Which eMTB to consider? (bought a Levo Comp)

[TMH]

Most (the strong majority?) of the E-MTBs which are out and available right now use pretty standard components regarding headset, stem, seatpost diameter, bars, etc., all the stuff you might need to change if the bike's geometry is not quite right for you from the factory.

Many of the better bikes you are looking at will likely have a somewhat aggressive riding position (weight forward and on your wrists) from the factory, as that is the most effective body positioning for their intended use.

So... with an e-MTB don't be at all surprised if they aren't immediately comfortable, although this is not something which cannot be inexpensively changed, starting with a standard $15 riser stem. Plus customizing is fun!

You may also want to open your search to a trekking style e-bike. Bigger tires then a city or commuter bike, but more upright riding position as compared to an e-MTB, but nowhere near as casual or laid back as a cruiser bike. They don't all feel like an anvil when riding, and can be nearly (almost) as lively as a good e-MTB. The R&M bikes you test rode may have felt like anvils to you, but R&M bikes are well known for their ride stability and rider confidence at higher speeds and for longer distances. So what you felt was actually designed into these bikes.

But then there is the issue of finding some nearby for a test ride. That can be more of a challenge than finding local e-MTBs to ride. Haibike trekking bikes are some of the best ones to check out, if possible.

You also speak of your son riding a fatty bike. There are some awesome fatties by Haibike (both hardtail and FS) and Bulls. I think that these bikes will also immediately have a more upright/less aggressive riding position as compared to a high end e-MTB.

 

[Browneye]

I've never run fat tires nor as large as 29, so I don't have enough experience with them to know to chose or skip them.

Yikes some of these get pretty spendy! I've got the budget for that sort of range, but would gladly pay less. But I know the rule of three "Good, fast, cheap... pick two".

The real challenge is finding inventory locally to give things a try. I can tell almost immediately if the ride position works for me.

I'm an older guy, out of shape from age/injuries, looking to get an all-rounder that leans much more heavily to the mountain bike format. Pedal assist will help offset the knees. But I've had life-long wrist pain, which is manageable if I have good hand positioning options like bar ends and such. Lots of mountain bike geometries are immediately painful to use. Some have decent gooseneck adjustability, but many lately are not only lacking in adjustments, they're not even using reasonably standard sizes to allow for accessories.

I'd prefer, of course, to have an out of the box purchase be 'ready to ride'. But realize there's undoubtedly going to be some tweaks, adjustments and hardware changes that will be necessary. Thus my shopping focus includes watching out for lack of upgrade possibilities. The good part is I'm handy and have the tools to make changes, so I'm not going to be stuck waiting in line to have simple things changed.

Same boat here...same place a few months ago, turning 63 in a few days. Fifty years of dirtbikes and now too old to do it safely any longer. Getting into mountain biking is like a youth-renewal.

You might glean some valuable info on our eMTB thread over here: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/emtb-options-for-2020.32057/
We've had a lot of fun with it, and I got a new ebike out of it, very pleased. We have some astute and experienced contributors over there.

 

[wkearney99]

I agree on the 'customizing is fun' viewpoint. I've had many decades of fun doing that. Thus I've got a pretty critical eye when looking at hardware on a bike. I can see right off where something I've needed to do in the past isn't going to work. Goosenecks, ugh, those have been an issue since the days back in the 70's when I'd repurposed big-honkin' cruiser-type 3-speeds for what we now call downhill biking. And seat posts and seat clamps, the agony of crappy-ass extruded metal seat posts snapping out from under me on my 20" Mongoose (which I still have in garage rafters!). Or trying to get my Gitane's saddle to mate up with the diameter of BMX post. Discovering the joys of French threads on my Peugot being uniquely different, AFTER stripping things more than once. Ah, good times.

You're spot-on regarding the trekking concept. I won't be slamming downhills any time soon, but don't want to have a completely wrong setup for the few occasions where a nice trail is part of a ride. That was part of what put me off the Delite and Homage (besides wrist discomfort). They just felt like they'd be entirely wrong off anything wilder than a cow path. No knock on what they ARE good for though, you're right about their stability/confidence for distances.

