Hello everybody, I have been looking for a full suspension emtb with a mid drive motor that is not some 1000-1500w overpowered one. But it seems like to get an emtb with around a 350-500w mid drive with dual suspension seems to always be 5k+. Right now it seems the only more affordable option is the Sondors Rockstar but I'm worried I won't be able to get any pedal resistance with that Bafang Ultra on there. Does anybody know of a dual suspension emtb with a smaller motor that would be around the 3k mark or if there will be one coming in the near future?
A lower power mid drive dual suspension ebike
- Thread starter Jgreen92
- Start date
fooferdoggie
Well-Known Member
the problem is any decent suspension is going to cost you.
Giant Stance-E+ 2 2021 eMTB - at Cynergy E-Bikes | Portland OR
Giant Stance-E+ 2 2021 electric mountain bike. Full air suspension. Terrific torque. 29 inch wheels. Now with Giant's PedalPlus 6-sensor technology that can automatically add assist as you climb the steepest hills. At Cynergy E-Bikes, Portland's complete source for name brand electric bikes...
www.cynergyebikes.com
fooferdoggie
Well-Known Member
but upgrading ends up costing more.
Catalyzt
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
Right, doggie-- and cheaper parts may not hold up well to the extra strain of a mid-drive motor.
I spent a long time looking for what you are describing and eventually decided that compromises had to be made-- basically, I went with a lower power motor than what you specified. This is what I wound up with-- total cost was $2,350 including tax, delivery, and assembly ($150). Here's a draft of my review, which I will eventually post in the "Reviews" section, it's almost finished. Also note that there are other, slightly higher-powered options (also with slightly different versions of the HAL frame) on the Bikes Direct website for around $2,900 before tax, but you may have to pre-order for some of them, and they are a few pounds heavier. Here's how I feel about it after about 85 miles:
This is a review of the full suspension 2021 Motobecane ULTRA eAdventure (not to be confused with the hard-tail Motobecane Elite eAdventure). Hoping this will be helpful, b/c it's hard to find specific information about any of the HAL Motobecane series e-bikes, let alone this particular bike, which is a distinct, and probably rare, variant. It may be of particular interest to those wondering about the low torque 250W Shimano Steps E5000 motor, because it's very hard to find useful information about what it's like to ride with this motor, particularly on a mountain bike.
It's important to disclose the limitations of this review, the most important one being that I'm very new to eBikes. I have no previous experience with EMTB or full suspension MTB, though I've been an avid cycler my entire life and rode rigid fork MTBs for many years, mostly for rough asphalt in the city. However, my perspective may be a useful one, because the Ultra only makes sense for fit riders as an entry-level EMTB, or a second MTB for someone who already has an e-bike for the street and who wants to get off road on a limited budget. I'll also include some information about how the Ultra compares to my first bike, in case others are considering transitioning from a low-power throttle hub drive to a low-power torque-sensing mid-drive.
The Rider:
63-year-old 6' 1” 150 pound male, generally quite fit, but with several health problems that impact stamina more than sprinting. My other e-Bike is a heavily-modified 40 pound Trek 930 with a Girvin suspension stem, seat post suspension, and a 250W “Sprinter” front wheel kit from Clean Republic (also known as “Hilltopper.”)
Why I Chose the Ultra e-Adventure:
I'm crazy about my kit bike, but range anxiety is a serious problem on my first bike, only 10-16 miles with no metering, and I'm thrashing the little 5.4 Ah battery by running it to empty so frequently. The suspension stem and seat post I added to the Trek help-- more than I expected-- but they don't completely cure the intense vibration from the terrible pavement in my neighborhood. The Trek can now handle hills on dirt fire roads it couldn't touch before adding the front hub motor, but there's still a lot of wheel spinning, and there are several hills I can only ride with very careful use of the throttle.
My priorities were full suspension, low weight, reasonable range, availability, and low price: $2,500 or less. I would have preferred a more powerful bike with higher rated torque, possibly even a Class III, but I knew that would mean compromises in weight, and/or range and/or price that I wasn't comfortable with. I knew that the relatively lower torque of the E5000 would mean tradeoffs in performance, but felt they would be more acceptable, and limited to certain specific situations. My guesses-- which were based almost entirely on digital dialogue with members and staff at EBR-- were pretty close to the mark, so I'm very grateful for the advice I got here.
