2020 Allant 9.9S Grinding Noise from motor or is it?

[Alaskan]

@JonVonGod @GuruUno My noise is not normal and showed up after riding the bike for at least 400 miles. It was not there before that. It is not a motor noise. My mechanic has been in close communication with the tech people at Trek. His name is Joseph and he works at the Trek store in Bellingham, WA.

The noise can best be described as a rhythmic scratch, scratch sound that coincides with each down stroke of the pedals (two times per full, 360 rotation of the cranks) and only is there when pedaling with enough torque. It does not do it with easy, low pressure pedalling. It is always present climbing a hill or going fast. Although it seems to be coming from the bottom bracket, noises are infamous for traveling on bikes and seeming to come from places other than where they originate. They were able to reproduce the noise in the shop with the motor turned off as the needed torque to move the bike without the motor was enough to make the noise plainly evident.

If this description matches yours, you should make your shop aware of what my shop has done so far.

My guy went the direction of motor and got a replacement motor from Trek corporate. The noise was the same with the new motor.

My mechanic is ALMOST sure it is the Shimano microspline freehub that is the problem. He is off till Thursday but will be getting in touch. I will update here when I have more positive info.

 

[JonVonGod]

@JonVonGod @GuruUno My noise is not normal and showed up after riding the bike for at least 400 miles. It was not there before that. It is not a motor noise. My mechanic has been in close communication with the tech people at Trek. His name is Joseph and he works at the Trek store in Bellingham, WA.

The noise can best be described as a rhythmic scratch, scratch sound that coincides with each down stroke of the pedals (two times per full, 360 rotation of the cranks) and only is there when pedaling with enough torque. It does not do it with easy, low pressure pedalling. It is always present climbing a hill or going fast. Although it seems to be coming from the bottom bracket, noises are infamous for traveling on bikes and seeming to come from places other than where they originate. They were able to reproduce the noise in the shop with the motor turned off as the needed torque to move the bike without the motor was enough to make the noise plainly evident.

If this description matches yours, you should make your shop aware of what my shop has done so far.

My guy went the direction of motor and got a replacement motor from Trek corporate. The noise was the same with the new motor.

My mechanic is ALMOST sure it is the Shimano microspline freehub that is the problem. He is off till Thursday but will be getting in touch. I will update here when I have more positive info.

Thank you so much for the update; I’ve passed this info on to Mike at Chain Reaction Bikes. By the way @Alaskan, thanks for all the advice on modifications to this awesome bike. I love the Kinect seat post and the Baramind bars. I installed their Trek model, but have the more relaxed City model on order. It should arrive any day now. With those, I’ll be adding the SQ Lab 702 grips. The single coolest upgrade is the SRAM AXS electronic shifter upgrade you also recommended. Thanks again!

 

[Alaskan]

Thank you so much for the update; I’ve passed this info on to Mike at Chain Reaction Bikes. By the way @Alaskan, thanks for all the advice on modifications to this awesome bike. I love the Kinect seat post and the Baramind bars. I installed their Trek model, but have the more relaxed City model on order. It should arrive any day now. With those, I’ll be adding the SQ Lab 702 grips. The single coolest upgrade is the SRAM AXS electronic shifter upgrade you also recommended. Thanks again!

Glad you found my mods usefull. FYI, the city model Baramind is their narrowest. I like the sweep back angle and the rise but I found that I liked the Sqlab grips mounted slip out about 3/4" on the bars to give a bit more leverage and also provide a skosh more cockpit space. Given how the grips clamp on the inside rather than the outside, I gave that a try. I guess it is not entirely kosher to install the grips that way but I could not see any harm in it and it makes the Baramind City about 1.5" wider which felt just right to me.

Also you might note where I mounted the AXS controller inboard from the brake clamp and the Knog OI bell. That got it out of the way while wrapping my hand around the grip and eliminates unintentional shifting. It also made it ergonomically easier to put my thumb on the switching surfaces. (inboard from the controller is the button for a little USB chargeable horn (visible just under the lower right corner of the Nyon).

