I finally took my ebike for a test ride.

[gromike]

Yes, for the riding you do.
You ain't lived until you have experienced a bidirectional throttle.

 

[PCeBiker]

You ain't lived until you have experienced a bidirectional throttle.

I've thought about regen, but the roads are completely flat around here, and I rarely use my brakes.

I can ride up to ½ hour straight without touching the brakes or handlebars.
Even the Grin guy says the best you can hope for is about a 10% return.

I've thought about welding my clutch, but adding a mid-drive is more funner.

 

[6zfshdb]

You could add a third motor with a front wheel hub drive.

I considered using a front wheel hub as a second motor on my rear hub bike. It would act as a spare, but I'd do it mostly for something to cobble on.

 

[Gionnirocket]

You could mount the front hub motor so that it spins in the opposite direction... Now that'll give you some braking!

 

[PedalUma]

I went for a 40 km ride today, and had my first real test ride.

It worked Awesome !!
It was Super Slick the way the motors worked together.

I rode out of town on the hub-drive to a gravel road with no traffic, turned off the hub-drive and turned on the mid-drive.


PAS 1 was Really powered down and full throttle was maxed at an amp or so, then I rattled to PAS modes 9 with 18 amps.

It felt like I was going faster than 32 kph, then I realized that I can turn on the hub-drive and use its speedometer.

Yeah, I was speeding with the top speed up over 40 kph depending on what the wind was doing.
The motor got its 18 amps and went whatever speed it could go using constant power.
The gear choice on the freewheel didn't seem to affect the top speed too much.

The newly added brake switches were working great, but I realized that I didn't want to use them like a clutch to shift gears, because the chain line stops moving the instant the switch activates.
I could pedal at that point to shift gears, but all I need to do is back off the throttle to take the pressure off the chain instead.

Then I started using both motors at once.
I locked my hub-drive throttle and started up the throttle on the mid-drive.
As the mid-drive added amps, the hub-drive lost the same number of amps.
The combined total amps used stayed the same (except for wind gusts, but they went up or down together)

Then, as the mid-drive started to speed (32 kph) the power backed off to zero on the hub-drive, and the mid-drive got a full 18 amps alone to go as fast as it could.

I also started off from a stop in top gear, and it was fine in PAS1 then I held the throttle full and tapped the PAS up to gradually add power as it got going.

Everything works Great and it feels intuitive and ergonomic.

I wanted to ride both motors no-hands, but I couldn't lock the mid-drive throttle, so I'm doing that next.
I'm going to install the speed sensor, so the mid-drive will power down at 32 kph.
Then I won't have to look to see if I'm speeding.


@PedalUma
There's No Way I'm removing chain guard !!
I'm not pedaling but my pant cuff is constantly rubbing on the spinning chain guard.

If that wasn't there, my pant cuff would fed into the spinning chain wheel.

@Gionnirocket is there a better option for a chain guard?
Maybe an alloy version?

I guess the plastic one is more than adequate to keep my from being fed into a 750 watt meat grinder?

The answer is automotive split-sleeve loom or corrugated tubing as a full chain guard.

 

[PedalUma]

I have a Sr. friend with a huge eTrike. We put in Tanus in his 4.5" 26 rim front tire. He was thinking that it keeps losing air. Really what is happening is that the Tanus is compressing. It starts at about an inch thick but will eventually compress to the thickness of a dime.

 

[PCeBiker]

The answer is automotive split-sleeve loom or corrugated tubing as a full chain guard.

There's plenty of things to use as a chain guard, including an actual chain guard like @RunForTheHills posted,..


The issue for me is installing it.

Do you have any experience installing a chain guard on a BBS02B and a full suspension frame?

How the hell am I supposed to mount sleeve loom or corrugated tubing?

 

[PCeBiker]

I have a Sr. friend with a huge eTrike. We put in Tanus in his 4.5" 26 rim front tire. He was thinking that it keeps losing air. Really what is happening is that the Tanus is compressing. It starts at about an inch thick but will eventually compress to the thickness of a dime.

I know all about that.
I've got Numerous posts and complaints about Tannus.


There's no Tannus on my new ebike.

I will say one good thing about Tannus.
My first ebike (26"X4") has Tannus inserts, Mr Tuffy tire liners, and Flat-Out.