The Bike as reviewed:
Size: 48 cm
Weight: 49 pounds (bathroom scale)
Motor: E5000 Shimano Steps, 40 Nm max torque
Frame: Variant of HAL; the support for rear shock appears different from other HAL frames-- the shape of the down tube is somewhat different to accommodate a different battery.
(Other details can be found on the Bikes Direct website.)
First impressions
Appearance wasn't that important to me, though I liked the way it looked on the Bikes Direct ads. In person, the sapphire blue is deeper and richer, the 418 Wh battery is matte black, not the light grey in the BD photo. I've never spent any quality time with an integrated e-MTB, but I was surprised by its footprint. Maybe it's the 48 cm frame, but this bike is a massive presence in our living room, and the rake of the front fork seems more extreme than it looked in the pictures. At 49 pounds, it's not very heavy by ebike standards, but it looks intimidating, like the bastard spawn of a dirt bike and a mountain bike. My wife's jaw dropped when she saw it, and my neighbors looked at me like I was leading a wild animal out of my house.
Motor and Power
General: Coming from a 40-pound 250W hub drive, I knew this bike was going to feel heavy and underpowered in some situations because of the E5000's low torque rating. I was not wrong. The E5000 is used on bikes that are considerably heavier, (such as the Charge XC) so I figured that as a lightweight rider, I'd probably be okay on the Ultra, and I am. But make no mistake: This is a bike for riders who like to get some exercise on primitive roads and trails, but without the extreme cardio that would entail with an acoustic bike. It turns out to also be very comfortable for cruising on the flats, where the range could be 60 miles or more, but it's mainly designed for grinding up and bombing down hills on dirt and bad pavement, where range is more likely to be a little over 40 miles.
For an eMTB, the Ultra eAdventure is getting close to the edge of the power-to-weight limit. If you're someone who needs to carry a backpack with a lot of extra gear, or you plan on using the bike for 5-mile grocery runs, this probably isn't the bike for you. Maybe the E5000 is fine for a 55 pound commuter bike and a 175 lb. Rider on level ground, but I wanted a mountain bike that could handle significant hills.
For me, the first ride-- with a 100 degree fever, I might add, and a 5-pound armored motorcycle jacket that I wear because I'm on blood thinners-- was underwhelming. I felt like, “This might work for me, but just barely.” Two weeks later, with no fever, lighter body armor, and the firmware update, I feel much more confident about keeping the bike, and that confidence has grown every day as my times on my favorite rides are getting shorter. I'm also wondering if the battery and motor might be breaking in a bit, or if my shifting technique is adapting to take advantage of the motor, but it seems to have a little more grunt than it did at the beginning of the week. If you are reasonably fit, 165 or 170, maybe a few years younger than I am and riding a frame that's a size smaller, your experience will probably be similar to mine. But if you are heavier, or are out of shape, need high uphill speeds, or just don't like exercise much, this may not be the bike for you.
Firmware: One thing that definitely helps is updating the firmware on the E5000 and resetting the bike for the new “Sportive” mode that's available in the current version. Sportive only impacts “Eco” and “Normal,” and it's a subtle difference, but it does make the motor more responsive to crank pressure when accelerating from a stop or from a slower speed-- precisely where it was weakest before the update.
Modes: There are only three. Eco has limited use, really only for cruising on dead flat terrain. If you ride on any significant hills at all, expect to spend most of your time in Normal or High, and adjust your expectations for rage accordingly.
Average Speed and Acceleration: Even after the update, the Ultra does not seem to accelerate as quickly as my kit bike, though acceleration in “High” is adequate. I say “seem” because the Ultra feels so much different from the kit bike when it accelerates that it's hard to compare them-- it doesn't pull forward like a moped the way the throttle hub drive does, but instead responds to a more consistent cadence and pedal pressure. This would be true for me transitioning to any mid-drive, but the difference is probably more noticeable with the E5000, and you will have to adapt your shifting technique more quickly, and with less margin for error. After a few quick test rides, I realized I'd been going 18-23 MPH in spots when I didn't feel like I was going that fast. Checking my the onboard computer, speed apps, and cross-referencing with back of the envelope estimates using a chronograph and online mapping tools, I consistently found that my average speeds were at about 2 MPH higher than they had been on the kit bike. This surprised me because long uphill climbs were sometimes 8% slower. However, even with such a small motor, this bike still is significantly more capable and efficient than a 250W hub drive. I found it to be at least 6% faster on average on a 14 mile run with 1,500 feet of vertical, but only if you do what it encourages you to do: Slow down a bit and downshift going uphill, be a little aggressive on the flats, and go like hell downhill.
