Zen Photon Ultra - limited version (Bafang Ultra, Rohloff Speed hub, Gates belt drive)

[smorgasbord]

First, thanks for the great reference on how to tune the m620! I ask because the new Ultras offer either a Road or Off Road version and other than 750w vs 1000w, and the accompanying change in torque, there is little data on what else changes. I did order the Ultra in the Road version, but many of my friends up in Idaho ride off road versions from other companies.

Can you give pointers or provide some information on "order the Ultra in the Road version?"

AFAIK, there's not a Road vs Off-Road version of the motor itself, but you can choose different sets of 5 PAS settings that some displays show as "Road" vs. "Off-Road" - others "Sport" vs. "Eco"

EDIT: I see you said "new Ultras" so I'm assuming those are CANBus based, which might have some improvements but unfortunately owner tuning is not (yet) possible beyond a few high-level settings.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

I had totally forgotten about gear inches and focused on a comparison of cadences required to attain 16mph. That is the speed we typically try to maintain on trips longer than 20 miles (over relatively flat or gently rolling hills). I was very pleased to find that the Ultra was very comparable to my unpowered gravel bike. I only looked at 11-14. After looking at the lower gears I was convinced that with the bike programmed in the Road mode I would have no issues climbing some of the steeper grades, in fact I dont expect to ever get below gear 4 or 5.

In the end, it's all about cadence for me, too. My knees pretty much demand a cadence of 85±5 RPM, regardless of ground speed or pedal force.

Handy rule of thumb:
V = 0.003 C G = 3 C G / 1000,

where V = ground speed in MPH, C = cadence in RPM, and G = selected gear in gear-inches.

At 85 RPM, the Rohloff's top and bottom gears would have me at 26 and 5 mph — perfect for my local mix of hills and flats.

 

[Cybersnow]

I usually ride with my wife who‘s cadence typically is about 75. This is just about perfect for R11 which puts me just under 16 mph. I will post actual speeds after I have the bike and have it out on the road. Oh, is anyone monitoring their heart rate while riding? I used to run and ride my non eBike according to my heart rate and am considering doing that on the Ultra.

 

[Gionnirocket]

I usually ride with my wife who‘s cadence typically is about 75. This is just about perfect for R11 which puts me just under 16 mph.

I think you guys are getting a little too cerebral.
It's well established that the Rohloff has a very wide gear range suitable for all but perhaps the most unique situations.
Now just enjoy the ride. . .

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Someone posted this on the Rohloff International Group
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I am extremely satisfied with my custom-built foldable Azub Origami with Rohloff gear in the rear hub and front chainrings 53-39. Now I can ride up on extremely steep hills. Worth every penny! It is my favorite two-wheeler! Now I’m looking forward to many long-distance rides.

 

[Cybersnow]

Do all of the Photon Ultras come with the front basket? My wife had a RAD bike for a while but it was too big for her. One thing that was nice about the bike is that you could buy a water bottle holder that used the same screw pattern as the basket. The water bottles were on each side just under the handle bars.

 

[Cybersnow]

What type of tube (or tubeless?) is included with the bike? I am assuming that it might be a presta valve type. Is it possible to get schrader tubes?

 

[Gionnirocket]

What type of tube (or tubeless?) is included with the bike? I am assuming that it might be a presta valve type. Is it possible to get schrader tubes?

In the photo it looks to be Presta.
The hole in the rim is typically smaller for Presta so it's not just swapping out a tube and the rim would need to be drilled out... as the Rohloff is in the equation it's a whole_latta work to swap out the rim.
If they are Presta maybe try living with them for a while...but yeah I totally understand, I have no need for them either.

 

[Cybersnow]

Even though I ordered the upgraded tire, I am assuming that they don’t come slimed. From a long ride perspective I am a slime fan. I know you can find presta to schrader adapters but sliming and maintaining prestas can be a pain.

 

[Cybersnow]

The Ultra comes with a Bafang 1000watt M620. Is it the CAN version which cannot be adjusted other than a few settings like wheel diameter and max speed? If so how do we get an off road version as the CAN version is set at 750 watts? Is it possible to get a non CAN version?

