Which eMTB to consider? (bought a Levo Comp)

IMHO (and it is worth every cent you have paid for it!;)) I don't think that Haibike is going anywhere soon. If anything they are likely seeing an uptick in the previously pretty stale (as compared to Europe) U.S. e-bike market. Plus it is nice to see that they are adding 2020 model bikes to their U.S. product line.

BH/Easymotion may be a different issue. But for the price and spec, I still happily purchased a BH bike a couple of months ago, even with the potential writing on the wall. Biggest issue to me is the pedal assist system's warranty, and Brose should cover anything I need there.

I've even gone so far as to purchase a NOS bike when the company has already left the U.S. market (Grace MX II Trail). I knew that going into the purchase, it gave me a slight pause, but I pulled the trigger anyway. What was the result? It is one of my favorite e-bikes and I wish I had 2 of them.

Catastrophic failures of things like frames are not typical, when mere mortals are riding these bikes (as opposed to pro downhillers, jumpers, etc.) Drivetrain/braking/chassis/suspension components are pretty standard and always available stuff. Big name power assist companies (Bosch, Brose, Yamaha, Shimano, etc.) have a presence in the U.S. and aren't going anywhere. So the risk is rather minimal. You may not be able to get warranty service from the original bike manufacturer but you will likely be able to get parts repaired or replaced for a reasonable charge so your bike won't wind up becoming a boat anchor due to a failure.
 
PDoz said:
Btw, have a read of this thread

Un-Official Clydesdale Thread

I wanted to create a place here for Clydesdale riders to post about their collective experiences with EMTB ownership. I came to this forum because I want to find the right EMTB for me being a a borderline super Clyde at 6’5” 255lbs (196cm/115kg) with out riding kit. How are other the other...
www.emtbforums.com www.emtbforums.com
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I have not yet read that thread. I can definitely identify with the clydesdale categorization.
 
sorry, it seems some of my posts got out of order. there's a posting time limiter here and I had some responses get stuck, and then my browser reloaded.

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wkearney99 said:
I've never run fat tires nor as large as 29, so I don't have enough experience with them to know to chose or skip them.

Yikes some of these get pretty spendy! I've got the budget for that sort of range, but would gladly pay less. But I know the rule of three "Good, fast, cheap... pick two".

The real challenge is finding inventory locally to give things a try. I can tell almost immediately if the ride position works for me.

I'm an older guy, out of shape from age/injuries, looking to get an all-rounder that leans much more heavily to the mountain bike format. Pedal assist will help offset the knees. But I've had life-long wrist pain, which is manageable if I have good hand positioning options like bar ends and such. Lots of mountain bike geometries are immediately painful to use. Some have decent gooseneck adjustability, but many lately are not only lacking in adjustments, they're not even using reasonably standard sizes to allow for accessories.

I'd prefer, of course, to have an out of the box purchase be 'ready to ride'. But realize there's undoubtedly going to be some tweaks, adjustments and hardware changes that will be necessary. Thus my shopping focus includes watching out for lack of upgrade possibilities. The good part is I'm handy and have the tools to make changes, so I'm not going to be stuck waiting in line to have simple things changed.
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"out of the box purchase be 'ready to ride"- This is a very attainable option. I also was at the stage as to which eMTB suited me best. After tons of research and many test rides at LBS around town, I purchased a ready to ride bike shipped directly to my door. I also had some limitations due to previous injuries to my backside, and wrist pain issues as well. I have found that the flexibility you have with tweaking to fit works wonders. You may also consider "bike fitting services" at your LBS. That would also be a viable option with getting the perfect fit for problem areas. I have seen many members here change out stock parts immediately after delivery to make their bike riding experience more comfortable. Most common are handlebars, seat, grips, pedals stem risers, etc. Hope you find something that fits your riding style. ;)
 
wkearney99 said:
Ok, had a chance to ride two Haibike models, an AllMtn 10.0 and an Nduro 8.5, but in the medium-sized frame (I didn't check what year these were, but imagine they're not the latest/greatest). The nduro had the Bosch setup, the allmtn had the Yamaha. Gotta say, I liked the Yamaha better, as it felt closer to regular biking. It had plenty of torque, at least for pushing me up some fairly steep slopes, and didn't come on as aggressively as my limited experience with the Levo (Brose) setup. Not arguing one vs the other, just noting my initial experience was nice with the Haibike/Yamaha setup. I liked the controls on the Yamaha better than the nduro's Bosch. But then I liked the Kiox Bosch setup on the RM Delite (just not the rest of the bike). But then I've seen varied negatives on the Kiox, so.... ugh, SO MANY VARIABLES to consider!

