Wave E-bike 499$ (another Storm/Indiegogo)
- Thread starter Kaldeem
- Start date
AaronB
New Member
George- I am one of the founders of the Wave eBike and just want to address all these concerns. We started the campaign with a few details missing, but quickly added on info regarding the warranty which we also extended from 30 days (which is what Sondors offers) to a full year. Basically, if anything breaks on the bike due to fault other than your own, we will ship the new replacement part within the first year.
In regards to local pickup, you are partially correct in that they are drop shipped and will be for the most part, unless we setup a distribution center/local pickup in Los Angeles, which we are actually working on since we have such a huge interest from people in SoCal for this bike. Either way, the total "all in" cost of $698 for an electric bike with a 48V12Ah battery is a pretty good deal. Clearly the only way we can get the pricing down so low is if we get enough orders altogether at once, so hopefully we can make this thing happen!
FYI- Since enough people made this same suggestion regarding the rack, we are going to adjust the rack so that it looks more "normal/typical" and will be parallel to the ground rather than angled. (our initial reason for this was to just be a little different, but we have to go with what people want!)
-We still have the 2nd battery option "Upgraded Mega Battery" for $45
-I like your comment/concerns and just curious as to what else we can add to the campaign page content that you would think help mitigate any concerns and help us out?
George S.
Well-Known Member
It's good to know that people doing these crowdfunders are making the rounds, not working through PR outfits. There was a great article on Pete's site, Electric Bike Report, about how quickly the Chinese ebike factories are upgrading to the higher standards. At the same time, crowdfunding offers people a way to offer products without tons of capital. It's always going to be a mixed bag, good and bad. The more we know, the more we can have some trust. It is risky, or riskier. The market for cruisers probably skews older, where a step through might help.
I was wondering about the batteries. Honestly, you include a battery that a lot of kit companies sell for $700 or more, but it's hard to compare without knowing what kinds of cells you are using. Selling hand-made packs for $700 isn't helping the industry.
I think the Rad Rover has given a lot of detail, Samsung cells, for their pack. I'm not sure what you can do at your price point. There are several ways to go and the battery is a big part of the package.
It seems like a very reasonable bike. The Shocke over on KS, was another basic bike, which did OK. I think a lot of ebikers wonder why ebikes never enter the mainstream. Nobody knows they are out there, or how well they work. Do you think you can get the quality, for the bike and the battery, at your price point? It would make ebikes much more accessible.
Best of luck!
I was wondering about the batteries. Honestly, you include a battery that a lot of kit companies sell for $700 or more, but it's hard to compare without knowing what kinds of cells you are using. Selling hand-made packs for $700 isn't helping the industry.
I think the Rad Rover has given a lot of detail, Samsung cells, for their pack. I'm not sure what you can do at your price point. There are several ways to go and the battery is a big part of the package. It seems like a very reasonable bike. The Shocke over on KS, was another basic bike, which did OK. I think a lot of ebikers wonder why ebikes never enter the mainstream. Nobody knows they are out there, or how well they work. Do you think you can get the quality, for the bike and the battery, at your price point? It would make ebikes much more accessible.
Best of luck!
JRA
Well-Known Member
I agree with Lenny. Under $2k is a good price point to shoot for, although that will only buy you a mid price mt. or road bike without a motor. Getting to that price point is not easy or else it would be the norm rather than the exception. At least for sale in retail shops.
However by the time a real bike company, that has brick and mortar dealers, bikes get to the customer there are upcharges, and fair ones too I might add, that the CSF campaigns don't have to deal with. Basically what is happening is that these campaigns cut out the middle man, like Crazy Lenny ( who i don't think is really crazy).
I alluded to this in another post in that the success and popularity of e bikes in the EU has matured based on shops selling and servicing the brands that they carry and the brands in turn support the shops with quality equipment, warranties and parts to service the warranties. This model is proven and although the prices seem high compared to the CSF model you get a more secure purchase I feel.
The EU bikes that are coming here are a result of the more mature market and their pricing reflects that. The systems they use are well developed and backed by the support of not only the bike manufacturers but the e component manufacturers as well. For instance Bosch would not even allow bike companies here to sell their mid drives in the US until they had a plan in place to be able to service their product.
