Wave E-bike 499$ (another Storm/Indiegogo)

[bcsteeve]

bcsteeve, It sure feels like your post is a classic sort of 'inside job'. Why would you just happen to be posting a defense of these guys if you weren't a contributor or a friend of theirs? The fact is, putting a campaignon Indiegogo does not mean you can just go and steal money from people.

You have your opinions, and I have mine. Yours are just stupid. I mean the bit accusing me of being an "insider". That's just a fool's comment. Focus on your matter at hand, not at lashing out on whoever posts. "Why" would I post? Because I got a notification to a forum I subscribed to a month or more ago, and I was curious what was posted. I was curious about this product and I never ended up pulling the trigger (thankfully). There was a time I regretted not jumping on it, and now I'm glad I didn't. What I did at the time was a little mental risk analysis and decided because I am fully aware that there is risk with "buying" anything from a crowd-funding site that one may never EVER get their "product". Why in the world did you not access your own spending accordingly?

First off, they haven't ripped anyone off (yet). They've taken your money and appear to have every intent on delivering a product. EVERYONE knows that the details of said product may change. EVERY SINGLE ITEM ON these sites are in development. It is naive for you to assume they're going to deliver on 100% of their goals.

But even if they don't deliver a thing... even if they leave you all 100% high and dry. Good bloody luck doing anything about it because they haven't done anything wrong unless you can PROVE (and I mean in the real sense with courts and juries and such) that they did so with intent on never delivering. You can't do that. They, on the other hand, can prove they went to China, had discussions with suppliers, etc... ie. they followed the American dream and gave it a shot. American culture says anyone can try to make a buck. It doesn't say anything about succeeding at it.

Suck it up and move on. The more headaches you give these guys at this point (when they still haven't done anything wrong), the more likely it is that they can't deliver.

Unsubscribed. I have no skin in this game at all.

 

[Spaceman]

Looks like it might be using some parts my Yukon Explorer is using. My Yukon E bike has been running nice and going
far. No problems at all with this bike. I was looking at the Wave as a second bake to play with but not sure.
I would like to find another bike for say 50 mile range but might just carry another battery with me on the rack
and have more range that way too.

 

[Matthew Kreger]

Even after being burned by Indiegogo before I went against my best judgement and funded this one at the $499 level. I liked that the guy came on here and answered questions, and how they optioned up with things people asked for and got this pretty close to the bike I've been looking for. I am not surprised by the delays, not even surprised by the Samsung switcharoo. I'm sure they got on the ground and found out things weren't everything they expected them to be, and I don't expect they built in such spectacularly wide margins that they can just absorb every cost increase sprung on them by the manufacturers and shippers. I hope they really are going to issue refunds to folks outside of North America who they have decided they can't ship product to. Not sure how much IGG sucks out of each transaction, but I'm sure they don't make it easy to give people their money back.

What really disappoints me is the lying in this latest update. Saying that federal shipping regulations change every month and that Samsung can't meet the regulations and documentation but brandY can and is just as good is such obvious complete BS. Why not be honest? Yes there are a bunch of trolls and whiners that will scream bloody murder when you say you've discovered you can't deliver what you promised when you promised it with Samsung cells. But the trolls and whiners are going to scream regardless. Deal with the adults in the room above board and they'll most likely battle the trolls for you so you can keep trying to deliver the best product you can with what you've got.

 

[AaronB]

Even after being burned by Indiegogo before I went against my best judgement and funded this one at the $499 level. I liked that the guy came on here and answered questions, and how they optioned up with things people asked for and got this pretty close to the bike I've been looking for. I am not surprised by the delays, not even surprised by the Samsung switcharoo. I'm sure they got on the ground and found out things weren't everything they expected them to be, and I don't expect they built in such spectacularly wide margins that they can just absorb every cost increase sprung on them by the manufacturers and shippers. I hope they really are going to issue refunds to folks outside of North America who they have decided they can't ship product to. Not sure how much IGG sucks out of each transaction, but I'm sure they don't make it easy to give people their money back.