I preferred the riding dynamics of the mountain vs nduro. It's a subtle difference, at least to my completely untrained mind. That and the shop had the suspension properly adjusted to handle my weight, for both of them. And by 'dynamics' I'm speaking in terms of the steering response, rake, seat/crank angle and such. If there's a correct term for this, let me know. The reach was hard to gauge as both of these were smaller than I'd probably order. It's difficult doing test drives for the larger sizes.

I'd love to try a Yamaha YDX-Torc, if just to get the hardtail experience with their motor.
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I also own a Haibike 10.0 (LT) with a Yamaha PW-X drive. That was my ultimate pick after many test rides and comparisons. Many posters here have also stated the performance of the PW-X motor is very satisfying. One of the nice features of this motor is how responsive it is off the line with 80nm of torque.
Delimit the motor, and performance increases a few more notches. It would also be to your benefit to try and make some additional motor comparisons if possible.
 
bob armani said:
...I have seen many members here change out stock parts immediately after delivery to make their bike riding experience more comfortable...
Click to expand...

Guilty!

Immediately after an on-line bike order I am on a bike site or Amazon getting what will be necessary. A mirror is now a no-brainer for me after I crashed at about 20mph after losing concentration when looking over my shoulder for any overtaking cars. Many times a riser stem too, and perhaps a suspension seat post (although due to cost I sometimes wait to order that last item until I have tested out the bike on local roads).

With Amazon's current Covid performance, it is now a cr@pshoot as to whether the bike or the accessories arrive at my house first!
 
Yeah, a mirror definitely seems in order. With the motor noise I found myself at a disadvantage when traffic was near. The usual spider-sense of "CAR BACK" was thrown off because the bike I was riding was also making motor noise! It seemed like I couldn't just freewheel, ignore my own cassette noise and get a proper sense of engine/tires approaching. I'm sure I'd "get used to it" but it did immediately make me wish for a mirror of some sort. Switching to a full-face helmet would make it even more important.

Some of the mountain bikes I've been testing have had dropper seat posts, so that's an added wrinkle on the accessories front.

I'm keen to avoid factory setups that will make it difficult to customize later. Most of my past concerns were related to handlebars and seat clamps. It's aggravating finding out you can't easily swap either of them out when there's oddball diameters or other factors involved. Seat clamps that are too bulky to work with a new saddle, or a post that's unable to accommodate it (diameter too big/small). To say nothing of the water bottle mounting/access options.

These days there's a lot more choices, but I still cast a harsh eye toward things that have been hassles in the past. While trying not to let those cloud other more important factors about the bike.

My wife just shakes her head at my shopping diligence. It makes me impossible to gift shop for.
 
wkearney99 said:
Yeah, a mirror definitely seems in order. With the motor noise I found myself at a disadvantage when traffic was near. The usual spider-sense of "CAR BACK" was thrown off because the bike I was riding was also making motor noise! It seemed like I couldn't just freewheel, ignore my own cassette noise and get a proper sense of engine/tires approaching. I'm sure I'd "get used to it" but it did immediately make me wish for a mirror of some sort. Switching to a full-face helmet would make it even more important.

Some of the mountain bikes I've been testing have had dropper seat posts, so that's an added wrinkle on the accessories front.

I'm keen to avoid factory setups that will make it difficult to customize later. Most of my past concerns were related to handlebars and seat clamps. It's aggravating finding out you can't easily swap either of them out when there's oddball diameters or other factors involved. Seat clamps that are too bulky to work with a new saddle, or a post that's unable to accommodate it (diameter too big/small). To say nothing of the water bottle mounting/access options.