So my search for choices and finding test rides continues...

 

[TMH]

This bike model just got added to the Haibike U.S. web site today. Pretty darned good looking bike with the new fully integrated battery. Uses the Yamaha drive system, which many will tell you has some of the highest reliability of any drives on the market. Very comfortable ride position (based on my short - so far - experience on a Haibike Trekking 7.0 which I recently purchased). Definitely would have some light trail, XC chops, although I might remove the fenders for that (I don't much like fenders anyway). I think that the asking price is reasonable, especially for all you get with a Haibike product.

https://www.haibikeusa.com/sduro/adventure/trekking/sduro-trekking-4-0-4609.html

The Trekking 7.0 I recently purchased was cheaper since it was a 2019 model and I don't believe is being brought to the U.S. in 2020. I liked its spec, and the fact that it would be easy to 'tune' (remove the 20mph pedal assist cap) with a PearTune chip. But you can tune the Yamaha motor as well with a chip from the same company (as long as you are not too worried about likely invalidating your drive system's manufacturer warranty). You can see the difference between the 'PowerPack' battery placement on my bike's frame and the integrated battery in the above bike.

I will have to say that I was so pleasantly surprised by the Haibike Trekking's comfort and performance that I ordered a second one for my wife yesterday. These Haibikes will be taking the place of a Felt Sport-e 50 and a Bulls Cross E Diamond which we usually ride on our 'off' days, taking it easy between harder rides. The Haibikes will be more comfortable (especially with the larger tires absorbing many of the little road bumps) and will generally provide more torque (especially as compared to the Bulls).

I've quickly become a convert to these trekking bikes as really great all 'rounders.

I purchased them through eBikes 508 but it won't do you too much good as it seems I bought the last XL frame size in stock (suitable for ~6'2"-6'5" tall riders). They do have the Large sizes in stock but they might be just too small for you (suitable for ~5'11"-6'2"). But the new 4.0 should be available in all sizes, and maybe even possible to test ride.

 

[wkearney99]

Same boat here...same place a few months ago, turning 63 in a few days. Fifty years of dirtbikes and now too old to do it safely any longer. Getting into mountain biking is like a youth-renewal.

You might glean some valuable info on our eMTB thread over here: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/emtb-options-for-2020.32057/

Yes, I've been reading that thread and trying to learn before commenting further.

 

[smorgasbord]

Sounds like you're going to swap handlebars no matter what bike you choose. Whether you go with something mild, like a 16 degree backsweep bar from SQ-Lab or a full 45 degree "moustache" bar is up to you. You may also want to replace the stem with a high angle stem, like the Ergotech Charisma 45 degree stem. You may find you need to replace brake hoses with longer ones and may even need some electric cable extensions depending on how far you go. I don't know what you mean by non-standard sizes - which bikes are you looking at that don't support the standard 1&⅛" fork stems and 30.8mm handlebar attachments?

You have to figure out a price point and what's important/not important to you. It seems you care about the weight of the bike, which means you'll lean towards carbon fiber rather than aluminum. A Biktrix Juggernaut FS Ultra, for instance, will weigh close to 75 pounds whereas the YT Decoy Comp will be about 52 pounds. Is range important? If you're doing 10 miles of off-road you need less battery than if you're doing 40 miles on-road.

Since you're a big person, I think you should be looking at 29" wheels. The larger wheels help bottom bracket height and also help rolling over obstacles off-road. Fat tires are mostly for fun, or snow or sand. For regular off-roading the standardish 2.25" - 3.0" tire widths are the most popular.

 

[wkearney99]

This bike model just got added to the Haibike U.S. web site today. Pretty darned good looking bike with the new fully integrated battery. Uses the Yamaha drive system, which many will tell you has some of the highest reliability of any drives on the market. Very comfortable ride position (based on my short - so far - experience on a Haibike Trekking 7.0 which I recently purchased). Definitely would have some light trail, XC chops, although I might remove the fenders for that (I don't much like fenders anyway). I think that the asking price is reasonable, especially for all you get with a Haibike product.

https://www.haibikeusa.com/sduro/adventure/trekking/sduro-trekking-4-0-4609.html

I've quickly become a convert to these trekking bikes as really great all 'rounders.

