Gee_Whiz
Active Member
DAMN sexy bike and great post!!
Watt Wagon direct competitors?
- Thread starter Gee_Whiz
- Start date
Ebiker33
Well-Known Member
How comfortable is that Ebike compared to a R & M with a full suspension, your WW with a suspension seat post and fat tires?
I dont know if comparing hardtail to a FS is ideal. However I'd be curious to know as well. The specs on the WW are top notch so it might be a lot closer.
Ebiker33
Well-Known Member
Yes but going from around 2.5" tires with full suspension, to a hardtail with 4" tires with suspension seat post, I heard was almost the same for comfort, but every Ebike is different.
This is why you see some EBR members switch their suspension front forks to solid ones with their fatties and they say they are still comfortable. Fat tires seem to have a very strong mitigating factor against impacts, especially at the correct PSI.
I have both full suspension mountain bikes and more recently a Juiced Ripcurrent S with Kinekt Seatpost. The hardtail with 4" fat tires and good suspension seat post falls pretty short of the comfort of a full suspension. The Kinekt is by far the best suspension seat post I have tried and makes a HUGE difference over a rigid seat post but it can't make up for all the unsprung weight and a good dampening rear suspension with much more travel. The whole bike will reverberate over bumps through the pedals, the rear tire can lose traction if your not careful due to it bouncing which is what R&M talk about with "control technology". The 4" air tires absorb more than smaller tires but its not dramatic to me if you have them with decent psi for road efficiency and its not dampened so they tend to feel very bouncy.
So I am lurking here anxiously waiting to see what kind of FS mid-drive Watt Wagons comes up with and looking closely at R&M and other FS e-bikes as my next one will for sure be FS mid drive for comfort and control and performance.
Ebiker33
Well-Known Member
Thanks for your input on the question, good to know.
But WW has a FS Ebike here, you don't have to wait you can buy it now.
Of coarse we have that new thread with brand new Ebike coming too.
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Taylor57
Well-Known Member
What bike are you waiting on Reed?Yeah. I almost always peruse this site on my Mac. Check out some of the photo and route posts. Some great photography. I browse by 'recent activity' mostly and see just about all that goes on here. This is probably due to my severe jonseing while waiting for my ebike delivery.
reed scott
Well-Known Member
My rebadged Frey AM 1000 from Bolton which Kyle says is on the water headed this way. And the grey Wattwagon with 2.8" tires Pushkar showed tonight. That's my bike you know. riiiiiighhhttt
Actually I'm going to get my Wattwagon in killer dark olive green.
Jayaznpride
Member
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- USA
Jeep E-Bike
The Jeep E-Bike is designed to conquer technical off-road terrain including soft sand, snow, and hardpacked, rocky trails. Learn more.
The Quietkat Jeep Bike was one of the bikes I wanted.This bike is made from Frey for Quietkat. MSRP $5,899.00. Speaking on just the main parts of interest to me unrestricted throttle to 1000w, metal frame, 26x4.8 tires and a dropper it comes out to $6,327.00. Compared to the QuietKat Jeep Bike you can spec the Hydra with similiar specifications, 1000w, get a carbon frame, larger battery, more gears, and save more money than Quietkat. I am assuming a lot of cost was using the Jeep name.
Couldn't agree with you more. The Hydra has another advantage of getting the new controller- which is miles better as well. Overall a fantastic price point for those who want a more modern alternative. I also believe the weight is significantly better too.The Quietkat Jeep Bike was one of the bikes I wanted.This bike is made from Frey for Quietkat. MSRP $5,899.00. Speaking on just the main parts of interest to me unrestricted throttle to 1000w, metal frame, 26x4.8 tires and a dropper it comes out to $6,327.00. Compared to the QuietKat Jeep Bike you can spec the Hydra with similiar specifications, 1000w, get a carbon frame, larger battery, more gears, and save more money than Quietkat. I am assuming a lot of cost was using the Jeep name.Jeep E-Bike
The Jeep E-Bike is designed to conquer technical off-road terrain including soft sand, snow, and hardpacked, rocky trails. Learn more.quietkat.com
Based on what I see so far for an Ultra FS bike, Hydra pretty much leads the pack. I have compared it to the Luna models, biktrix, Bikonit, boltonebikes, etc etc.. just absolutely no comparison.
I have already purchased a helios - that's the bike for my needs. If I had the financial bandwidth, I would absolutely jump on the hydra.
sisyphus
Member
reed scott
Well-Known Member
sisyphus, Good question but MTB bike riders don't put comfort at the top of their list of requirements usually. I know I don't. I don't want an uncomfortable bike but I'm not ready to sit straight up like I'm riding a chair either. 
Give me five or ten years or some health problems and I probably will be however.
Give me five or ten years or some health problems and I probably will be however.
sisyphus
Member
Oddly, that's not an easy question to answer. because they're so different. Here's how I'd put it. The WW with 4" tires (regardless of what brand) and the seat post suspension is a VERY CUSHY ride. It's a softer ride than my full suspension FLX. I ride over everything like it was nothing.