These days there's a lot more choices, but I still cast a harsh eye toward things that have been hassles in the past. While trying not to let those cloud other more important factors about the bike.

My wife just shakes her head at my shopping diligence. It makes me impossible to gift shop for.
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I gotta agree with your wife. You seem highly particular... :rolleyes:
 
🤣 I got my wife hooked too. She doesn't study them, she just rides. We've been riding together for thirty years now. First adventure together was to buy a pair of hybrid bikes and ride them to the local winery for a picnic. The ebikes are the third or fourth pair of bikes for us. Bikes are cheap compared to cars.

Stems and bars are either 31.8mm diameter or 35mm - one is hybrid/road and one is mtb. You just match sizes up to change them. Or switch all together - I put a 31.8 riser bar on my trance cuz it was too low.
Most dealers will change out the seat for you if you want something different.
 
wkearney99 said:
Some of the mountain bikes I've been testing have had dropper seat posts, so that's an added wrinkle on the accessories front.

I'm keen to avoid factory setups that will make it difficult to customize later. Most of my past concerns were related to handlebars and seat clamps. It's aggravating finding out you can't easily swap either of them out when there's oddball diameters or other factors involved. Seat clamps that are too bulky to work with a new saddle, or a post that's unable to accommodate it (diameter too big/small). To say nothing of the water bottle mounting/access options.

These days there's a lot more choices, but I still cast a harsh eye toward things that have been hassles in the past. While trying not to let those cloud other more important factors about the bike.

My wife just shakes her head at my shopping diligence. It makes me impossible to gift shop for.
Click to expand...

Just to be clear, most of the factory installed dropper posts will be good enough. It's only the extremely pedantic ( me) who replace perfectly functional dropper posts with longer travel / adjustable stroke and pressure droppers. You REALY want a bike that comes with one pre installed - it's a pita routing the cables internally , and VERY expensive if you decide to go wireless! BTW , if you need an extra long dropper post take a look at oneupcomponents - they seem to offer the longest drop within a given length and have the added flexibility of adjustable drop settings - eg you could but a 210 mm dropper post to replace the stock 125 mm post , then shim it back to 190 mm and insert it way down into the frame if you discover it's too long https://int.oneupcomponents.com/collections/dropper-posts/products/dropper-post-v2

Yes, there are 3 different diameter seat posts and 3 different diameter bars - but within reason it's possible to create cross bike compatibility . I have 7 bikes in the shed with 31.8 mm bars , so all their stems are interchangeable. ( 3 kids working their way up through the fleet , and my wife is 6'2" so the kids are growing FAST ) There's a couple of older bikes with the 25.4 .. bars but they're just spares for visitors to use.

Seatposts were a headache in the early days when I was cutting them down to allow kids to ride bikes that were marginally too big - I think I have 3 different diameter sawn off posts in my pile of junk...but the dropper post fixes that issue - with 150 mm adjustability at the flick of a switch , my 11 yo and I can swap bikes when his legs get tired ( I carry a suspension pump )

Just wait until you start looking at gears / chains and options between tubes / tubeless/ puncture protection / wheel sizes.......

We have:
12 sp , 29 inch all tubeless
11 sp , 27.5, tannus armour with tubes front and back
11 sp, 27.5, tannus rear but tubeless front
2x10 sp , 26 , tubes front and rear.
3x9 sp, 26, tubes f+r
8 sp internal geared hub, 27.5 , tubes f+r

Guess who gets to carry all the puncture repair equipment / chain links / tools etc on family rides.
 
byunbee said:
I gotta agree with your wife. You seem highly particular... :rolleyes:
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Well, particular, sure. I generally find doing a 'deep dive' on details is helpful when making purchases outside my normal range. No harm there other than my time/effort to get up to speed.