Drag: One issue that some riders complain about with mid-drives is a perceived 'drag' from the motor once you've exceeded maximum assistance. There's some controversy about whether there actually is any drag or whether it's an illusion caused by the drop in assistance as 20 MPH is exceeded. I tend to side with those who believe that there's no real 'drag' but riders might need to downshift to compensate for the lack of assistance. I do not notice any drag at all from the E5000 on the Ultra when I blow past the 20 MPH assistance limit. The drop in assistance seems to be almost exactly at 20 MPH, it's very smooth, and not distracting in any way.
PAS System: I was surprised to find that I don't miss using the throttle on uphill curves because the Ultra has so much momentum that I don't really slow down if I stop pedaling for a few seconds when the bike is leaned way over. There is some surging on moderate-to-steep inclines at 7-8 MPH, see below. You only have three levels, Eco, Norm and High, and do not expect to use Eco very much if you are riding in hills.
Performance, Ride and Stability:
This is where the bike really comes into its own. The balance is outstanding, and it's really stable on the WTB Riddlers, never feels like it will fold up, fall over, or lose traction abruptly. Pedaling moderately hard, it does quite well navigating sharply banked turns with mild uphill gradient. If you stop pedaling for a second to avoid a pedal strike when the bike's leaned over, there's very little lost momentum.
Downhill:
Surprisingly fast and very stable at speed, outstanding handling even when the pavement's bad. Haven't tried a fast downhill run on dirt. On Vermont Canyon, I top out at 31.5 and pass cars because I do not have to slow down for the speed bumps. At all. On smooth asphalt on Griffith Park Drive, I took a long hill today where previously, the Trek maxed out at 32 MPH. The Moto peaked at 34.5 MPH, probably the fastest I've gone on a bicycle since the mid '70s. It felt absolutely rock solid.
Steep Upgrades:
Just fine, definitely less effort on a 15% grade than the 250W hub drive, but a bit slower-- a reasonable tradeoff, particularly for longer rides. Vague surging at 5-8 MPH depending on grade, but not too distracting.
Moderate to Steep / Long Uphill Climbs, varying grade:
This is the Achilles heel for this bike; the lighter hub drive on my other bike had a distinct advantage. For this kind of terrain, plan to carry as little weight as possible-- water bottle, the most basic emergency repair kit, phone, and maybe a microfiber sweatshirt in a tiny under-seat pack. It's difficult to find the right cadence and torque pressure for steeper variable grades. The torque-sensing power response surges more noticeably, again at 5-8 MPH on medium-steep sections of moderate climbs. It's like there's a certain bad spot between 8% and 10% grade when this happens-- at max effort, when the pedals are vertical, the bike delivers full assistance, but then drops abruptly as the pedals are horizontal. The problem disappears if it's a little more or less steep, it's just weird in that particular range. This may improve once I improve my shifting technique and cadence, but in some situations, this could be a feature, not a bug, for an EMTB-- just a little surge to get over a tree root or similar.
Mild Uphill Climbs:
Strong and steady, about the same effort as the 250W hub drive. You will probably be more comfortable in Norm mode.
Flat Terrain:
Better than I expected. Rode 18 miles today, and 6 of them were pretty flat with some gentle upgrades; Eco Mode was actually acceptable for this, and you can really see the range climb.
Range:
This week, I did about 26 miles with 2,000 feet of vertical, and I'd estimate that I'd have about 16 miles left on the battery, assuming similar terrain. Still conditioning battery, but I'm going to say range is about 42 miles assuming 3,000 feet of vertical. Very hard to guess how it would do on relatively flat terrain, probably at least 60, maybe considerably more, but there are a lot of hills where I ride, so I don't have much experience with Eco.
Dirt:
Did my first off-asphalt biking in the park this week, uphill hard pack dirt with a soft covering of sandy dirt, very slippery. The Trek conversion, even with two-wheel drive, could barely make it up this, required very careful use of throttle to avoid losing traction. The Moto destroyed it; low power motor was not a problem.
