enuff for moderate trails, something that could haul panniers full of groceries, a reliable, affordable daily driver.
What I got cost $1200, & is in essence a generic ´80s mtn bike with a surprisingly powerful 500w German hub motor, gearing being
a 48/38/28 triple crank & basic 7 spd 28/14 freewheel. It´s quite rideable on the 28 ring without the power . Under power it climbs
the steepest hills without ever a need for that 28 chainring. Doesn´t have all the bells & whistles of a 4 or 5K bike, but the power is
more than adequate.even for a big guy like me. At that price I could afford to personalize it. Other than flats, the only real issues
in 2500* mi. were installing a better rear disc brake I already had, & finding a rear tire better suited to an e-mtn. bike. (schwalbe smart sam plus)

*that´s 5 times more miles than I´ve driven this year.

 

[ebikebob]

Well that’s not bad at all. I can live with this amount of resistance.

 

[gringo]

I rode 52 miles (83 km) yesterday entirely unpowered on my Trek Allant+ 7 with Gen 4 Bosch mid-drive motor. I was also carrying panniers with extra gear for two people and too much extra water (96 fl oz or 3/4 gallon!). The bike felt like a normal bike and I easily cruised on flat land at a moderate pace of 15 mph. That is until I hit a series of hills.... Then I felt every gram!! I can say the downhills were fun!

 

[Deacon Blues]

I rode 52 miles (83 km) yesterday entirely unpowered on my Trek Allant+ 7 with Gen 4 Bosch mid-drive motor. I was also carrying panniers with extra gear for two people and too much extra water (96 fl oz or 3/4 gallon!). The bike felt like a normal bike and I easily cruised on flat land at a moderate pace of 15 mph. That is until I hit a series of hills.... Then I felt every gram!! I can say the downhills were fun!

Why would you do this?

 

[gringo]

Why would you do this?

LOL! I was riding with my son who was on an analog bike and I didn't want to "cheat." I sold my road bike to help offset cost of my ebike.

If it weren't for that I would have definitely cranked it into turbo for those hills!

 

[gringo]

I think ebikes in general have given a whole new meaning to 'riding a bike' vs pedaling a bike.

Are you referring to throttles on many ebikes?

Many ebikes (including mine) do not have throttles and therefore still require pedaling to move.

 

[gringo]

Yes, I definitely see some folks going full moped style without pedaling.

 

[SwiftySanders]

Specialized SL (super-lightweight) e-bikes (Levo SL - which is a mountain e-bike, Creo SL and Vado SL) are marketed as such e-bikes as you're asking for. Several users here confirm such experience with SL e-bikes while some others deny it.

This is what you are looking for. I would probably get a Vado SL or a Creo SL. Creo SL is the lightest.

The problem with most light weight e-bikes is that they don’t have any range. They may last 20 or 30 miles. Vado SL and Creo SL get almost 80miles per charge depending upon the assist level.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Vado SL and Creo SL get almost 80miles per charge depending upon the assist level.

It is always down to the effort the cyclist is ready to input in the ride. I was on an off-road ride with a traditional cyclist on Sunday; I rode my Trance E+, which is a typical e-MTB. To not intimidate the friend of mine, I rode in basic Giant Eco mode, later reduced to 75% when she got tired. I returned with 56% of the 625 Wh battery after riding 58 km (36 miles). That makes 5.8 Wh/km or 9.3 Wh/mi. If I rode alone, I could cover at least 67 km (42 mi) during the ride over the same time in the same terrain, at higher battery expense but with the same effort.

People who are not happy with SL e-bikes are ones incapable to produce more effort. I personally couldn't ride an SL.

 

[Dallant]

I ride my Trek Allant+7 with power off if I’m on the rare mostly-level road/trail as long as there aren’t 20+ mph headwinds! In the right conditions, given its a newer gen4 Bosch CX motor and the bike is in the mid-50 lbs., it seems to offer very little resistance. That said, I haven’t ridden a mid-50 lbs analog bike to compare it to.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I ride my Trek Allant+7 with power off if I’m on the rare mostly-level road/trail as long as there aren’t 20+ mph headwinds! In the right conditions, given its a newer gen4 Bosch CX motor and the bike is in the mid-50 lbs., it seems to offer very little resistance. That said, I haven’t ridden a mid-50 lbs analog bike to compare it to.