 

[Gionnirocket]

The Ultra comes with a Bafang 1000watt M620. Is it the CAN version which cannot be adjusted other than a few settings like wheel diameter and max speed? If so how do we get an off road version as the CAN version is set at 750 watts? Is it possible to get a non CAN version?

Where are you getting this info from?
Earlier in this thread Zen asked for tuning input from the EBR community.
End-user Tuning is only possible with the UART version.

 

[Cybersnow]

Where are you getting this info from?
Earlier in this thread Zen asked for tuning input from the EBR community.
End-user Tuning is only possible with the UART version.

I asked the question as I have read that there is a CAN version of the M620. Since this bike is assembled in Canada there is a chance that they are using the Canada (CAN) version. In addition I read on a bafang website that the new displays and motors allow the rider to switch from road to off road and back on the display by entering a special code to unlock a number of options without connecting a lap top. Kriti has said to me that she was not sure if they could send an off road version to the US. Consequently I am a little confused as to which motor is being installed and what options are available on the new Ultra. I talked to Ravi yesterday and he told me he has a meeting scheduled with Bafang today. Hopefully this will clear it all up,

 

[Gionnirocket]

Well they offered the 1000w version in this thread and their market is Canada and USA.
If they can't send it to the US... I don't know where they would be able to.
Best to hold tight and get answers directly from Zen as no one here will have better information.
Being assembled in Canada has no bearing on whether or not the motor controller uses the CANBUS or UART communication protocol.

 

[Cybersnow]

Well they offered the 1000w version in this thread and their market is Canada and USA.
If they can't send it to the US... I don't know where they would be able to.
Best to hold tight and get answers directly from Zen as no one here will have better information.
Being assembled in Canada has no bearing on whether or not the motor controller uses the CANBUS or UART communication protocol.

Is that the CAN version (CANBUS) I am reading about? I am sure Ravi will figure it out and let us know!

 

[Gionnirocket]

Yes CAN is short for CANBUS.
CANBUS and UART are controller communication protocols.
UART is older less sophisticated but allows for end user tuning.
Here you can see the purchase options for a bare motor.

Bafang Ultra Motor M620 /G510 kit 1000W 48V 52V -Greenbikekit.com BBS, ebike batteries, Bafang M620, Bafang M600, Bafang M500, Bafang M510, KT controller with display-GreenBikeKit.com

Bafang Ultra Motor M620 /G510 kit 1000W 48V 52V. If you are looking for high power motor for your ebike, the Bafang Ultra motor is suitable for you.

www.greenbikekit.com

 

[Cybersnow]

Yes CAN is short for CANBUS.
CANBUS and UART are controller communication protocols.
UART is older less sophisticated but allows for end user tuning.
Here you can see the purchase options for a bare motor.

Bafang Ultra Motor M620 /G510 kit 1000W 48V 52V -Greenbikekit.com BBS, ebike batteries, Bafang M620, Bafang M600, Bafang M500, Bafang M510, KT controller with display-GreenBikeKit.com

Bafang Ultra Motor M620 /G510 kit 1000W 48V 52V. If you are looking for high power motor for your ebike, the Bafang Ultra motor is suitable for you.

www.greenbikekit.com

I am familiar with most of these parts but what is a motor hanger!

 

[Gionnirocket]

I am familiar with most of these parts but what is a motor hanger!

It's the piece that gets welded into the frame in place of a bottom bracket. Basically the motor mount.

 

[Cybersnow]

It's the piece that gets welded into the frame in place of a bottom bracket. Basically the motor mount.

So is that something you would use if your frame was not configured for the M620?

 

[Gionnirocket]

So is that something you would use if your frame was not configured for the M620?

It's something a frame builder would use to fit the motor to a frame. It needs to be welded in place and saves them the work of proper fitment and bolt hole placement.
Not something that the average end user would ever need.

 

[Cybersnow]

Got it!