A BBSHD Killer? Here comes the CYC Photon

[mclewis1]

... I also accept the for some and his customers a sustainable alternative to a Bosch style duos important.

I think having an alternative to the highly integrated commercial mid drives is important for a lot of folks. I only wish there was some common control code for these setups. Yes I know that you actually could graft a Grin Cycle Analyst into one of these mid drive setups ... but it's not an easy or "optimal" approach.

 

[kb_79]

But I do not use a gear change sensor
I have no need
With my programming I have two acceleration curves. With a micro pedaling pause it is gentle and even.. even with PAS increase. With continuous pedaling it is more aggressive with PAS increase but still smooth.
As for stopping the motor for gear change.. That is easily accomplished by with a micro pedal pause or very slight touch on the brake lever.

Yes it's possible but for a slightly faster driving this sensor is essential and it is not yet fully compatible with the BBS-FW on GitHub

 

[Gionnirocket]

Yes it's possible but for a slightly faster driving this sensor is essential and it is not yet fully compatible with the BBS-FW on GitHub

You want to race!?!?

 

[kb_79]

Vous voulez faire la course !?!?

Sometimes yes I love to send the watts

 

[PedalUma]

Off topic, I just came back from lunch and a peaceful ride in the warm sunshine, bird watching, and talking with friends to my office. It is nuts here. There is a 60' crane loading massive H-Vac equipment and a bunch of roofers are sawing, drilling and hammering. I have to be here to finish a project or I would just split. Yes, for experienced ridders a gear sensor is not needed.

 

[AHicks]

I’m OK with the comments from pedaluma. I get it and he’s no threat to md and my throttle. I also accept the for some and his customers a sustainable alternative to a Bosch style duos important. Fair enough!

I'm OK too. It's not his opinion/riding habits that concern me. I'm WAY more interested in those newbies following/running across this string, that are just coming up to speed with the the idea of throttle vs. none - or maybe those that hadn't even considered a throttle. I think they deserve accurate info, with as little bias as possible..... My thought anyway. FWIW. -Al

 

[PedalUma]

coming up to speed

My preferences are biased. I openly admit it. I have ridden many throttle bikes and ghost pedal bikes and torque sensor bikes of several flavors. For me, I happen to like lightweight bikes that feel like bikes, but are somewhat boosted. It is like playing a real guitar but amplified, and not at all like getting feed by a feeding tube in an ICU, throttle, which is happening now to a loved one. He lost half his weight in 90 days. I love that guy. A fun guy and with generous humor, John. Oh, no, what a loss. I want to give him a hug, yet he is a continent away and in an ICU. IMO, Bob Dylan went electric on July 25, 1865, so have I. No regrets, but I still need to play and ride a bike with chewy feel everyday.

 

[EVEN FATTER THAN THE BOZO BUT CAN RIDE]

So today I did a little around the block experiment under throttle. I have a short loop, maybe 1/3 of a mile with a 80 feet of elevation over the course of the loop. First lap, motor cold, I did an full throttle loop at speed. The bike completed the loop and I was at full speed. I was in race mode 3 for all these tests. Measured 118 F on the motor at the end. Ambient temps were low 60's. Output was hovering around 1200 watts, but I had the setting for number of magnets at 6 (I have one) so I was reading around 4 mph at full speed. Second loop, I fixed that and set speed limits to max on both race and street modes and the motor dies on my at about 1/4th of the loop. No overheating as temps were about the same. Came back to start, and went a third time with no changes, made it 7/8ths of the way but I kept it under 28 mph so I wouldn't hit the ceiling. Died and I pedaled the last 8th.

Sounds to me not that I am seeing overheating in this scenario, but that I have some kind of software issue that kills the motor when it hits a weird state. Anyone else have any issues like this? Any ideas from more knowledgeable folks are welcome.

Lastly, I emailed [email protected] a few times over the past weekend, but no replies. Are they typically poor regarding support?

 

[m@Robertson]

Wonder why CYC has no chain rings in the 40's?
34, 38 and 50? Where's the logic there?

My only guess is its capable of hi rpms (Cyc only says it is capable of >300 rpms at the crank) so the 38T is fine to rev up to higher speed yet still good at lower rpms for hill climbing. That would also keep people from bogging the motor. My X1 Pro screams so fast (it runs a kart chain by design) I'm afraid for my ankles when it gets up near its 10,000 rpm spec limit. The Photon can't do 10k but the company has demonstrated with the X1 Pro and Stealth they can do reliable hi rpm motors.

 

[m@Robertson]

Lastly, I emailed [email protected] a few times over the past weekend, but no replies. Are they typically poor regarding support?

Use the Facebook users group. If you are using email you are using a back channel. The FB group is filled with users who can offer advice over and above Cyc. Then DM the Cyc people with specifics if they don't reach out to you directly. If you are one of those that "don't do Facebook" then you're SOL. You really want to be asking the user base in the place where the manufacturer is watching all day long.