Apparently the tire liners will eventually wear through the innertube at the end of the overlap.
The edge should be chamfered so the liner doesn't dig into the innertube, eventually causing a flat.

I installed the tire liners between the tire and the Tannus, so my tube was protected and my Tannus got chewed up instead.

I've got 5-6 thousand km on those wheels with No flats.

I rode on broken glass, needles and nails on purpose to see if I'd get a flat. (close to home so I could push it home if I had to.)

 

[PCeBiker]

I bought some stuff today,..







I took some measurements of the hex bolts that came with my motor kit and bought grade 12.9 hardened steel 5 mm hex bolts, 16 mm long to mount my two chainrings on top of each other.

I thought it would be smart to buy washers and lock washers for the bolts as well.

 

[PCeBiker]

HOLY SHịT !!!

I had my display unplugged and my programming cable plugged in, getting ready to check my settings.

I realized that I hadn't checked to see if my 46t chain would work for first gear with my 52t chainring.

It was in 7th gear, so I leaned the bike over on the kickstand to get the wheel off the ground and started cranking the pedal to work the derailleur into low gear.
I can go up one gear at a time by pushing the shifter button then cranking the pedal.
(I can go in to high gear all at once with repeated presses)


As I was changing from 5th to to 4th gear, the Damn Mid-Drive Powered Up !!??
WTF !!???

The Fricken Display wasn't plugged in, and neither was my smartphone.


So to make sure that I'd remember the incident, I did it a few more times and stopped at 3rd gear, and unplugged both batteries.
Then I cranked the pedals again to make sure it was dead.

 

[PCeBiker]

I realized that I hadn't checked to see if my 46t chain would work for first gear with my 52t chainring.

So my original 46t chain is not long enough to go into 1st gear,..

Second gear is fine though,..

So now I need to reinstall my 44t deep dish Bling to see if my original 46t chain is too long for 7th gear.

I'm gunna wait for my new bolts and washers to arrive, before I take it apart and break something again.

 

[Gionnirocket]

You're dangerous on the dance floor!

 

[PCeBiker]

https://velo-orange.com/products/vo...eQ66OAiiiKUYtmoTu_wMdQ8C-Bpow_pl-3eVDdqW9HyuM

I took another look at my e-bike and it looks like that fender might fit my e-bike?

It looks like it mounts around the bottom bracket like a Big washer?
I might have enough clearance with my swingarm?

The bracket on the other end of the fender would need to be mounted creatively with a spring or something, because my swingarm moves.

Meanwhile, the plastic chain guard is working, but it's a little warped now.

 

[PCeBiker]

Yeah, it's up to me to mesh the motors gently.

My biggest problem will probably be trying not to Slam the pawls in my freewheel

I was noticing a "clack" every time I touched the throttle, and the display was showing 2-3 amps in every PAS mode even with everything turned Way down.


So I messed with my settings and realized I needed to turn down my "start current" (which I think overrides the PAS and throttle settings?), and I had to turn down my initial maximum PAS speeds.

I came up with this for settings,..

Now the motor powers up Real slow with no freewheel "clack", then I should be able lock the throttle and rattle through the 9 PAS modes to increase my speed and power.


I wanted to try to make sure PAS doesn't kick in on me, so I chose a 12 pulse PAS sensor with 20 pulses before the power engages, so one and a half crank rotations.
I also chose 1 amp for PAS mode 0 so my throttle is active but hopefully PAS is turned off?


And I chose stop decay 0ms incase my pant leg gets caught in the chain.
I want the power to cut the instant I stop pedaling so I don't cut my foot clean off.

And my general settings,..

@Gionnirocket

My "80%" power setting seems to apply to the maximum power of the motor. (25 amps)
I set my power to 18 amps, so I think that's what the "80%" is referring to?

I still don't really know what the RPM of the motor is?

I think that I might have to do some gear tooth, inch foot, torque, RPM calculations to figure out what the actual motor RPM is?

I should be able to reach the maximum RPM of the motor with the gearing I've got, so that should allow me to calculate maximum RPMS?

@6zfshdb @harryS @Gionnirocket @PedalUma @RunForTheHills @anybody


Is there any way to "hook up a Tachometer" to my ebike?