What really disappoints me is the lying in this latest update. Saying that federal shipping regulations change every month and that Samsung can't meet the regulations and documentation but brandY can and is just as good is such obvious complete BS. Why not be honest? Yes there are a bunch of trolls and whiners that will scream bloody murder when you say you've discovered you can't deliver what you promised when you promised it with Samsung cells. But the trolls and whiners are going to scream regardless. Deal with the adults in the room above board and they'll most likely battle the trolls for you so you can keep trying to deliver the best product you can with what you've got.

Matthew- Thank you for funding us and your kind words. It's disappointing to see so many people upset from what we didn't think was a major issue when we decided to make the changes that we made, however, in the end, we never changed the end product that anyone will receive in terms of performance. Yes, sure, you will have to unplug a wire to allow the bike to to 28 MPH vs. 20 MPH, but that was part of the learning curve for us. I'm not sure why people doubt the increased number of regulations with lithium-ion batteries as this information came directly from FedEx. Anyone can contact FedEx or the United Nations directly to see which regulations are in effect and at what time and you will see that it's not uncommon for new regulations to pop up several times throughout the year after several recent events happening with lithiim-ion batteries. We have never lied at any point throughout our campaign, and in fact, we have done our best to be as transparent as possible. What is really disappointing is that had we not been transparent and simply communicated delay without any reason, that we would have probably received much less backlash. Similarly, had we never communicated an issue with International orders and our plan to refund all International orders until August or later, we wouldn't have had as much backlash (assuming we could process the refunds quickly in August after figuring out how to do so throughout that entire time). It seems like the more transparent we are in explaining delays or changes, the more people assume it is "BS". It's really unfortunate because all this does is motivates businesses to be short and simple without any explanation, but that's not how we like doing things. We aren't happy with some of the changes required outside of our control, but it's really disheartening to hear people accuse us of lying when we've been working so hard to get orders out on time in this crowd-funding campaign, which is an industry well-known for long delays in shipments.

 

[Matthew Kreger]

Sorry, federal regulations didn't change every month. But I have no doubt you are getting new and probably different and conflicting information far more frequently than that. And I am sure you guys are busting your tails WAY more than you ever expected to to get this done, so carry on and best luck.

 

[George S.]

Who needs these campaigns?

When you pull the wire, it's your legal liability.

Everyone knows there are grades of batteries. No one prefers Chinese cells over Samsung.

The budget was too low. Wave didn't know the laws and regs.

 

[Mike Hellerson]

It took the promise of small claims court for me to obtain my refund. I agreed to settle less 7% for Paypal fees, etc. I started a group on Facebook to serve as a resource center for those seeking a refund. It's named Wave Electric Bike Refund Resource Group. I hope it helps.

Why are their so many negative posts? Isn't this a crowdfunding campaign? What do people expect? I ordered a Wave just like everyone else expecting some delays just like every other campaign Ive seen.

 

[PowerMe]

LOL @Mike Hellerson. If you think this is a lot of negative posts... you might find the the waters much deeper on the Sonders threads.

 

[Wes Gordon]

LOL @Mike Hellerson. If you think this is a lot of negative posts... you might find the the waters much deeper on the Sonders threads.

At least sondors has some bikes in peoples hands, but your right...the comments on the Sondors indiegogo are a bit crazier.

 

[Henchman]

I see Dave is spreading his rants elsewhere now.
Anybody who has been involved with any kind of crowdfunding knows that schedules are very fluid.
I'm glad Dave and his incessant OCD rants were kicked off of the wave facebook page.
People like Dave thrive on negativity and trashtalking.

 

[Henchman]

PayPal fixed my account in 3 days, because I was in the right. Then, to my surprise and without prompt, they refunded the remaining $70, because it was wrong for Aaron to keep it.

I hope you all get your bikes.

P.S. I'll be seeking out more info on the 2014 Currie Izip E3 Path+. I highly recommend it.