 

[JonVonGod]

Glad you found my mods usefull. FYI, the city model Baramind is their narrowest. I like the sweep back angle and the rise but I found that I liked the Sqlab grips mounted slip out about 3/4" on the bars to give a bit more leverage and also provide a skosh more cockpit space. Given how the grips clamp on the inside rather than the outside, I gave that a try. I guess it is not entirely kosher to install the grips that way but I could not see any harm in it and it makes the Baramind City about 1.5" wider which felt just right to me.

Also you might note where I mounted the AXS controller inboard from the brake clamp and the Knog OI bell. That got it out of the way while wrapping my hand around the grip and eliminates unintentional shifting. It also made it ergonomically easier to put my thumb on the switching surfaces. (inboard from the controller is the button for a little USB chargeable horn (visible just under the lower right corner of the Nyon).

View attachment 51691

I’m interested in possibly upgrading the rear hub to the Onyx you mentioned, particularly if the stock unit proves to be defective. Any thoughts?

 

[Alaskan]

Just heard from the Bellingham Trek shop.

I brought the Allant in right away when the noise showed up, put less than a 1/4 mile on it.

They changed the motor with no effect on the noise so it was not a Bosch issue at all. When they put the new motor on and ride tested the bike the noise was still there.

After eliminating other possible problem areas, they inspected the rear hub and concluded it was the most likely source. Upon disassembly and inspection they found that the clutch plate mechanism had failed. They are replacing all the inner parts of the freehub and clutch plate and plan to return the bike to me later today. This assumes when the hub is back together that the noise is gone. I will post a final result here.

I am still thinking of getting an Onyx hub and having it laced into my wheel. That should be the ultimate refinement on top of an already really sweet, dialed in drive train.

ps. the bike is coming home with a new range boost installed on the down tube.

 

[GuruUno]

Got my Allant 9S back today, the put new 'internals' into the existing Shimano hub. I saw a gob grease spewing from the side so not sure what is what. The LBS said they replaced the guts.
Rode the bike for 15 miles this evening, perfect.

HOWEVER, initially when the bike was new/delivered, when "free wheeling" (coasting without pedaling) I would hear this 'click, click, click' and was told it was the way it is, and that's that. My previous Super Commuter did not make that clicking while free wheeling. I do hear some other bikers with their clicking and have no knowledge of its purpose, effect, need or otherwise, however, the NEW GUTS DO NOT CLICK like previous one did, so I'm at a loss as to understand that in itself.

On another note, got the Sram AXS installed, it's fantastic. One thing though...I feel like I'm 'reaching' for the paddle/control and would like to know if it is something that has any type of optional mount on the handlebar to have it jut more to the right a bi1t an 1" or so so I'm not stretching my thumb to the left to use it. With my hand placed on the handgrip in a comfortable position, I'd like to naturally just have the ability to activate it without 'reaching'.

 

[TMH]

Sorry you guys have apparently been beta testers (for Shimano?). Good on Trek for ultimately making things right. Glad you guys are getting your bikes back in working order - The weather is here!

 

[Alaskan]

Got mine today as well. Same solution, all new internals on the original hub. There was a failure of the clutch plate mechanism after I heard the scratchy noise and turned the bike in. during the testing of the replacement motor (which turned out not to be needed). I just got back from a ride and it sounds and runs perfectly. @GuroUno I hope you like the AXS as much as I do. If the controller clamp ring is already right next to the grip, I don't know how you get it any closer. I actually wanted it further away so I don't keep accidentally shift when I go over bumps. See the photo of my cockpit in the above post.

 

[Clydesdale]

Glad you found my mods usefull. FYI, the city model Baramind is their narrowest. I like the sweep back angle and the rise but I found that I liked the Sqlab grips mounted slip out about 3/4" on the bars to give a bit more leverage and also provide a skosh more cockpit space. Given how the grips clamp on the inside rather than the outside, I gave that a try. I guess it is not entirely kosher to install the grips that way but I could not see any harm in it and it makes the Baramind City about 1.5" wider which felt just right to me.