I purchased them through eBikes 508 but it won't do you too much good as it seems I bought the last XL frame size in stock (suitable for ~6'2"-6'5" tall riders). They do have the Large sizes in stock but they might be just too small for you (suitable for ~5'11"-6'2"). But the new 4.0 should be available in all sizes, and maybe even possible to test ride.

It's always something. By the time my interest/research starts narrowing in on the right choices... they're gone.

I've been hearing noises of Haibike leaving the US market. I'm leery of having a warranty for all the electrics and not being able to get factory support. Granted, most of the stuff is 'standard' but there's still questions like frame replacements and such. Though it's been years since I managed to flail a bike so hard as to break a frame, but defects do happen.

 

[wkearney99]

Sounds like you're going to swap handlebars no matter what bike you choose. Whether you go with something mild, like a 16 degree backsweep bar from SQ-Lab or a full 45 degree "moustache" bar is up to you. You may also want to replace the stem with a high angle stem, like the Ergotech Charisma 45 degree stem. You may find you need to replace brake hoses with longer ones and may even need some electric cable extensions depending on how far you go. I don't know what you mean by non-standard sizes - which bikes are you looking at that don't support the standard 1&⅛" fork stems and 30.8mm handlebar attachments?

You have to figure out a price point and what's important/not important to you. It seems you care about the weight of the bike, which means you'll lean towards carbon fiber rather than aluminum. A Biktrix Juggernaut FS Ultra, for instance, will weigh close to 75 pounds whereas the YT Decoy Comp will be about 52 pounds. Is range important? If you're doing 10 miles of off-road you need less battery than if you're doing 40 miles on-road.

Since you're a big person, I think you should be looking at 29" wheels. The larger wheels help bottom bracket height and also help rolling over obstacles off-road. Fat tires are mostly for fun, or snow or sand. For regular off-roading the standardish 2.25" - 3.0" tire widths are the most popular.

Excellent coverage of the points, thank you.

Yes, being able to swap bars without being hemmed in by proprietary setups is important. It's hard to describe what positions work best, and I've tried just about ALL angles. The swept back position of cruisers is NEVER comfortable. The end result usually includes having more than one position, so I can avoid pain creeping back. It's hard to describe what happens, as it's not cramping, at least not as how most folks would think of it. Just that either wrist kept in a fixed position, in tension, usually makes it worse. So grabbing the brake position grip works most of the time, as long as I 'mix it up a bit' with a turn vertically onto a bar end now and then (completely ignoring the bar end's usual purpose of being an extra pulling/leverage spot). Anyway, that's a long-drawn-out way of saying having options is key for my comfort needs.

Good point about 29" height and obstacles. That's never typically been a problem though, so smaller wouldn't be unacceptable.

The fat tire drag is what concerns me most. Granted, in my 50 years of riding bikes there's been a LOT of improvements. But spinning weight and large surface areas are not typically what I'd want out of a bike I'm pedaling (or battery capacity I'm consuming). I'm expecting the typical 2.25-3" width is going to be most useful for my riding. Likewise I'm not heading out in sand or snow conditions. Mostly just dirt, gravel, and pavement. But losing it in a mud puddle with non-knobby tires is not my idea of fun, so some degree of tread grip is important.

I'm going hunt around and see if I can find some of these in-between trekking styles for test rides.

 

[BillH]

Two possible suggestions for you, and I don't own a Bulls bike but I like several models. One available now and one in August of this year. Both are Class 3 with no throttle and both are FS and seem more or less hybrid types where they would work commuting or off road.

First is the Bulls E-Stream EVO 45 AM which is available now. Brose TF 350W motor 150mm suspension. This one is more eMTB than the other model

Second is the upcoming Bulls Iconic EVO TR 1 Speed. It uses the Bosch Gen4 Performance CX motor. 120mm suspension and fenders with integrated rack.