Gravel:
Same as dirt. This uphill wasn't 15%, but it was pretty steep for a gravel track, I wouldn't even have thought about trying it on the Trek kit bike. Moto dominated, again low power not an issue here.
I spent a long time looking for what you are describing and eventually decided that compromises had to be made-- basically, I went with a lower power motor than what you specified. This is what I wound up with-- total cost was $2,350 including tax, delivery, and assembly ($150). Here's a draft of my review, which I will eventually post in the "Reviews" section, it's almost finished. Also note that there are other, slightly higher-powered options (also with slightly different versions of the HAL frame) on the Bikes Direct website for around $2,900 before tax, but you may have to pre-order for some of them, and they are a few pounds heavier. Here's how I feel about it after about 85 miles:
This is a review of the full suspension 2021 Motobecane ULTRA eAdventure (not to be confused with the hard-tail Motobecane Elite eAdventure). Hoping this will be helpful, b/c it's hard to find specific information about any of the HAL Motobecane series e-bikes, let alone this particular bike, which is a distinct, and probably rare, variant. It may be of particular interest to those wondering about the low torque 250W Shimano Steps E5000 motor, because it's very hard to find useful information about what it's like to ride with this motor, particularly on a mountain bike.
It's important to disclose the limitations of this review, the most important one being that I'm very new to eBikes. I have no previous experience with EMTB or full suspension MTB, though I've been an avid cycler my entire life and rode rigid fork MTBs for many years, mostly for rough asphalt in the city. However, my perspective may be a useful one, because the Ultra only makes sense for fit riders as an entry-level EMTB, or a second MTB for someone who already has an e-bike for the street and who wants to get off road on a limited budget. I'll also include some information about how the Ultra compares to my first bike, in case others are considering transitioning from a low-power throttle hub drive to a low-power torque-sensing mid-drive.
The Rider:
63-year-old 6' 1” 150 pound male, generally quite fit, but with several health problems that impact stamina more than sprinting. My other e-Bike is a heavily-modified 40 pound Trek 930 with a Girvin suspension stem, seat post suspension, and a 250W “Sprinter” front wheel kit from Clean Republic (also known as “Hilltopper.”)
Why I Chose the Ultra e-Adventure:
I'm crazy about my kit bike, but range anxiety is a serious problem on my first bike, only 10-16 miles with no metering, and I'm thrashing the little 5.4 Ah battery by running it to empty so frequently. The suspension stem and seat post I added to the Trek help-- more than I expected-- but they don't completely cure the intense vibration from the terrible pavement in my neighborhood. The Trek can now handle hills on dirt fire roads it couldn't touch before adding the front hub motor, but there's still a lot of wheel spinning, and there are several hills I can only ride with very careful use of the throttle.
My priorities were full suspension, low weight, reasonable range, availability, and low price: $2,500 or less. I would have preferred a more powerful bike with higher rated torque, possibly even a Class III, but I knew that would mean compromises in weight, and/or range and/or price that I wasn't comfortable with. I knew that the relatively lower torque of the E5000 would mean tradeoffs in performance, but felt they would be more acceptable, and limited to certain specific situations. My guesses-- which were based almost entirely on digital dialogue with members and staff at EBR-- were pretty close to the mark, so I'm very grateful for the advice I got here.
The Bike as reviewed:
Size: 48 cm
Weight: 49 pounds (bathroom scale)
Motor: E5000 Shimano Steps, 40 Nm max torque
Frame: Variant of HAL; the support for rear shock appears different from other HAL frames-- the shape of the down tube is somewhat different to accommodate a different battery.
(Other details can be found on the Bikes Direct website.)
First impressions
Appearance wasn't that important to me, though I liked the way it looked on the Bikes Direct ads. In person, the sapphire blue is deeper and richer, the 418 Wh battery is matte black, not the light grey in the BD photo. I've never spent any quality time with an integrated e-MTB, but I was surprised by its footprint. Maybe it's the 48 cm frame, but this bike is a massive presence in our living room, and the rake of the front fork seems more extreme than it looked in the pictures. At 49 pounds, it's not very heavy by ebike standards, but it looks intimidating, like the bastard spawn of a dirt bike and a mountain bike. My wife's jaw dropped when she saw it, and my neighbors looked at me like I was leading a wild animal out of my house.