Yeah. Have fun with that for $2400

 

[Henchman]

Thanks. It has been awesome! Got the revised "326" motor found in the 2015 models. Performance Bicycles had it on sale(still is) for $1800 and I paid $30 for a club card and instantly received ($180) 10% back in store credit. Excellent deal. Most of all, I'm pleased to have a service center so close.

Well, I got two bikes for a lot less than that by going the wave route.

 

[Ann M.]

Glad to hear you got the $$$ issues worked out @eclipsedave , there's a right bike for everyone and it sounds like you found yours. We have an Izip Forum on EBR, too so you can share your pics and comments about the bike there.

 

[Zdroid]

I purchased 2 Wave bikes way back when they were $499 upgraded to 2 high power Samsung battery packs and have posted my thoughts on IGG and Wave Owners Facebook page. They seem to make statements that they later do not support attributing them to crowdfunding and an exemption from consumer laws of the state of California according to their business partner Indiegogo's business model.

Having missed their delivery target by several months ‘do to United Nations interference with commerce between nations’ I was wondering what might be left to interpretation by them. So at their IGG board I asked what might be a simple question can we see the warranty in black and white as a PDF. Remembering this campaign’s time table stated we would be riding by now. Between a PhD and a marketing genesis this was their response:


“The warranty doc is not ready yet…”


Returning to their IGG page one can see the warranty spelled out in 31 words. We are so confident in our Wave eBike that we’ve extended the warranty from a 30-day warranty to a full ONE YEAR!


“This means that if any parts break due to non-human error during your first year of ownership, we will happily send you brand new replacement parts at no cost to you!”


So, my questions to them were how would we trouble shoot a bike that once charged was dead on delivery or during the year stopped running, who pays the freight for warranty parts, would we be expected to send suspected parts back or just order more parts from Wave. A big point is contributors have raised the issue of moisture and the Wave team has stood by their response of no problems riding in the rain just don’t submerge it in water. Now when asked about water damage as human error they were not prepared to respond to my simple question.


I have had swings in supporting this campaign and commenting about being accurate with the customer base. I was the one who insisted on them stating which type of Samsung cells were we getting, wrote it in standard Chinese when they went to chin to meet with their manufacture who undoubtedly is listed at Alibaba, which fell on deaf ears until the United Nations intervened. I hope this concern is baseless and without merit but a lot of folks have given close to a million dollars to this campaign and to date the facts are like oil on water.

 

[cooljellow]

So I'm an e-bike stalker. Every morning, noon and night I'm on EBR, YouTube, FB, etc checking out "e-bikes" and mainly it's the same ole stuff. However today I found that a "New" e-bike is coming out tomorrow. Here are the specs listed and the price is pretty ridiculous.

Has anyone heard about this e-bike? Feels like Indigogo and Storm all over again

These guys are not reputable by the fact that they refuse to refund the customer even if requested within a day or two after purchase. They say it's your mistake, and proudly state that they've never lost a dispute claim with a customer. Not the type of people I would want to do business with.

 

[Lowquality]

$200 shipping seems pretty damn high :|

 

[JoePah]

When are people going to learn the truth about crowdfunded eBikes?

You really have no rights as a consumer because youre a backer not a customer.

You shouldn't pay any more money than you are willing to lose.

There is an abundance of ebike crowdfunding history and most if it is disappointing.. Sondors is a success story because they delivered a bike on schdule, pretty much.

You're dealing with first of a kind builders and first of a kind businessmen.. They are probably just inexperienced or incompetent, but not dishonest.

You're going to make yourself miserable expecting too much.

 

[Ann M.]

Actually, $200 shipping is fairly normal for a large ebike with lithium battery. Have had to ship many across the US and the pricing is generally based on the what is referred to as dimensional weight; a combo of the dimensions of an oversized box and its actual weight together with what classification that the item inside the box fits.

 

[jazz]

There are several wave purchasers who have resorted to Paypal chargebacks to get their money back

 

[kaboomaboom]

anybody received the wave electric bike? trying to find some reviews. thanks