 

[wkearney99]

Ok, had a chance to ride two Haibike models, an AllMtn 10.0 and an Nduro 8.5, but in the medium-sized frame (I didn't check what year these were, but imagine they're not the latest/greatest). The nduro had the Bosch setup, the allmtn had the Yamaha. Gotta say, I liked the Yamaha better, as it felt closer to regular biking. It had plenty of torque, at least for pushing me up some fairly steep slopes, and didn't come on as aggressively as my limited experience with the Levo (Brose) setup. Not arguing one vs the other, just noting my initial experience was nice with the Haibike/Yamaha setup. I liked the controls on the Yamaha better than the nduro's Bosch. But then I liked the Kiox Bosch setup on the RM Delite (just not the rest of the bike). But then I've seen varied negatives on the Kiox, so.... ugh, SO MANY VARIABLES to consider!

I preferred the riding dynamics of the mountain vs nduro. It's a subtle difference, at least to my completely untrained mind. That and the shop had the suspension properly adjusted to handle my weight, for both of them. And by 'dynamics' I'm speaking in terms of the steering response, rake, seat/crank angle and such. If there's a correct term for this, let me know. The reach was hard to gauge as both of these were smaller than I'd probably order. It's difficult doing test drives for the larger sizes.

I'd love to try a Yamaha YDX-Torc, if just to get the hardtail experience with their motor.

 

[wkearney99]

Two possible suggestions for you, and I don't own a Bulls bike but I like several models. One available now and one in August of this year. Both are Class 3 with no throttle and both are FS and seem more or less hybrid types where they would work commuting or off road.

First is the Bulls E-Stream EVO 45 AM which is available now. Brose TF 350W motor 150mm suspension. This one is more eMTB than the other mode
Second is the upcoming Bulls Iconic EVO TR 1 Speed. It uses the Bosch Gen4 Performance CX motor. 120mm suspension and fenders with integrated rack.

That's next on my list, see if I can find some Bulls bikes in stock somewhere nearby and give them a try.

Honestly, for my needs, a Class 1 is probably fine. I'd certainly buy something faster if it wasn't an extreme price premium. I drive a Porsche Cayenne GTS, and at 440hp it's plenty fast. Moving up to 550hp to a Turbo S for $50k more made no sense. I'm not afraid to spend, just don't need to have more power just for the sake of it. Granted, the price bump for cars is considerable more than a bike, so it's not a direct comparison, but you get my drift.

But I would like to buy something within the next month or so. I have use for it now and don't fear missing out on the latest/greatest by not waiting until August. Late June... I could push... but not end of Summer.

 

[BillH]

That's next on my list, see if I can find some Bulls bikes in stock somewhere nearby and give them a try.

Honestly, for my needs, a Class 1 is probably fine. I'd certainly buy something faster if it wasn't an extreme price premium. I drive a Porsche Cayenne GTS, and at 440hp it's plenty fast. Moving up to 550hp to a Turbo S for $50k more made no sense. I'm not afraid to spend, just don't need to have more power just for the sake of it. Granted, the price bump for cars is considerable more than a bike, so it's not a direct comparison, but you get my drift.

But I would like to buy something within the next month or so. I have use for it now and don't fear missing out on the latest/greatest by not waiting until August. Late June... I could push... but not end of Summer.

I see Bulls has the Class 1 Iconic Evo TR1 Bosch Performance CX 250W in stock, 51cm frame available for you 6'-3" tall folk, on sale and coupon for extra $300 off for total $4300.

 

[Browneye]

That's next on my list, see if I can find some Bulls bikes in stock somewhere nearby and give them a try.

Honestly, for my needs, a Class 1 is probably fine. I'd certainly buy something faster if it wasn't an extreme price premium. I drive a Porsche Cayenne GTS, and at 440hp it's plenty fast. Moving up to 550hp to a Turbo S for $50k more made no sense. I'm not afraid to spend, just don't need to have more power just for the sake of it. Granted, the price bump for cars is considerable more than a bike, so it's not a direct comparison, but you get my drift.

