Why do the top manufacturers embrace 36 volt/ 250 watt power systems?

Rocky Mountain bikes are top shelf. And the company is not evil like Specialized. An industry friend was enthusiastically showing me these a couple of days ago. They are a great bang for the buck and will out preform $7500 bikes from folks such as Santa Cruz. Really about 100Nm is the upper limit for bike components to hold up anyway such as a performance 11-speed or 12-speed. So 108 is a good upper limit. Because the motor runs the idler you can use any MTB drivetrain. It also helps with the chainline.
Over on EMTB it seems the go to for reliability is a tighter 10 speed Deore cassette (11-36) rather than the 11 or 12 speed with a dinner plate low gear.
 
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Just bought a Rocky Mountain eMtb. The Altitude A50. It has 48v 720 wh battery and the Dyname 4.0 drive system which is 250 W nominal but extremely torquey peaking at 700 w and 108 nm of torque at highest assist. I’m coming off a Bafang Ultra and Tern with Bafang 400. This is an amazing bike. It climbs our mountains really well. I’m blown away really. And my gimpy knee could not be happier View attachment 152921
It climbs very nearly as well as the very much heavier Ultra.

And when I say Mountains ….
Very nice bike.
 
Thanks for all the informative posts here. Verdict is in for me; I would rather have a bike with the lighter 250w/36v pedelec system and get a workout (sort of) rather than the higher watt/voltage bikes which seem more like electric scooters than bicycles. I have a gas-powered Max-scooter that is plenty fast if I don't want to work. This opens up the options of getting a much better drive train and much lighter bike which is a win-win in my view. Happy peddling everyone!
And then I found the Dost Kope which combines 48v/24Ah battery and 750w/1000w mid-drive performance with high quality components and design as well as an upright stance built for comfort (and free shipping to Hawaii!). So why the change of mind? With the higher power I still have the option of working as hard as I want (as with a 36v/250w system) but also the extra assist I need for the steeper hills and on the days when the trades blow 20-30 mph. After test riding the Turbo Vado 4.0 and the Alante 7s, both with Bosch 36v/250w systems, I realized I would need the extra power sometimes. At at 6'0" and 225lb (and 58 years old), I am OK with that.
 

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Thanks for all the informative posts here. Verdict is in for me; I would rather have a bike with the lighter 250w/36v pedelec system and get a workout (sort of) rather than the higher watt/voltage bikes which seem more like electric scooters than bicycles. I have a gas-powered Max-scooter that is plenty fast if I don't want to work. This opens up the options of getting a much better drive train and much lighter bike which is a win-win in my view. Happy peddling everyone!
FWIW, just because you have a high power ebike doesnt mean you dont have to work out. The 'only' reason I stress my human power levels is to emphasize that I am actually getting a workout. Im not really into posting ride stats, only doing so for those who get all excited about them. I get the same heart rate on acoustic bikes, 250W/36V bikes and my 1500W/52V bikes, the only difference is the speed. I can ride my high power ebikes slower and do all the time. As Pedaluma has mentioned, 350W is a sweet spot and usually the max(roughly) I use for most of my riding, yet the power ifs there if/when I want it. Sometimes its just fun to ride it like you stole it.

I dont feel that the higher power bikes are 'riding me' when at higher levels. I guess if someone had never ridden motorcycles and was not highly skilled on a bike, that would be their perspective. For those, a restricted Vado SL would be a great choice as would living in the highly regulated european market.

All that being said, the 36V/250W bikes from the big manufacturers are all wonderful (well integrated, good components and warranties). They are up there in price but nothing is cheap these days. I love all my 36V euro bikes including my newly aquired 2022 turbo levo. I did a double ride yesterday (32 miles on a 52V bike out in windy open prairie conditions and 16 miles on the Levo (about 70% singletrack...anything but boring))

Since your original post was asking about battling the wind, the Origin 8 strongbow I mentioned should be considered. Being in the aero position makes a huge difference at speed and would make a great addition to your stromer (I love stromers!). That would be a great first step
 
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FWIW, just because you have a high power ebike doesnt mean you dont have to work out. The 'only' reason I stress my human power levels is to emphasize that I am actually getting a workout. I get the same heart rate on acoustic bikes, 250W/36V bikes and my 1500W/52V bikes, the only difference is the speed. I can ride my high power ebikes slower and do all the time. As Pedaluma has mentioned, 350W is a sweet spot and usually the max(roughly) I use for most of my riding, yet the power ifs there if/when I want it. Sometimes its just fun to ride it like you stole it.

I dont feel that the higher power bikes are 'riding me' when at higher levels. I guess if someone had never ridden motorcycles and was not highly skilled on a bike, that would be their perspective. For those, a restricted Vado SL would be a great choice as would living in the highly regulated european market.