Perhaps companies like Wave will be able to grow from their success at CSF but they will be destined to always have to sell Alibaba type bikes online direct. Not a bad model for them but not always the best for the end consumer. Especially if there are any warranty issues. Really low budget offerings like the Sondors have no hope of surviving past their initial offering, if they can even survive that. But the companies like the ones listed in the sponsor header below will carry on because. although they charge more up front for their products, they are better equipped to service the back end of their sales.
Getting to that price point is not easy or else it would be the norm rather than the exception. At least for sale in retail shops. However by the time a real bike company, that has brick and mortar dealers, bikes get to the customer there are upcharges, and fair ones too I might add, that the CSF campaigns don't have to deal with. Basically what is happening is that these campaigns cut out the middle man, like Crazy Lenny ( who i don't think is really crazy).
I alluded to this in another post in that the success and popularity of e bikes in the EU has matured based on shops selling and servicing the brands that they carry and the brands in turn support the shops with quality equipment, warranties and parts to service the warranties. This model is proven and although the prices seem high compared to the CSF model you get a more secure purchase I feel.
The EU bikes that are coming here are a result of the more mature market and their pricing reflects that. The systems they use are well developed and backed by the support of not only the bike manufacturers but the e component manufacturers as well. For instance Bosch would not even allow bike companies here to sell their mid drives in the US until they had a plan in place to be able to service their product.
Perhaps companies like Wave will be able to grow from their success at CSF but they will be destined to always have to sell Alibaba type bikes online direct. Not a bad model for them but not always the best for the end consumer. Especially if there are any warranty issues. Really low budget offerings like the Sondors have no hope of surviving past their initial offering, if they can even survive that. But the companies like the ones listed in the sponsor header below will carry on because. although they charge more up front for their products, they are better equipped to service the back end of their sales.
pxpaulx
Well-Known Member
Picking out a small segment of your post! I think in the US there will eventually be a tipping point. It is kind of similar to fat bikes in a way (similar timing too). I bought my fat bike late last summer from bikes direct - even in MN I've never seen a lot of them around...until this year (including the winter). All of a sudden I stopped into one of the local shops after I'd received my bike and low and behold the sales floor was riddled with them (seriously, about 75% of the inventory, probably 60-80 fat bikes setup in the shop, they were everywhere!). Never had I seen so many all in one shop like that.
I think the same thing will happen with E-bikes, they will hit a tipping point that is a combination of perceived value - where it can take you, and at what cost.
Matthew Kreger
Member
I bought the Kickstarter Dillenger Cheetah folding bike. Yesterday I got an email that it shipped and UPS has it arriving next week. Always assumed it would be underwhelming but a pretty cheap entry to try out an e-bike. I paid $442 for it, including panniers, extra battery and shipping, so I hope I can get most of that back reselling it locally. I also bought a cheap pedal forward bike thinking I'd do a conversion but have been fence sitting about the choices and my own DIY issues. The Wave looks like it may be a good option for me, especially if they add the six speed gears along the way.
Matthew Kreger
Member
I've funded a couple of things on KS successfully but been burned by Indiegogo so I'm not real crazy about doing business through them. I funded an Indiegogo campaign that was a known (to them) third repeat of a scam. I'm going to be very wary about doing it again and as such can't post a question on the site. So if you're still following here, AaronB, I'd appreciate hearing from you on the following:
Any thoughts on V brakes having sufficient stopping power for 350 pounds (the rated max 300# rider plus 50# bike) at 28mph?
Is the throttle variable or just on/off?
Any thoughts on V brakes having sufficient stopping power for 350 pounds (the rated max 300# rider plus 50# bike) at 28mph?
Is the throttle variable or just on/off?
Most people can't afford expensive eBikes, as many would have to purchase 2 of them... People can afford $1000 bikes if they really want to. Crowdfunding is delivering products people want.
There are far too many hands and mouths to feed between manufacturing and retail customer to build a $1000 eBike that people want to buy.. That's why crowdfunding is so attractive.
Sondors might become the best selling eBike of all time.. And it all happened before one customer actually rode one.
There are far too many hands and mouths to feed between manufacturing and retail customer to build a $1000 eBike that people want to buy.. That's why crowdfunding is so attractive.