But I would like to buy something within the next month or so. I have use for it now and don't fear missing out on the latest/greatest by not waiting until August. Late June... I could push... but not end of Summer.

I have only seen the yamaha's didn't ride them. Excellent reputation. The Torc might well be a great option if you can find one, and they may well be impossible to find, depending on your locale. I would have taken one instead of my Explore, but they were another grand for not much of anything in additional componentry or features. More similar than different. But the Yamaha is little nicer bike.

The Yamaha drive and SyncDrive as Giant calls it, is the most durable and trouble free of all of them. What you expect from the tuning-fork company...
I like them so well I ended up with three of them. I would have accepted any of the latest of the others, the brose-s, the new bosch cx, or the steps 8000 from shimano. All of them can be 'chipped' for up to 28mph if you want to give up range and warranty. They're all plenty durable enough for the higher speeds, it's just that nobody wants to admit that mod'ing a class1 to be a 3 is immoral. Well, some think so anyway. If I was riding with a fast group, or by myself on road, I would probly chip mine so I could get assist to 22-23. It's fairly easy to ride past the limiter anyway, especially downhill. But yeah, assist tapers off about 19.5mph on a C1 bike.

Haibike and BH both have a reasonably good reputation, but getting service may well prove difficult. For any ebike, most shops will only work on what they sold - if you bring another brand in there they may not even be willing to look at it - they're busy enough serving their own customers. It's just reality. So beware of how you'll get warranty service if you don't buy from your LBS.

I hear you on price vs performance value proposition...and why my Challenger is a R/T with the 5.7 - it's only 375hp. For another three or four grand you can get another 100hp. Wow. GeeWizz. Still the same car, just faster, so fast you can't drive it like that on the street anyway. Oh, and for twice the price you can get 800hp.

All of the big-3 offer a really nicely equipped 'hardtail' - that's a mountain bike without rear suspension - they are very popular for cross-country and trail type riding. And do really well on combined road and smooth trail if you put some combination tires on them. If you're not going to ride aggressive trails all offroad you may not need suspension. I lock mine out on the Trance for roading it. The gearing is quite low though, very easy to hit the rev limiter, and the tires are squishy and noisy. For any amount of road you'd want smoother tires with a little more air in them.

My bike and my car...the Giant Explore - $2300 all in. It is a very competent urban and smooth trail bike. Definitely not a mountain bike, only 60mm of travel on the fork - less than half what a MTB has. I absolutely love it. And the car.

 

[PDoz]

" ride dynamics " in advertising speak is kinematics - but we know what you mean.

I'm going to have to disagree with the 29 inch recommendation - the larger wheels struggle to cope with generously sized humans. Whilst they perform better, it's been a struggle to match strength and weight - which is why the mullet bikes run 27.5 rear / 29 front and a lot of crazy down hill riders stick with 26/27.5 wheels .

For what it's worth, brands that rate / build their bikes for generously proportioned people are R+M(oney) , T(w)REK your bank balance , and to a lesser extent giant ( mostly rated at 130 kg which is about 290 lbs) . I'd probably stay away from giant unless you are willing to upgrade the hubs - the wheel bearings and freewheel are the weak point in their 2020 range , not an issue for most people but it might be an issue if you have superhuman legs from being an active generous sized person.

If you have a trek dealer nearby, pay them a visit

 

[PDoz]

Btw, have a read of this thread

Un-Official Clydesdale Thread

I wanted to create a place here for Clydesdale riders to post about their collective experiences with EMTB ownership. I came to this forum because I want to find the right EMTB for me being a a borderline super Clyde at 6’5” 255lbs (196cm/115kg) with out riding kit. How are other the other...

www.emtbforums.com

 

[Browneye]

Pdoz pays attention - OP is 255lbs??
I would go 29'r for a pedal bike.

I'm 180. My son is 6-2, 230. I imagine he could be pretty hard on a bike.
He rode the loop last weekend wth me, he rode my Trance. I put the fork at 100, and the shock at 220, and he used it all.