Motor and Power
General: Coming from a 40-pound 250W hub drive, I knew this bike was going to feel heavy and underpowered in some situations because of the E5000's low torque rating. I was not wrong. The E5000 is used on bikes that are considerably heavier, (such as the Charge XC) so I figured that as a lightweight rider, I'd probably be okay on the Ultra, and I am. But make no mistake: This is a bike for riders who like to get some exercise on primitive roads and trails, but without the extreme cardio that would entail with an acoustic bike. It turns out to also be very comfortable for cruising on the flats, where the range could be 60 miles or more, but it's mainly designed for grinding up and bombing down hills on dirt and bad pavement, where range is more likely to be a little over 40 miles.
For an eMTB, the Ultra eAdventure is getting close to the edge of the power-to-weight limit. If you're someone who needs to carry a backpack with a lot of extra gear, or you plan on using the bike for 5-mile grocery runs, this probably isn't the bike for you. Maybe the E5000 is fine for a 55 pound commuter bike and a 175 lb. Rider on level ground, but I wanted a mountain bike that could handle significant hills.
For me, the first ride-- with a 100 degree fever, I might add, and a 5-pound armored motorcycle jacket that I wear because I'm on blood thinners-- was underwhelming. I felt like, “This might work for me, but just barely.” Two weeks later, with no fever, lighter body armor, and the firmware update, I feel much more confident about keeping the bike, and that confidence has grown every day as my times on my favorite rides are getting shorter. I'm also wondering if the battery and motor might be breaking in a bit, or if my shifting technique is adapting to take advantage of the motor, but it seems to have a little more grunt than it did at the beginning of the week. If you are reasonably fit, 165 or 170, maybe a few years younger than I am and riding a frame that's a size smaller, your experience will probably be similar to mine. But if you are heavier, or are out of shape, need high uphill speeds, or just don't like exercise much, this may not be the bike for you.
Firmware: One thing that definitely helps is updating the firmware on the E5000 and resetting the bike for the new “Sportive” mode that's available in the current version. Sportive only impacts “Eco” and “Normal,” and it's a subtle difference, but it does make the motor more responsive to crank pressure when accelerating from a stop or from a slower speed-- precisely where it was weakest before the update.
Modes: There are only three. Eco has limited use, really only for cruising on dead flat terrain. If you ride on any significant hills at all, expect to spend most of your time in Normal or High, and adjust your expectations for rage accordingly.
Average Speed and Acceleration: Even after the update, the Ultra does not seem to accelerate as quickly as my kit bike, though acceleration in “High” is adequate. I say “seem” because the Ultra feels so much different from the kit bike when it accelerates that it's hard to compare them-- it doesn't pull forward like a moped the way the throttle hub drive does, but instead responds to a more consistent cadence and pedal pressure. This would be true for me transitioning to any mid-drive, but the difference is probably more noticeable with the E5000, and you will have to adapt your shifting technique more quickly, and with less margin for error. After a few quick test rides, I realized I'd been going 18-23 MPH in spots when I didn't feel like I was going that fast. Checking my the onboard computer, speed apps, and cross-referencing with back of the envelope estimates using a chronograph and online mapping tools, I consistently found that my average speeds were at about 2 MPH higher than they had been on the kit bike. This surprised me because long uphill climbs were sometimes 8% slower. However, even with such a small motor, this bike still is significantly more capable and efficient than a 250W hub drive. I found it to be at least 6% faster on average on a 14 mile run with 1,500 feet of vertical, but only if you do what it encourages you to do: Slow down a bit and downshift going uphill, be a little aggressive on the flats, and go like hell downhill.
Drag: One issue that some riders complain about with mid-drives is a perceived 'drag' from the motor once you've exceeded maximum assistance. There's some controversy about whether there actually is any drag or whether it's an illusion caused by the drop in assistance as 20 MPH is exceeded. I tend to side with those who believe that there's no real 'drag' but riders might need to downshift to compensate for the lack of assistance. I do not notice any drag at all from the E5000 on the Ultra when I blow past the 20 MPH assistance limit. The drop in assistance seems to be almost exactly at 20 MPH, it's very smooth, and not distracting in any way.