Also you might note where I mounted the AXS controller inboard from the brake clamp and the Knog OI bell. That got it out of the way while wrapping my hand around the grip and eliminates unintentional shifting. It also made it ergonomically easier to put my thumb on the switching surfaces. (inboard from the controller is the button for a little USB chargeable horn (visible just under the lower right corner of the Nyon).

View attachment 51691

@Alaskan - thanks for sharing so much of your mods.

I have a Cannondale Synapse AL2 and I upgraded to the Nyon based on your recommendation. It is a great improvement over the Purion. However, I just bought the Allant+ 8s (selling my Stromer ST2 due to lack of local bike shop support in Atlanta) and I actually like the Bosch Cobi Smart Hub better. My #1 issue the the Nyon is the maps for my area just aren't very good and the re-routing from the Nyon is terrible. I also have an Apple Watch and I like how the Cobi uses the heart rate monitor from my watch.

So, I am wondering what you did with your Smart Hub and if you might want to trade for my Nyon? If not, would you sell it? I plan to use both my e-bikes so I could just use my iPhone between the two bikes and use same maps, interface, etc.

 

[Seiber]

I picked up my 9.9s last Thursday and have since put 108 miles on it. It was super quiet up until I hit about 40 miles and then I started hearing a creaking sound coming from the crank area, almost like a bad bottom bracket. Could be flex in the frame around the mounting screws to the motor? I brought it to my LBS and they tightened the crank arm screws. Still noisy. Any ideas? I’m planning to keep riding for another 100 miles and then I will bring it back in if it’s still noisy. Maybe it just needs time to settle in.

@ppilarski I have had the creaking sound you mentioned so much that my 9.9S spent many days at my local Trek shop for diagnosis and repair. They singled out the back fender connection to the frame. There are two stays on each side that have a channel that keeps the fender in place (see attachment). There was some small amount of movement there as the frame flexes causing the squeak/creak sound and amplifying it. You can test this out on your bike by just applying pressure on the top of the fender near that area as you ride (safely...).

I would have posted a picture of my bike but it's back in the shop as I'm inquiring about the hub fix - thanks for that info @GuruUno

 

[GuruUno]

Wow! That is real interesting (the noise from the fender). Just yesterday when I went to pickup my repaied bike and did a test ride at the LBS I had 'that noise' too!
So, upon further investigation last evening I also found the EXACT same thing.
Notified the LBS and had a discussion with Jason (Trek Customer Service Manager) today...they have some potential fixes and are aware of THAT issue also.
Like I said before, what the hell is going to be next?

 

[Alaskan]

35 miles ride on the Allant today, mostly in Turbo and pedaling hard, heart rate around 120, rider wattage around 120 average speed close to 20. started with 93% in two batteries, ended the ride with 42% remaining. The bike rode like a dream and was nice and quiet. The guys at our local Trek shop did a great job

I've been reading up more about the Onyx hubs, made in Michigan and available in lots of different colors. I am going to do it in anodized Candy red.
Here is a long term review of the Onyx [

Onyx Hubs Review: Long-term Trail Tested

Our long-term Onyx Hubs review and why silent, instant engagement should be considered when looking at a hub for bikepacking and technical mountain biking.

bikepacking.com

This is the model that swaps out directly with the Allant [

Onyx Vesper MTB CL MS 142/12 Thru-bolt Rear Hub

SKU: 102654

onyxrp.com

 

[steve mercier]

One of you Gen 4 owners might start a thread asking the owners of other Gen 4 motors ( particularly on any other brand bike) A: their mileage and B: any noises / troubles? It sounds like Bosch took a bashing here for nothing?

 

[GuruUno]

One of you Gen 4 owners might start a thread asking the owners of other Gen 4 motors ( particularly on any other brand bike) A: their mileage and B: any noises / troubles? It sounds like Bosch took a bashing here for nothing?