The YT Decoy is a very nice product.

 

[byunbee]

That's next on my list, see if I can find some Bulls bikes in stock somewhere nearby and give them a try.

Honestly, for my needs, a Class 1 is probably fine. I'd certainly buy something faster if it wasn't an extreme price premium. I drive a Porsche Cayenne GTS, and at 440hp it's plenty fast. Moving up to 550hp to a Turbo S for $50k more made no sense. I'm not afraid to spend, just don't need to have more power just for the sake of it. Granted, the price bump for cars is considerable more than a bike, so it's not a direct comparison, but you get my drift.

But I would like to buy something within the next month or so. I have use for it now and don't fear missing out on the latest/greatest by not waiting until August. Late June... I could push... but not end of Summer.

Have you looked at Wattawagons Travalanche? It's on the expensive side (similar price to Turbo Levo, but it's in stock, top end components, and carbon frame. I doubt that you'd need more than the base 750w. Cant's hurt to check it out. If you have specific questions, you can message @pushkar, he's the owner and very active on this forum.

Travalanche Specifications

This is what makes the Travalanche an incredible machine. Carbon Fiber frame, Bafang Ultra, Archon X1 controller. and up to 3000W of power! Conquer terrain you dreamed about.

wattwagons.com

 

[wkearney99]

Have you looked at Wattawagons Travalanche?[/URL]

I've seen those mentioned in other treads, and have their website in my shopping bookmarks. But wthout a chance to get a leg over one I'm not buying anything. If I could test one locally I'd gladly give it consideration.

Return guarantees are great, but in reality they're often more trouble than they're worth. That and I don't want to waste their time and money (to say nothing of my own). I'd try a smaller frame size and order a larger one blind, which is what will likely happen with whatever I come across in a shop. But the whole thing blind? Not how I usually like to do things.

 

[wkearney99]

This bike model just got added to the Haibike U.S. web site today. Pretty darned good looking bike with the new fully integrated battery. Uses the Yamaha drive system, which many will tell you has some of the highest reliability of any drives on the market. Very comfortable ride position (based on my short - so far - experience on a Haibike Trekking 7.0 which I recently purchased). Definitely would have some light trail, XC chops, although I might remove the fenders for that (I don't much like fenders anyway). I think that the asking price is reasonable, especially for all you get with a Haibike product.

https://www.haibikeusa.com/sduro/adventure/trekking/sduro-trekking-4-0-4609.html

I've quickly become a convert to these trekking bikes as really great all 'rounders.

I purchased them through eBikes 508 but it won't do you too much good as it seems I bought the last XL frame size in stock (suitable for ~6'2"-6'5" tall riders). They do have the Large sizes in stock but they might be just too small for you (suitable for ~5'11"-6'2"). But the new 4.0 should be available in all sizes, and maybe even possible to test ride.

It's always something. By the time my interest/research starts narrowing in on the right choices... they're gone.

I've been hearing noises of Haibike leaving the US market. I'm leery of having a warranty for all the electrics and not being able to get factory support. Granted, most of the stuff is 'standard' but there's still questions like frame replacements and such. Though it's been years since I managed to flail a bike so hard as to break a frame, but defects do happen.

 

[TMH]

O.K., now I can't tell any more whether you are getting closer to, or further from your e-bike purchase!

It is a wonderful time we live in to have so many excellent choices available to us. But it sure does make the decision-making process so much more complex.

One thing to consider (at least if you are anything like me - fortunately most folks aren't), this probably won't be your only or last e-bike purchase. Don't try too awfully hard to make sure you get the perfect and only e-bike for you the first time out of the gate. Some things which may seem extremely important to you right now may become less so, and others which you currently don't really care about may end up being issues. And you will only determine these through miles on the bike(s).

So you, like many of us, are faced with potentially making a pretty expensive decision without having all of the data you wish you had. But at a point you will likely have to make that purchase decision based on some (too little) seat time on demo bikes, and also on some estimations.

But we are already burning days in the Spring riding season...