Sondors might become the best selling eBike of all time.. And it all happened before one customer actually rode one.
pxpaulx
Well-Known Member
Perhaps in the US yes, but I'm quite sure in Europe, China and elsewhere overseas there are bikes that have sold much more. If the plant Sondors has the capacity to make 12-14K bikes in a production run, the Sondors bike will definitely not have been the first one to do so!
flymeaway
Well-Known Member
On Sonders bike...
LOL...I'm still trying to get over the "co-founder" being referred to as: Manufacturing Fulfillment Genius. Caveat emptor comes immediately to mind. Don't know much about crowd funding, but this looks like a typical business pre-selling a product in an attempt to gain volume discounts. It's a technique as old as product marketing. From a "funders" perspective it's like Christmas....a surprise when you open the box, assuming the box does arrive.
LOL...I'm still trying to get over the "co-founder" being referred to as: Manufacturing Fulfillment Genius. Caveat emptor comes immediately to mind. Don't know much about crowd funding, but this looks like a typical business pre-selling a product in an attempt to gain volume discounts. It's a technique as old as product marketing. From a "funders" perspective it's like Christmas....a surprise when you open the box, assuming the box does arrive.
flymeaway
Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that there are over 200 million electric bikes in use in China...so I would agree that 12K in a production run is peanuts. To supply 200 million bikes there are probably factories that churn out those many every day.
AaronB
New Member
Good stuff, Matthew. I have had a couple people just under 300 pounds (I have some big friends I guess) ride the bike up to about 26 mph, but I never asked them to slam on the brakes, but they were riding along the beach and had to slow down for groups of cyclists in front of them and they had no problem slowing down. You bring up a good point though that the V brakes aren't necessarily designed to perform well enough to brake super hard and come to an abrupt stop when going max speed (26-28mph) and with that much momentum of someone 300-350 lbs. I would definitely get a feel for the bike before blasting around the city at top speed!
The throttle is definitely variable (on/off throttles are awful and I don't know why any company even manufactures such a thing).
pxpaulx
Well-Known Member
Their last update indicates they had a featured article on yahoo's homepage. I don't know what to think of that to be honest - I guess a $500 (plus shipping) e-bike really does sell if it is put in front of a wide enough audience.
Matthew Kreger
Member
Time was running out to get the $499 bike, so I bit. Kills me to send money Indiegogo's way, but this is about as close to what I was looking for I've seen for under $3K. If they offer a geared version it will be pretty much just what I was looking for. 48V 15.4Ah battery and 750W motor, crank forward frame, delivered under $800.
pxpaulx
Well-Known Member
where does it say the battery is 15.4ah? i will have to read through it again. Nevermind, i did find the spec, it is only 12ah by the way! To me, the battery is what gives me pause with this campaign. a battery that size from em3ev, a known reputable dealer using brand name batteries costs almost as much as this entire bike. granted the rest of the bike is nothing to write home about, so i guess maybe in the end it isnt so implausible.
i doubt they'll be making a geared version, as that would require a different motor to fit in the same rear spacing, or a different spec frame, plus additional components. not sure why, like the sondors bike, they also opted for a single speed, doesnt make sense to me on any ebike really.
i doubt they'll be making a geared version, as that would require a different motor to fit in the same rear spacing, or a different spec frame, plus additional components. not sure why, like the sondors bike, they also opted for a single speed, doesnt make sense to me on any ebike really.
George S.
Well-Known Member
That must be it. BGR to Yahoo. I hope the RadRover people know someone with a tech website.
Not sure if EBR could ever be a clearing forum for CF bikes, with both sides of the story. I notice EBR stuff shows up a lot in certain Google searches.
pxpaulx
Well-Known Member
That must be it. BGR to Yahoo. I hope the RadRover people know someone with a tech website.
Not sure if EBR could ever be a clearing forum for CF bikes, with both sides of the story. I notice EBR stuff shows up a lot in certain Google searches.
Pretty sure they would just have to say write us an article and here is the check! I hope they do something similar as well, of the recent bike offerings on indiegogo imho they have the most well thought out bike being offered, even of you weren't specifically looking for a fat electric.
Matthew Kreger
Member
the 15.4Ah battery is a $45 upgrade. I included that and the $35 charger upgrade in my math.
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