Possibly. BUT, let's look at previous history that drove us to this...and don't believe me, I'll find it if I can, but I thought I just read that Trek is gonna start using Yamaha motors on some lines. Just sayin'

 

[steve mercier]

Possibly. BUT, let's look at previous history that drove us to this...and don't believe me, I'll find it if I can, but I thought I just read that Trek is gonna start using Yamaha motors on some lines. Just sayin'

Guru , Trek previously used Shimano but they dropped them. That says nothing about Shimano quality or reliability. Adding Yamaha is not a slight on Bosch. Like Alaskan we have over 27,000 km on our Bosch CX ,s with no motor or battery issues and only a "low battery" message on one Intuvia which was replaced on warranty. I have read on this thread that Bosch replaced motors even when they were not the problem ,so I am just sayin... I love my Bosch CX motors.

 

[Over50]

Yes it might be fair to change the title of the thread - or update it to denote that it wasn't the motor and not a Bosch defect.

I had one ride recently on a windless day (a rarity lately). I think I might have some of the creaking noise mentioned in relation to the fender. Most noticeable when standing and pedaling hard from a stop.

I'm still hoping to get the SRAM AXS upgrade and if I do I will launch a preemptive strike on the Shimano hub and replace it with something better - hopefully the Onyx if compatible. But looks like my LBS is so slammed that they aren't taking new appointments until sometime out in June. I might not be able to execute on these upgrades for quite a while.

 

[GuruUno]

Yes it might be fair to change the title of the thread - or update it to denote that it wasn't the motor and not a Bosch defect.

I had one ride recently on a windless day (a rarity lately). I think I might have some of the creaking noise mentioned in relation to the fender. Most noticeable when standing and pedaling hard from a stop.

I'm still hoping to get the SRAM AXS upgrade and if I do I will launch a preemptive strike on the Shimano hub and replace it with something better - hopefully the Onyx if compatible. But looks like my LBS is so slammed that they aren't taking new appointments until sometime out in June. I might not be able to execute on these upgrades for quite a while.

Agreed, changed

 

[GuruUno]

And just to add....like I stated before, what may be next. That's all.
Trek told me today the the Allant + 9.9S is "Trek's most technologically advanced bike ever developed", so one must assume we are living on bleeding edge.

 

[ppilarski]

@ppilarski I have had the creaking sound you mentioned so much that my 9.9S spent many days at my local Trek shop for diagnosis and repair. They singled out the back fender connection to the frame. There are two stays on each side that have a channel that keeps the fender in place (see attachment). There was some small amount of movement there as the frame flexes causing the squeak/creak sound and amplifying it. You can test this out on your bike by just applying pressure on the top of the fender near that area as you ride (safely...).

I would have posted a picture of my bike but it's back in the shop as I'm inquiring about the hub fix - thanks for that info @GuruUno

@Seiber, thanks for sharing that information, it has been driving me crazy. Amazing what a little squeaking can do over time.

I checked mine out just a few minutes ago and the two screws that connect the fender & rack to the rear chain stays were loose and the fender guide rail that you pointed out in the image you shared is indeed not secured. Have they proposed a fix for this yet that you know of? If I have time tomorrow, I might take the entire back section off to test it out.

 

[JonVonGod]

35 miles ride on the Allant today, mostly in Turbo and pedaling hard, heart rate around 120, rider wattage around 120 average speed close to 20. started with 93% in two batteries, ended the ride with 42% remaining. The bike rode like a dream and was nice and quiet. The guys at our local Trek shop did a great job

I've been reading up more about the Onyx hubs, made in Michigan and available in lots of different colors. I am going to do it in anodized Candy red.
Here is a long term review of the Onyx [

Onyx Hubs Review: Long-term Trail Tested

Our long-term Onyx Hubs review and why silent, instant engagement should be considered when looking at a hub for bikepacking and technical mountain biking.

bikepacking.com

This is the model that swaps out directly with the Allant [

Onyx Vesper MTB CL MS 142/12 Thru-bolt Rear Hub

SKU: 102654

onyxrp.com

Thanks for the info on the Onyx hub!