I have heard stories of controller cutout situations similar to this on prior motors but they were entirely different hardware bases. The Photon is a totally different animal with totally different underlying controller hardware and software.

In this case you could have invoked a protection circuit of some kind.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Starting to sound like another CYC Saturday Night Live situation that's been mentioned here before.
Release of another... not ready for prime time player.
Forcing people to use Twitter, Facebook etc.... Is a huge negative for me as well. You provide an email for tech support .. Be professional/responsible and fuckin' use it!

 

[Gionnirocket]

Sorry about your friend... it sucks to be a witness.

But as with the programming.. I think you're missing the potential of a throttle. It's not an all or nothing, black and white situation.
Think of it as a wah wah pedal. You don't use it in every song, every moment of play... But when you do, it sure does have value.

"Since the guitar's inception, there have been countless talented players who could make the instrument sing, but it wasn't until the mid-Sixties and the arrival of the wah pedal that guitarists could make it cry.
Perhaps because it entered the collective consciousness at the hands - or feet, rather - of guitar gods like Jimi Hendrix and Eric Clapton, the wah pedal has been a vital part of the rock and roll lexicon since it was introduced by Vox, finding favor with guitarists who wanted to bring a whole new level of expressive possibilities to their playing."

And no matter how you like to ride.

 

[AHicks]

Lastly, I emailed [email protected] a few times over the past weekend, but no replies. Are they typically poor regarding support?

I think maybe even the best company may have you on ignore over the weekends. Expecting any different would be a little over the top to my way of thinking.

 

[Gionnirocket]

My only guess is its capable of hi rpms (Cyc only says it is capable of >300 rpms at the crank) so the 38T is fine to rev up to higher speed yet still good at lower rpms for hill climbing. That would also keep people from bogging the motor. My X1 Pro screams so fast (it runs a kart chain by design) I'm afraid for my ankles when it gets up near its 10,000 rpm spec limit. The Photon can't do 10k but the company has demonstrated with the X1 Pro and Stealth they can do reliable hi rpm motors.

That would make more sense if we weren't talking about a Pedal Assist Bicycle. The user input is just as important.

 

[UpCollinUP]

Starting to sound like another CYC Saturday Night Live situation that's been mentioned here before.
Release of another... not ready for prime time player.
Forcing people to use Twitter, Facebook etc.... Is a huge negative for me as well. You provide an email for tech support .. Be professional/responsible and fuckin' use it!

They do provide an email address it's right on their website, I have never had it take more than a couple of hours for them to respond. I don't use Facebook and haven't needed it in order to talk to CYC.

 

[m@Robertson]

Yeah I didn't say you were forced to use it. But its a choice between a freeway and the frontage road. Your problem is immediately visible to a community, many of which may have already experienced your issue and know exactly what to do about it. A forum like this is valuable, but it lacks detailed focus and experience - especially on a new product. a targeted user group will have dozens if not hundreds of direct users. In a general forum you get one or two. Not taking advantage of that level of knowledge is a handicap.

 

[tomjasz]

Be professional/responsible

Oh like, Bafang?
Firmware and software leaked by buyers with no support from Bafang.
Bafang refused to release how to program.
Bafang changed the entire BBS01 and BBS02 design and upgraded and shipped an never told resellers.
BBS01 BBS02 poor quality Mosfets knew it and continued.
BBSHD rotor shaft failure. No announcement just a new version and no advice on backward compatibility.

Should I go on?

I'm still liking the motors, as I could repair and no thanks to Bafang, rabid users helped build a support pipeline and parts stream.

I agree with the Facebook madness. But they're not alone in that decision. EggRider was big on Facebook for a while, but once they got bigger that support dwindled. The Facebook format and poor threading make it a PIA for support IMO.

In the end, none of the 6 brands of mid-drive kits I've owned have any better track record.

The cost and nature of the beast?

 

[MainlyCivil]

In the end, none of the 6 brands of mid-drive kits I've owned have any better track record.

The cost and nature of the beast?

Say it isn't so!?! : 0

I have been trawling Craigslist for an older steel-frame bike with 26" wheels to retrofit with a torque-sensing mid-drive as I enjoy the one on my Evelo Dash. I've looked at the Tongsheng in the past and now more recently have been looking into the Photon. My goal is basically a none-too-fast, none-too-far bike for riding paved and gravel trails.

I guess by electing to undertake a project it's possible that I will get a project, which is kind of another intrinsic goal... ; )

 

[Gionnirocket]

Oh like, Bafang?

Should I go on?

... and why do you think that I'm looking elsewhere?

 

[PedalUma]

I am developing a far greater appreciation for imperfection. If you wait until conditions are perfect before moving ahead, you will never get anywhere. The same goes for the motor manufactures.