PAS System: I was surprised to find that I don't miss using the throttle on uphill curves because the Ultra has so much momentum that I don't really slow down if I stop pedaling for a few seconds when the bike is leaned way over. There is some surging on moderate-to-steep inclines at 7-8 MPH, see below. You only have three levels, Eco, Norm and High, and do not expect to use Eco very much if you are riding in hills.
Performance, Ride and Stability:
This is where the bike really comes into its own. The balance is outstanding, and it's really stable on the WTB Riddlers, never feels like it will fold up, fall over, or lose traction abruptly. Pedaling moderately hard, it does quite well navigating sharply banked turns with mild uphill gradient. If you stop pedaling for a second to avoid a pedal strike when the bike's leaned over, there's very little lost momentum.
Downhill:
Surprisingly fast and very stable at speed, outstanding handling even when the pavement's bad. Haven't tried a fast downhill run on dirt. On Vermont Canyon, I top out at 31.5 and pass cars because I do not have to slow down for the speed bumps. At all. On smooth asphalt on Griffith Park Drive, I took a long hill today where previously, the Trek maxed out at 32 MPH. The Moto peaked at 34.5 MPH, probably the fastest I've gone on a bicycle since the mid '70s. It felt absolutely rock solid.
Steep Upgrades:
Just fine, definitely less effort on a 15% grade than the 250W hub drive, but a bit slower-- a reasonable tradeoff, particularly for longer rides. Vague surging at 5-8 MPH depending on grade, but not too distracting.
Moderate to Steep / Long Uphill Climbs, varying grade:
This is the Achilles heel for this bike; the lighter hub drive on my other bike had a distinct advantage. For this kind of terrain, plan to carry as little weight as possible-- water bottle, the most basic emergency repair kit, phone, and maybe a microfiber sweatshirt in a tiny under-seat pack. It's difficult to find the right cadence and torque pressure for steeper variable grades. The torque-sensing power response surges more noticeably, again at 5-8 MPH on medium-steep sections of moderate climbs. It's like there's a certain bad spot between 8% and 10% grade when this happens-- at max effort, when the pedals are vertical, the bike delivers full assistance, but then drops abruptly as the pedals are horizontal. The problem disappears if it's a little more or less steep, it's just weird in that particular range. This may improve once I improve my shifting technique and cadence, but in some situations, this could be a feature, not a bug, for an EMTB-- just a little surge to get over a tree root or similar.
Mild Uphill Climbs:
Strong and steady, about the same effort as the 250W hub drive. You will probably be more comfortable in Norm mode.
Flat Terrain:
Better than I expected. Rode 18 miles today, and 6 of them were pretty flat with some gentle upgrades; Eco Mode was actually acceptable for this, and you can really see the range climb.
Range:
This week, I did about 26 miles with 2,000 feet of vertical, and I'd estimate that I'd have about 16 miles left on the battery, assuming similar terrain. Still conditioning battery, but I'm going to say range is about 42 miles assuming 3,000 feet of vertical. Very hard to guess how it would do on relatively flat terrain, probably at least 60, maybe considerably more, but there are a lot of hills where I ride, so I don't have much experience with Eco.
Dirt:
Did my first off-asphalt biking in the park this week, uphill hard pack dirt with a soft covering of sandy dirt, very slippery. The Trek conversion, even with two-wheel drive, could barely make it up this, required very careful use of throttle to avoid losing traction. The Moto destroyed it; low power motor was not a problem.
Gravel:
Same as dirt. This uphill wasn't 15%, but it was pretty steep for a gravel track, I wouldn't even have thought about trying it on the Trek kit bike. Moto dominated, again low power not an issue here.
Merle Nelson
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
Thank you for the huge effort you put into documenting this and sharing it.
Catalyzt
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
Thanks! I have updated the review, but haven't posted it in the "Review" section yet.
Brief update: I now have 500 miles on the bike, and I did switch to tubeless Maxxis Ikons that are quite a bit lighter and have less rolling resistance, and swapped out the ridiculously heavy stock saddle with some cheap, generic super-light CF saddle. The bike is down to 46 pounds, and since most of the weight I lost was unsprung, it was quite noticeable, and it does better on long climbs. It is now scary fast going downhill-- I hit nearly 38 MPH on the hill where I'd previously topped out at 34.5. Range improved also, though the rider got stronger... still around 40 miles of range, but with 4,000 feet of vertical, not 3,000.