All that being said, the 36V/250W bikes from the big manufacturers are all wonderful (well integrated, good components and warranties). They are up there in price but nothing is cheap these days. I love all my 36V euro bikes including my newly aquired 2022 turbo levo. I did a double ride yesterday (32 miles on a 52V bike out in windy open prairie conditions and 16 miles on the Levo (about 70% singletrack...anything but boring))

Since your original post was asking about battling the wind, the Origin 8 strongbow I mentioned should be considered. Being in the aero position makes a huge difference at speed.
Of course, I always get a good workout. I bought a 48v/750w bike so you have the extra assist if you need it. With modern, efficient LI batteries the weight trade off is no big deal, and of course, all you have to do is lower the assist level and you're working as hard as you want. With the 36v/250w... that's all the assist you're going to get. So, for larger riders like me and with the windy terrain we have here, more power means more options. Also, after cycling for over 35 years (15 years ebiking) I have learned I would much rather be in a comfortable upright position than an aggressive (more aerodynamic) rider forward position; so yet another reason to have more power. I have zero interest in an electric scooter; I want to pedal and add my wattage to the power train and get exercise. With the current standard 36v/250w I could never ride the thing in the wind or on steep hills with my large body so as a result the bike would collect dust in the garage.
 
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Of course, I always get a good workout. I bought a 48v/750w bike so you have the extra assist if you need it. With modern, efficient LI batteries the weight trade off is no big deal, and of course, all you have to do is lower the assist level and you're working as hard as you want. With the 36v/250w... that's all the assist you're going to get. So, for larger riders like me and with the windy terrain we have here, more power means more options. Also, after cycling for over 35 years (15 years ebiking) I have learned I would much rather be in a comfortable upright position than an aggressive (more aerodynamic) rider forward position; so yet another reason to have more power. I have zero interest in an electric scooter; I want to pedal and add my wattage to the power train and get exercise. With the current standard 36v/250w I could never ride the thing in the wind or on steep hills with my large body so as a result the bike would collect dust in the garage.
I think one think to state which certain individuals seem incapable of expressing without insulting everyone (like I am one to talk :D )is that the lower power bikes like the specialized SL models are great if you want to just ride with stronger non-ebike riders. I never understood why someone would want an SL bike until PDoz on the eMTB topics expressed that and it made total sense.

I did almost go down this path in 2019 in purchasing a Focus Jam 2 (Shimano motor with reduced output although not as low as the SL models and 350wh battery (range extenders were available)). I decided to back out of that purchase luckily just before focus left the US market.
 
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I think the core problem here is that you care more about watts than volts. About the only place volts would really matter is that a higher motor voltage might be a bit zippier, especially from a standing start.

A higher power mid drive (e.g. higher than 250w or so) will likely need a heavier chain, chain rings, and cassette because all of that power is going through the whole drive system.
A little faster as well, One electronic engineer I know of( Micah Toll) goes into this phenomenom,I have a new 750 watt step thru I am building I am projecting 22-23 mph top speed plenty fast for this old "Buitre",The DD 500 WATT 36 volt ones I did worked pretty well( I had the expectation of helping out with leg power on steep grades)
I'm of the view more volts = more performance. Whether or not it's needed/desired/legal is another thing.

Comparing like for like - take a 48 volt equipped ebike and throw in a 52 volt battery - come back and tell what your findings are. Plenty of evidence around to suggest a performance boost of in the order of 7.5%.

A further example is the Frey Beast running 60 volts through the Bafang Ultra motor with the appropriate controller and generating torque of 240nm compared to the standard 160nm.
That setup would tear up something for sure.
 
A little faster as well, One electronic engineer I know of( Micah Toll) goes into this phenomenom,I have a new 750 watt step thru I am building I am projecting 22-23 mph top speed plenty fast for this old "Buitre",The DD 500 WATT 36 volt ones I did worked pretty well( I had the expectation of helping out with leg power on steep grades)

That setup would tear up something for sure.
No doubt the day will come where all mid-motor ebikes will come with belt drives so manufacturers won't be paying warranty claims; and the chain will be a part of ebike history. Like a model T.
 
I think one think to state which certain individuals seem incapable of expressing without insulting everyone (like I am one to talk :D )is that the lower power bikes like the specialized SL models are great if you want to just ride with stronger non-ebike riders. I never understood why someone would want an SL bike until PDoz on the eMTB topics expressed that and it made total sense.
Posted by a person who rides as a hobby and the Rockies front wall kills the wind. If you live near Sterling, Burlington or Lamar I apologize, those are flat & windy.
There are times when I have to ride to get groceries or supplies, (no car) and the wind takes 1000 w to get my bike over 3 mph. Those times I need the 1000 W motor that have recently been outlawed. My new motor is so feeble I am considering buying a car. Drill those dinosaurs! Emit that CO2! The legislatures need the tax money!
O.P. lives in another windy area, and also rides with back vertical to prevent uncomfortable or damaged spine.
 
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Posted by a person who rides as a hobby and the Rockies front wall kills the wind. If you live near Sterling, Burlington or Lamar I apologize, those are flat & windy.
There are times when I have to ride to get groceries or supplies, (no car) and the wind takes 1000 w to get my bike over 3 mph. Those times I need the 1000 W motor that have recently been outlawed. My new motor is so feeble I am considering buying a car. Drill those dinosaurs! Emit that CO2! The legislatures need the tax money!
O.P. lives in another windy area, and also rides with back vertical to prevent uncomfortable or damaged spine.
On Maui I have never encountered any police that even check if you have a bicycle license/Registration let alone the wattage your running; literally never in 25 years here. Our last chief of police backed into a Harley with his truck and then took off; he only got caught cuz of parking lot video. He was asked to ..."retire".
 
Very Cheap to build and Super Easy to pull in lots of xcited and turn totally clueless su..ers and old coach potatos into Electric hamsters .
 
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