Why can't American companies make ebike batteries?

[Timpo]

As you know, ebike are powered by only Japanese (Panasonic) or Korean (Samsung, LG) batteries.

I did some research and Energizer and Duracell for example, only make AA size lithium batteries.
18650 batteries are pretty much beefed up size of AA batteries, exactly how hard for them to make manufacture 18650?

Interstate does have 18650 but their main target market seems like flashlight and some kind of industrial equipment.

So I did a research on Rayovac and AC Delco.. same thing, wrong size. They do not make lithium battery for 18650.

I bet a of ebike riders don't mind riding American powered ebikes.. but ebike battery industry is dominated by Japanese and Korean batteries.. have you guys ever wondered about this?

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

 

[JRA]

Making them is only part of the equation. Getting them individually tested for certification, $$$$$$$, marketed, competing against off shore established co’s think cheap AliX type and distributed, shipped legally, is a huge stumbling block.

BMZ, a major battery supplier based in Germany, has an office in the states that can build batteries here but all the above price them out of market potential mainly due to the fact that 90% plus of those interested in eBikes at this time want cheap as pricing as possible.

 

[Ian Moone]

Having worked for Spectrum Brands in Wisconsin, Manufacturer and Distributor for Rayovac and Fusion Lithium Cells, you're right. They are only tooled to produce AA, AAA, C, D, and 9Volt cells. Soon a Facility here, will be Distributing Rayovac And Energizer cells, but Not 18650's. ?

 

[Dewey]

Dakota Lithium make 36v ebike battery packs in Grand Forks, ND, using Lifepo4 chemistry, they power Hill Topper brand https://dakotalithium.com/product/dakota-lithium-36v-3-3ah-battery/?v=7516fd43adaa

 

[harryS]

Allcell in Chicago makes very good lithium batteries for all kinds of applcations, although I admit I do not know where they get their cells. Yet a soft sided battery to run an ebike was $900 from them when I looked in 2015. So I got one from Lunacyle for $500 that year.

Today, there is some debate whether Lunacycle is assembling onshore any of their batteries, although it's clear they have to buy the cells from Asia.

At some point, Tesla will be able to sell surplus 18650 type cells from its factory in Nevada. This will enable a totally US made pack. Robotics will help offset the labor issue though China will have the robots before we do.

I don't think any of us appreciate what kinds of environmental hazards might come from a lithium facility. I worked in a silicon facility 30 years ago. "Hey, where's Chin?" "Oh his code 12 was too high, so he's going to stay out of the lab for six weeks" Code 12 was the Arsenic level in your blood. Chin ran the chemical vapor depostion machine that deposited a film of arsenic glass on our chips.

As they say, just be careful what you wish for.

 

[AHicks]

A123 Batteries are a Chinese owned company/made in the USA battery. They have an outstanding reputation when it comes to radio control, but they tend to be expensive, when you can find somebody willing to sell individual cells. A couple of links:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A123_Systems

https://www.batteryspace.com/a123-l...MIz5rikKmS4gIVQ7nACh05Zw9tEAQYASABEgLpyPD_BwE

 

[Ken M]

Maybe when the Panasonic/Tesla Giga Factory achieves excess capacity someone could make great ebike battery here in the US. I don't think anyone planning to produce packs here should consider the 18650 cell - the 21700 will quickly become the cell of choice for serious applications.

I would like to see someone figure out a way to produce packs without welding so any pack can be taken apart and have each cell tested if there is a problem. I understand that the challenges of not having shock-n-vib opens but I would think with the appropriate contact preload that could be solved.

 

[Ian Moone]

So far I haven't seen any ebikes with 21700 cells but if that's where industry is heading to, American battery companies can produce 21700 batteries as well.
Anyways, because they can produce AA batteries just fine, I was wondering why they won't produce ebike batteries.

American battery companies need to be Educated on what the Consumer needs in the 21st Century, not the 20th. They focus on flashlight and Hearing aid batteries, when they Should be exploring the Newer uses for Renewable energy. Such as Ebikes. ?

 

[Ebiker01]

Tesla with the Gigafactory in Nevada is making ebike batteries for a few years now, but only uses them for their cars , Powerwalls , and a distant 3rd.-their solar roofs.
All model 3’s have 21700 cells , S and X have the 18650 cells.


Is a massive hunger worldwide for a good supply chain of Li Ion cells. Opening a lithium mine on Us soil is one solution.

“ The United States produced only about 2 percent of the world's lithium last year, from a single mine in Nevada. But it has around 13 percent of the world's identified resources, according to the U.S. Geological Survey”

 

[DDBB]

Sure would like to see e-bike battery prices come down, regardless of who make them

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Tesla with the Gigafactory in Nevada is making ebike batteries for a few years now, but only uses them for their cars , Powerwalls , and a distant 3rd.-their solar roofs.
All model 3’s have 21700 cells , S and X have the 18650 cells.


Is a massive hunger worldwide for a good supply chain of Li Ion cells. Opening a lithium mine on Us soil is one solution.