No maintenance problems so far-- I heard some friction in the front brake, and we're headed into peak riding season for me in Los Angeles, so I took it into the shop for routine maintenance, just to have everything checked and cleaned. For a while, it was throwing its chain, but I finally figured out... drum roll, please... it was catching on my pant legs! Nothing wrong with the bike, an ankle strap to secure my pants solved the problem.
Brief update: I now have 500 miles on the bike, and I did switch to tubeless Maxxis Ikons that are quite a bit lighter and have less rolling resistance, and swapped out the ridiculously heavy stock saddle with some cheap, generic super-light CF saddle. The bike is down to 46 pounds, and since most of the weight I lost was unsprung, it was quite noticeable, and it does better on long climbs. It is now scary fast going downhill-- I hit nearly 38 MPH on the hill where I'd previously topped out at 34.5. Range improved also, though the rider got stronger... still around 40 miles of range, but with 4,000 feet of vertical, not 3,000.
No maintenance problems so far-- I heard some friction in the front brake, and we're headed into peak riding season for me in Los Angeles, so I took it into the shop for routine maintenance, just to have everything checked and cleaned. For a while, it was throwing its chain, but I finally figured out... drum roll, please... it was catching on my pant legs! Nothing wrong with the bike, an ankle strap to secure my pants solved the problem.
Merle Nelson
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
Great update info too.
Stefan Mikes
Well-Known Member
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, Poland
I wonder why the OP didn't chose a Specialized Turbo LEVO SL.
Merle Nelson
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
No coupons for $4K discounts at his time of purchase? 
Stefan Mikes
Well-Known Member
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, Poland
Some people still believe in free lunchesNo coupons for $4K discounts at his time of purchase?
Merle Nelson
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
After answering others questions about ebikes on the trail or taking a new person out for a days ride - and they're hooked - the conversation of $ frequently comes up with my wife. She laments that we're spending a lot of money on ebikes. I say, I know, I started out thinking they should cost 2K each - I still think they should cost about that. (We just did 11 for an Orbea Rise for her to get highly functional /light.)
Stefan Mikes
Well-Known Member
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, Poland
Merle: The least expensive of my e-bikes was at the cost level of my old Renault Megane Station Wagon car.
There are priorities in your life.
There are priorities in your life.
JRA
Well-Known Member
I had been tracking the Bikes Direct M600 Hal e model for over a year and it kept getting kicked down the road as things have in the last year and a half.
I felt that it ticked all my boxes, including what the OP is looking for in regards to mid power as the Ultra doesn't interest me due to its inherent high weight factor, and the $2999 price was reasonable but was reluctant to put down the full price in case something else came along. When I finally decided that perhaps their delivery estimate of December, now calling it a 2022 model, and nothing else had caught my eye I went for the buy button. But alas when trying to seal the deal it came up "sold out". So it goes.
But it does show, at least to me, that their is the ability to manufacture a fairly reasonably priced eMTB albeit with perhaps not the best components all of which are upgradeable of course but serviceable enough to ride out of the box and until they fail. Sure it has the Bafang motor but it is proving to be a decent motor now that it has been out for awhile and at least somewhat comparable to the more boutique brands.
I felt that it ticked all my boxes, including what the OP is looking for in regards to mid power as the Ultra doesn't interest me due to its inherent high weight factor, and the $2999 price was reasonable but was reluctant to put down the full price in case something else came along. When I finally decided that perhaps their delivery estimate of December, now calling it a 2022 model, and nothing else had caught my eye I went for the buy button. But alas when trying to seal the deal it came up "sold out". So it goes.
But it does show, at least to me, that their is the ability to manufacture a fairly reasonably priced eMTB albeit with perhaps not the best components all of which are upgradeable of course but serviceable enough to ride out of the box and until they fail. Sure it has the Bafang motor but it is proving to be a decent motor now that it has been out for awhile and at least somewhat comparable to the more boutique brands.
Merle Nelson
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
Thanks for putting that up JRA. One friend of mine wants an ebike and mentioned his budget.....to which I cringed but said nothing. I'll encourage him to stretch the budget a bit and look at that - nice looking bike.
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