I can't see any option for it?
I don't care about my cadence, it's my motors cadence that I'm interested in.
I'd like to keep it at it's most efficient 80% operating RPMs.

 

[6zfshdb]

Is there any way to "hook up a Tachometer" to my ebike?

I can't see any option for it?
I don't care about my cadence, it's my motors cadence that I'm interested in.
I'd like to keep it at it's most efficient 80% operating RPMs.

If you can access the motor phase wiring, usually blue, green & yellow on a Bafang motor, you could use a digital pulse tachometer such as this one:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/364494740622

Tap one of the phase wires, connect it to the "signal in" lead and ground the "signal" lead.
This should generate a pulse for each motor revolution.

Keep in mind, this is an off the cuff idea that is loaded with possible problems. Voltage compatibility is one, and buck converters might be necessary.
Connecting the gauge to a phase wire might also alter it's effect on the motor circuit depending on the characteristics of the internal gauge impedance.
There isn't much info available for this particular gauge, but there are many others available.

An interesting idea though.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Though it would be an interesting cobble, personally I wouldn't bother complicating things with a tach. With an electric motor it's more important to monitor current... at least in this application. For reference, the published guesstimate of max RPM is 140
Yes your % of current set on the Levels page is of your setting of the Current Limit on the General Page. So that's a % of the 18a you now set. You can safely keep your Current Limit set to 20 or even 22 and temper with the PAS settings. My experience tells me most things are very dependable when used around at 80% of their max rating.

 

[PCeBiker]

If you can access the motor phase wiring, usually blue, green & yellow on a Bafang motor, you could use a digital pulse tachometer such as this one:

I was sorta thinking about that, but it would require me to open up my motor, and I don't wanna get that carried away.

I figure that I shouldn't need to tap the wire directly.
I should be able to simply put a tiny coil around one of the phase wires to induce a pulse for every revolution of the motor, but that too involves opening up my motor.

Though it would be an interesting cobble, personally I wouldn't bother complicating things with a tach.

Yeah, I'm not gunna bother.
I just want to get an idea of what my motors RPMs are.

With an electric motor it's more important to monitor current... at least in this application.

Yeah, that's my main interest.
I actually switched from power (watts) to current (amps) on all my displays, because I don't really care about the power or voltage.
It's always the amps that heat up a motor, and drain my batteries.

I found out that my Voltbike Outback does actually have a 32 kph maximum speed based on RPMs per Volt.

My maximum speed starts to drop below 32 kph just before my battery shuts down at ~40 Volts.

So, my Voltbike will go ~43 kph with a fully charged battery, then slow down to 32 kph just before the battery dies.

I'm assuming that's because of the "maximum rpms per volt" thing?
It is a hub motor, so there's no gearing to consider.

For reference, the published guesstimate of max RPM is 140

OK, that's good to know .

Yes your % of current set on the Levels page is of your setting of the Current Limit on the General Page. So that's a % of the 18a you now set.

That's what I was figuring, but I can't seem to find a way to translate that into motor rpms?

You can safely keep your Current Limit set to 20 or even 22 and temper with the PAS settings.

I'm just gunna keep it at 18 amps.
It's kinda the Canadian limit (500 Watts continuous, 750 Watts instantaneous), and I have no need for more.

If I do, I should be able to pull over and crank it up if I'm off-roading and climbing hills or trees or doing wheelies or burnouts or something?

I'm not sure yet if I can crank it up using my display, or if I have to use the programming cable?

My experience tells me most things are very dependable when used around at 80% of their max rating.

That's pretty much what I'm aiming for, but I still suffer from lingering range anxiety that I just can't seem to shake.

I'm aiming for the most efficient motor, not the most powerful.

So even though I'm neutering my motor to 18 amps, I also want to conserve Every Single Electron that I can, and operate my motor at a consistent 80% rpm regardless of the power draw.

The only time I've actually used 18 amps continuous on my hub motor was when I was plowing into a 20 mph headwind.

So now I can add another 18 amps continuous into my mid-drive, that's geared for going 32 kph so I should be able to go chase the next 🌪when it blows through town.

 

[Gionnirocket]

You can't convert amps to rpm.
The load varies greatly, thus current is ever changing. Even knowing no load RPM for each PAS will be useless information.
More important than high spinning which the motor appreciates... Is bogging it down with high current/load at a low RPM