“ The United States produced only about 2 percent of the world's lithium last year, from a single mine in Nevada. But it has around 13 percent of the world's identified resources, according to the U.S. Geological Survey”

There are a couple of reasons why that is so.

The first, and a big one, is that hard-rock mining has a horribly tiny profit margin, takes an enormous capital investment, has a long lead time, and is very high-risk. That makes it a sucker bet. You'd be better off investing that money in your cousin's harebrained idea to deliver Thai food via drone.

The second is that land itself is valuable, and land that contains lithium underground is probably more valuable to develop for vacation homes, golf courses, and bike paths.

The upshot is that only a crazy or deluded investor in the United States would put up the capital to develop a lithium mine.

 

[harryS]

Read the history of the only US mine that went digging for magnets, There were no environmental rules when they started and by the end of the last century they had created some very radioactive lakes around the mine near Mountain Pass, California. Got shut down. Tried to clean up. Molycorp was the last operator. Couldn't compete with Chinese miners. Went bankrupt and a new group bought it.

China controls the price/supply of magnets at the moment.

 

[AZOldTech]

As you know, ebike are powered by only Japanese (Panasonic) or Korean (Samsung, LG) batteries.

I did some research and Energizer and Duracell for example, only make AA size lithium batteries.
18650 batteries are pretty much beefed up size of AA batteries, exactly how hard for them to make manufacture 18650?

Interstate does have 18650 but their main target market seems like flashlight and some kind of industrial equipment.

So I did a research on Rayovac and AC Delco.. same thing, wrong size. They do not make lithium battery for 18650.

I bet a of ebike riders don't mind riding American powered ebikes.. but ebike battery industry is dominated by Japanese and Korean batteries.. have you guys ever wondered about this?

Maybe you should convince Tesla to get into the e-bike business. Cause there have plenty of US made 18650 cells in that US gigafactory of theirs but they are all destined for their cars and powerwalls... Tesla/Panasonic 18650 cells are some of the best in the business...

 

[FlatSix911]

Maybe you should convince Tesla to get into the e-bike business.

Cause there have plenty of US made 18650 cells in that US gigafactory of theirs but they are all destined for their cars and powerwalls... Tesla/Panasonic 18650 cells are some of the best in the business...

As a shareholder, I have been asking Tesla for years to produce a market-leading EBike... supporting their Sustainable Transportation mission statement.

Elon are you listening?

 

[rich c]

Nope, never thought about it. I just assume all manufacturing will be done off shore. Most Americans just aspire to eat and drink, so just need vehicles to get to food sources and bars. Everything else will be shipped in.

 

[Ebiker01]

As a shareholder, I have been asking Tesla for years to produce a market-leading EBike... supporting their Sustainable Transportation mission statement.

Elon are you listening?

With the stock being @1500$ i doubt they will ever use their cells for an ebike. They Need them for the model Y and then for the Semi + Cybertruk.
The contracts for lithium are very hard fought right now.

And also, a lot of us here on ebr know about ebikes and batteries in much more depth then many people workong at those bike companies.


That's why there won't be any rush to change from 18650 cells or the regular 500wh pack.
Greyp , Olympia , BH already have 21700's in their packs. The avg. Joe knows only Trek, Specialized and Giant.

 

[Xssve]

Aren't most batteries now like c's or d's in parallel?

 

[Xssve]

I want to use ryobi 40v's for example, i can maybe add them modularly. The 18v's are something like 6 c's shrink wrapped and wired, and Prolly Chin or Nippon at that, but bike motors are all 24, 36, or 48v it seems.

36v any good?

Never used an Ebike before but age hath taken its toll.

 

[Xssve]

Ah - liths have more than double the voltage. More like 3.6v.

Www.powerstream.com

 

[harryS]

I want to use ryobi 40v's for example, i can maybe add them modularly. The 18v's are something like 6 c's shrink wrapped and wired, and Prolly Chin or Nippon at that, but bike motors are all 24, 36, or 48v it seems.

36v any good?

Never used an Ebike before but age hath taken its toll.

I've used my Ryobi weedwhacker battery to putter around on my 36V ebikes. They call them 40V, but inside there are 20 cells, arranged as a 10x2 array. The 2AH model that came with my weedwhacker will run my 250W bike about 10 miles. The 4.5AH has more capacity, but will not handle as much current and will shut down on when I use the throttle. .

I read where some people have success with the Ego tool packs, which are 52V. From what I've seen, Ryobis won't have enough current to run a bigger ebike, Ryobi's are great for their drills and lawn gear, not ebikes. You could hook two in parallel to increase the AH, and also the current, but there are some issues, too long to discuss here. Unless you have a bunch of these already, they are not a good choice.

I only ran the Ryobis because I already had them, and it was good for a chuckle to ride an ebike for a short distance on a $50 battery.



Lithium cells, if left to do what they want, will eventually catch on fire, There is a whole bunch of robust electronics inside a Ryobi to keep it from burning down your house. You definitely do not want to take batteries apart to make larger ones, unless you know the theory and also the risks.