If I wanted to ride an e-bike with the power off, I would have bought a light-weight traditional bike

Why to carry the battery and the motor...

 

[BigNerd]

Because some of us can’t afford 2 bikes.

Also some of us want a bike they can use non-powered and then when they come up to that occasional hill, have the option to get some bionic assist.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Because some of us can’t afford 2 bikes.

My answer is: Always use assistance (if you are riding downhill and don't pedal, the motor takes no energy from the battery). Good e-bike allows tuning assistance levels. In my case the minimum assistance is one that just offsets the bike weight. Why to pedal e-bike unpowered in the first place?! Why to suffer riding a heavy bike after having spent thousands of dollar for it?!

 

[Taylor57]

LOL! I was riding with my son who was on an analog bike and I didn't want to "cheat." I sold my road bike to help offset cost of my ebike.

If it weren't for that I would have definitely cranked it into turbo for those hills!

I would have definitely cheated!

 

[minigrrl]

My answer is: Always use assistance (if you are riding downhill and don't pedal, the motor takes no energy from the battery). Good e-bike allows tuning assistance levels. In my case the minimum assistance is one that just offsets the bike weight. Why to pedal e-bike unpowered in the first place?! Why to suffer riding a heavy bike after having spent thousands of dollar for it?!

I like the exercise. And perversely, I think I like it more because it's heavy and feels like more of an accomplishment!

Honestly though, I don't usually turn off the power, but I do usually ride only on Level 3 which only kicks in if I'm going below 16km/h, so the motor is mostly off, even on the more minor hills. I just want it to make where I live now (Brisbane, Australia) feel as flat as where I grew up (Winnipeg, Canada).

I do like to ride with the power off occasionally, just to remind myself that I'm not as strong/fit as the bike makes me appear to be!

And of course, when I'm not riding for exercise, I can whack up the power level.

 

[Dallant]

I like the exercise. And perversely, I think I like it more because it's heavy and feels like more of an accomplishment!

Honestly though, I don't usually turn off the power, but I do usually ride only on Level 3 which only kicks in if I'm going below 16km/h, so the motor is mostly off, even on the more minor hills. I just want it to make where I live now (Brisbane, Australia) feel as flat as where I grew up (Winnipeg, Canada).

I do like to ride with the power off occasionally, just to remind myself that I'm not as strong/fit as the bike makes me appear to be!

And of course, when I'm not riding for exercise, I can whack up the power level.

It all depends on your age, fitness level, etc.! For instance, I have a good friend in his late sixties who has really bad knees and couldn’t ride a heavier ebike without assist on.

 

[minigrrl]

It all depends on your age, fitness level, etc.! For instance, I have a good friend in his late sixties who has really bad knees and couldn’t ride a heavier ebike without assist on.

Absolutely. That's what is so awesome about these bikes - you can use them however you want. Power on, power off, high assist level, low assist level. There's a different use case for every user!

 

[Luto]

I have a Moustache Dimanche 5 with a Gen 4 Bosch Mid drive. I just got back from a ride. Used the motor for the first mile since it was uphill on gravel and I like a slower warm up. The rest of the ride (14 miles) was off.

To me it feels like a tightly, well packed and balanced touring bike. On flats or slight inclines, I spin away at 90 RPM and hit the 18 mph motor cut off anyways.

The reason, I go to "off mode" is that I will be touring with an ex-racer next summer and we will be going 80-100 miles a day I suspect. That is beyond the batter capacity, and realistically, I can only get 70 miles on a FULLY drained battery, from a 100% charge. So I figure I really have about 50-60 miles of E-support without a FULL battery discharge. But since I can ride it well without the power, I can extended the day to 100 pretty easy and I do not have to carry an extra battery. Lastly, it took some practice to get better on the hills without the battery, and I am getting smoother and more efficient.

Hope this help.

 

[minigrrl]

I think e-assist may in a round-about-way be feeding some riders with false metrics if they have the assistance on all the time and/or at highest settings.

I'm actually going to move my Garmin Vectors onto my eBike because of exactly that! I need to see numerically that I'm actually still working hard. Because, obviously, I used to do all the hills and now I get help on some of them. Of course, I'm also going out every day now and for longer because I don't dread the hills anymore, so I'm hoping it all balances out.

I'm also using my eBike for errands and going out for dinner etc. which is something I'd never have done before. And even though I use a high assist level for most of those trips, it's a bit of exercise that I wouldn't have done otherwise.