In my defense I try not to make the mistake of jumping into knowledgeable circles shouting broad assumptions. I know enough to know when I don't know squat. It's tedious for diehards to tolerate newbies. It's even worse if they try arguing with the veterans. So at least I'm trying to avoid being too much of a bother while on my quest for enough details to make a decision. So thanks, everyone, for your on-going patience.
 
And why this is such a great forum. Tons of knowledge here and people are happy to share it.

I came along last year and did the same thing. You are smart for starting your own thread. I have visited special interest forums around the WWW numbering in the hundreds. Each of them have a cadre of highly connected enthusiasts, as well as some nuts and quacks. Ebikes appeal to quite a broad spectrum of the population, but tend to be older bike riders, looking for a way to improve their riding experience. And everybody has some unique riding interest and thus requirements, so it pays off to learn about a variety of them, especially the ones that target your own interests. We have casual riders, hardcore commuters, fast road riders, gravel racers, mountain bikers, beach strand cruisers - they're all represented.

For the uninitiated, your friends and relatives, the first thing they say is that youre cheating, or you just push a button and that's not really 'riding'. I like to say, "You still have to pedal, but makes going up hills so much easier that it improves the whole riding experience. You go 50% faster, twice as far, and it's ten times as much fun so you do it three times as much." Then you get the deer-in-the-headlights look, or a laugh. For many the lightbulb goes on in their own head. The popularity is exploding. Some dealers are gearing up for it, others keep doing business the way they always have - they're the ones that will have fifty bikes in a showroom and ONE ebike.

What else is interesting is that since this style of bike is so relatively new compared to pedal bikes, your average bike shop probably doesn't know any more about them that you do if you've studied it at all, or have broad exposure to what's out there. Many are knowledgable about their own product, but lack any comparison knowledge. Where I find them valuable is their willingness to help you, and that they have a way to guarantee your satisfaction - so that's selection, quality, technical support, and product availability. For me it got down to choosing a dealer. We're in an area of 3M people so there are a LOT of bike shops. Out of dozens there are a few real stars in this market. The Trek stores are by far the nicest. A lot of specialty stores carry Giant, and their competitors will have Specialized. These dealers will tend to have a variety of other newer brands coming to market. Trek makes their dealers be exclusive - to get a dealership you have to only sell Trek and Electra. They also tend to have more fixed pricing, but I've found all of them are smart enough to work with you to close a sale. The good ones seem to sell a lot of bikes, vibrant, succcessful businesses. Ebikes improve their profitability, and bring in a new cadre of potential customers.

As an aside, my personal experience is having ridden bicycles for my entire life - just turning 63. I grew up in the seventies, with banana-seat bikes and drop-bar ten-speeds. Later the crossbike or highbrid - upright derailuer bikes became a hot new segment. I started riding dirtbikes from age 11, quit and started again several times, raced offroad in my younger years, raised a crop of kids, did the desert camping and riding thing for a couple of decades. But I had never ridden a mountain bike! It just never made sense to me, always having had a motor for my two wheels for offroad. We rode a LOT of forest single-track, some of the most fun riding I've ever done in my life. So getting on a eMTB for the first time last year was an absolute revelation! If I had known how much fun it was I would have caught on years ago. The ebike part of it just makes it that much better. It's refreshing when your ownership experience is magnitudes greater than your expectation. That creates excitement and enthusiasm. There seems to be quite a lot of this here.
 
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Timpo said:
WattWagons Travelanche
Carbon frame
3000W motor
$8,444 (on sale now @ $7,599) 2 year warranty
wattwagons.com

Travalanche Specifications

This is what makes the Travalanche an incredible machine. Carbon Fiber frame, Bafang Ultra, Archon X1 controller. and up to 3000W of power! Conquer terrain you dreamed about.
wattwagons.com wattwagons.com
Click to expand...

wkearney99 said:
Sure, but without one to throw a leg over for a test drive I'm not terribly inclined to go that route.
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byunbee said:
Since you're on the east coast, if you ever have a chance to take a trip near Boston, I'm sure @pushkar will be more than happy to let you test ride.
Click to expand...

The Travelanche is probably going to be my next bike. If you are close by, Pushkar might even bring the bike to you for an extended test ride. ;)

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