That said, the R & M is.... like wow. Like you get the feel of fat tires w/o fat tires. But it's more than that; it's a feeling like no other bike. BUT, the R&M motor is lackluster, and there's no throttle.
Courtney, the awesome guy that runs RBR said his fav bike doesn't exist. It would be an R&M with a throttle and a 1000W+ motor. So, if you want a beautiful bike for thousands more, that gives you a gentile amazing ride on moderate size tires, but you still have to peddle all the time and still takes work up steep hills, go for an R&M. But if you want a bike that takes you up a hill, peddle or don't, and is REALLY cushy like an A+ to R&M's A++, go for a WW.
It will be a few years before someone blends the two. In the meantime, it comes down to this: do you want R&M's really refined slightly underpowered ride. Or do you want the same Rohloff/Gates tech on a fantastic bike that gives you more power than you will ever need. (Nice controller too - which is about = to R&M, and tons better than all other bikes I've ridden, and REALLY important.).
No judgement. I just love the "HOLY S**T factor I get from my WW that you won't quite get from an R&M.
That said, the R & M is.... like wow. Like you get the feel of fat tires w/o fat tires. But it's more than that; it's a feeling like no other bike. BUT, the R&M motor is lackluster, and there's no throttle.
Courtney, the awesome guy that runs RBR said his fav bike doesn't exist. It would be an R&M with a throttle and a 1000W+ motor. So, if you want a beautiful bike for thousands more, that gives you a gentile amazing ride on moderate size tires, but you still have to peddle all the time and still takes work up steep hills, go for an R&M. But if you want a bike that takes you up a hill, peddle or don't, and is REALLY cushy like an A+ to R&M's A++, go for a WW.
It will be a few years before someone blends the two. In the meantime, it comes down to this: do you want R&M's really refined slightly underpowered ride. Or do you want the same Rohloff/Gates tech on a fantastic bike that gives you more power than you will ever need. (Nice controller too - which is about = to R&M, and tons better than all other bikes I've ridden, and REALLY important.).
No judgement. I just love the "HOLY S**T factor I get from my WW that you won't quite get from an R&M.
Ebiker33
Well-Known Member
I appreciate the very detailed answer, based on your comments I think I want my next Ebike to have what doesn't exist yet, but WW is coming so close.
Fat Tire 4" plus (Actually Johnny 5 tires)
Carbon fiber frame
Suspension seat post
Step through
Gates belt
IGH
WW Ultra Bafang Motor
The WW will give me all that but the 4" plus tires, I know the front could be changed with just new forks, but the rear would be an issue.
Taylor57
Well-Known Member
Too much money. You are paying for the Jeep sticker on the downtube. Just buy a Frey and make your own Jeep sticker. Saves you 2500 buckaroosView attachment 74534Jeep E-Bike
The Jeep E-Bike is designed to conquer technical off-road terrain including soft sand, snow, and hardpacked, rocky trails. Learn more.
The Quietkat Jeep Bike was one of the bikes I wanted.This bike is made from Frey for Quietkat. MSRP $5,899.00. Speaking on just the main parts of interest to me unrestricted throttle to 1000w, metal frame, 26x4.8 tires and a dropper it comes out to $6,327.00. Compared to the QuietKat Jeep Bike you can spec the Hydra with similiar specifications, 1000w, get a carbon frame, larger battery, more gears, and save more money than Quietkat. I am assuming a lot of cost was using the Jeep name.
reed scott
Well-Known Member
That was my plan. Although a Bacou bike was involved rather than Quietkat. Bacou has a better bike than QK but it's too heavy and geared too low. My Frey AM 1000 rebadge from Bolton is ready for pickup at the 'local' terminal this Monday.
And of course I should have my Hydra in a couple months.
B
BarryS
Guest
Sizing is disappointing 19 inches and 17 ? Is the average person getting smaller ?
pushkar
Well-Known Member
Umm.. it is a trail geometry so the reach is significantly longer. With trail geometry, bikes will range from 5'1 to 6'4".
I looked at the height/ gender chart from the 2010 census here- https://www2.census.gov/library/publications/2010/compendia/statab/130ed/tables/11s0205.pdf
We are covering over 96% of the adult population with our bike sizes.
We are unable to make the XL (21 or 22) size in carbon .. the demand is just not there to justify a significant investment in mold costs. We can make you one in titanium though.
reed scott
Well-Known Member
My 19" rebadged Frey AM 1000 ( 27.5 x 2.8 in tires ) is substantially larger than my XL (21.5 in seat tube) Specialized MTB having 26 x 2 in tires ) I like big bike frames but unless you are uncommonly tall ( over 6' 3' or so ) or you have freakishly long legs a 19" MTB with plus size wheels is a big bike.
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